EPTOn August 14 2010 11:56 Linden wrote:
suggestion: make it possible to get overseers with evo chamber instead of lair
suggestion: make it possible to get overseers with evo chamber instead of lair
Best solution.
Zerg scouting flaw - Page 2
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StupidFatHobbit
United States98 Posts
Best solution. | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
True. | ||
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SaikOuLighT
Canada742 Posts
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Lightswarm
Canada966 Posts
If yes, upload many replays of which this is a problem. If no, go practice some more until you are on par with pros before you complain about balance | ||
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Graven
United States314 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:52 Diablo117 wrote: I would actually like the overlord to have a speed boost ability, maybe something like the phoenix old self destruct, only you gain speed for like 5ish seconds then explode Wow, seems perfect. Completely balanced too. I'd love to hear an argument against that. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:38 Graven wrote: Wow, seems perfect. Completely balanced too. I'd love to hear an argument against that. Agreed, I like that too. It doesn't change almost anything, but allow zerg to scout walled off opponent. You are going to lose the overlord anyway (and you rightfully should, terran scan also isn't free...actually its cost is really similar to one overlord). I wonder how it would change the drop mechanics. You could drop incredibely quickly...but will you make it in time lol? | ||
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Selenium
24 Posts
What is the difference between sc1 and sc2 in terms of zerg's scouting ability? | ||
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BrightLegacy
United States56 Posts
In fact I would really love to see functioning observers from hallucinate, just to get the opportunity to see hallucinate used in more games, and to see toss builds diversify a bit. | ||
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Orangu
Canada198 Posts
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shwaffles
United States117 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:46 Selenium wrote: Btw What is the difference between sc1 and sc2 in terms of zerg's scouting ability? The difference is the maps. In BW the maps were much better balanced and solved most of the games imbalances. | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:46 Selenium wrote: Btw What is the difference between sc1 and sc2 in terms of zerg's scouting ability? Not so much a difference in scouting ability. However in SC1 zerg can manage without a tech check, however it will get steamrolled in SC2 if it isn't watching the opponent's tech. Not gonna talk about what some may think to be imba, but what we can all agree on is that zerg needs to constantly scout. | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
instead of having one speed upgrade for them both, generally once you hit lair, you NEED this scout desperatly.. since you want to know if you have to put down hydra den, build additional queens or a roach warren, a spire baneling nest .....there are tons of different responses for different information. what you dont have is 100 gas laying around for a upgrade such as OL/overseer speed, since it takes a long while to research, once its done and you gathered the needed information, you are most likely dead. which is why atleast I personally morph an overseer the instant I hit lair, unless I dont already have the all the info I need. upgrading the default OL speed or sight would mess to much with the game and is unneccesary. you hit lair, you need scouting..what do you create a unit that pre-empts cloaked units and scouts, and is almost instantly morphed....or an equally expensive upgrade that takes ages to research??? Honestly, fixing the OL speed + buffing the timer/removing the latest neural parasite nerf would fix Zerg against terran imo. Looks like small changes but they are essential, previous nerfs/buffs that seemed small have proven to be huge ingame, just look at the concusive shell upgrade. or stim research cost decrease. | ||
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BondGamer
61 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:10 TofuD wrote:That's all well and good but you realize you're sinking 200 resources into a maneuver that may not even pay off. Also, the Overlords may die before seeing anything. Especially if you manage to get caught getting into position. A scan costs 270 minerals and sees even less than what an overlord can. | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:51 TangJuice wrote: I don't think there is a problem, you can get an overseer out before any high tech units come out in sufficient numbers to scout what hes doing, but i do agree that it can be tricky and does require some deduction. Like in your scenario you should have been able to keep your drone alive long enough to see his second production building, fact or rax as the 1-1-1 im pretty sure you put the fact down right after the first rax finishes then put down gas right after fact, if rax then prob mm, if fact then either mech or banshees, if no 2nd gas but fact than some sort of big hellion play or maru hellion maybe (not too sure). This info alone will give you a decent indication of what hes doing in between the time you get an overseer out or OL speed, or simply just popping up the ramp in a lot of cases. This is the info you are missing from your scenario, did that 2nd rax go down right after the first, before or after 2nd gas, did he put the fact down right after the first rax finished and then gas or not? And yes you should be able to see these things if you run your drone around against 1 marine. If he delays things until the drone dies then thats the price hes paying to deny you info, this then gives you more time to get out your overseer to see whats up and is then the price you have to pay. Hell if your really worried about fast tech just steal his gas a bunch of times (cancel and immediately rebuild it) you get do that till he gets like 3-4 marines which is a pretty long time and is annoying a fuck. it does cost mins but again cost reward is a big part of the game. First Scout: Marine army Second scout: continue to MM Third scout: denied assumed MM siege tank Fourth scout: Fat, slow overlord is busy hauling his *** across the map Fourth scout arrives: Sees 4 banshees, then dies. | ||
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nimbim
Germany984 Posts
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vengee
Canada52 Posts
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
On August 14 2010 13:00 hadoken5 wrote: First Scout: Marine army Second scout: continue to MM Third scout: denied assumed MM siege tank Fourth scout: Fat, slow overlord is busy hauling his *** across the map Fourth scout arrives: Sees 4 banshees, then dies. You should have had your first two or three overlords rallied to the cliffs around his base to begin with. If one dies, send another to replace it ahead of time. You're not supposed to begin moving the overlord to his base when you want to scout him, lol. On August 14 2010 13:07 vengee wrote: I think something very minor needs to be done. The only way a zerg can scout banshees in ZvT is sacrificing overlord at 30 food OR running up ramp with lings and seeing 3-4 marines. Or maybe just, expect banshees after he doesn't push with a ground army for awhile? You learn to get a feel for these things. One or two spore crawlers at each hatch isn't a big deal to keep you safe. | ||
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Krychek
United States172 Posts
Zerg may have weak scouting early mid game, but its only against Terran, and in compensation you got strong scout mid-late game. | ||
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LooseMoose
United States184 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:59 BondGamer wrote: A scan costs 270 minerals and sees even less than what an overlord can. No it doesn't. And are you crazy? Scan has an incredible radius whereas the overlord is slow as balls. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
On August 14 2010 13:35 LooseMoose wrote: No it doesn't. And are you crazy? Scan has an incredible radius whereas the overlord is slow as balls. How do you figure it doesn't? A scan takes up energy that could be used for a MULE, which gets you 270 minerals more than you would have had otherwise, barring the chance of your mineral line being harassed. And overlords may be slow but they still have a decent sight radius. Not to mention they FLY. People must be using their ovies extremely stupidly if they can't get the information they need out of them. | ||
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