EPTZerg scouting flaw - Page 3
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sTYleZerG-eX
Mexico473 Posts
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
On August 14 2010 13:45 sTYleZerG-eX wrote: A quick solution for you: Get the Lair before the ling speed ... HAHA or NOT. Ling speed is better than overseers for scouting. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
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Arnu
Canada96 Posts
I don't see a point in halting teching to a lair and trying to hold off with lings. And as somebody has stated previously, an overlord pinch is a great way to scout. And get overlord speed asap! amagad! | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:56 Linden wrote: suggestion: make it possible to get overseers with evo chamber instead of lair This would not change anything really. Overseers costs 100 gas and lair costs 100 gas so who would choose an overseer over a lair? Your lair is easily able to get up before any bancheese or void rays arrive. | ||
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Iggyhopper
United States259 Posts
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TofuD
Canada15 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:59 BondGamer wrote: A scan costs 270 minerals and sees even less than what an overlord can. That scan does not actually cost you 270 minerals. Yes you lose mining time because you don't have MULEs to extract said 270 but you are NOT spending 270 per cast. You can still produce SCVs and maintain economy. It is faulty logic to believe that MULEs magically generate 270 minerals, or that a scan or supply depot drop costs you 270 to casts. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
If you are having trouble with beginning-mid game scouting just morph in an overseer and sneak a peek. That way, if he does turn out to be doing Destiny-Cloud-Fist build then at least you'll have a detector ready anyway. | ||
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Goobus
Hong Kong587 Posts
On August 14 2010 14:00 Iggyhopper wrote: Split the overlord speed and overseer speed upgrades for 50/50 each. It's not viable to upgrade to lair and get the overlord speed just so you can sacrifice it. I hate the way people throw around the word "viable." What the fuck does that even mean? Do you mean sacrificing an OL after getting OL speed to be cost inefficient? If that's what you're saying, you would need to back it up with some ARGUMENTS as to why it is in fact cost inefficient. Overall, your post means almost nothing. | ||
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Kigari
Bahrain134 Posts
YAY NOOBS ! | ||
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sqwert
United States781 Posts
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
It doesn't seem to me, from my limited experience, nor my spectation of professional games, that there is a problem. | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
It is faulty logic to believe that MULEs magically generate 270 minerals, or that a scan or supply depot drop costs you 270 to casts. I don't see how. If you use a MULE, you get 270 minerals. If you use a scan, you don't. Therefore you miss out on 270 minerals in order to use a scan... The only other thing to add is that the 270 minerals aren't instant, they come over time. edit: sorry for the double post | ||
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Iggyhopper
United States259 Posts
On August 14 2010 14:07 Goobus wrote: My post contributes a possible solution for patchy scouting (if Blizzard ever decides to change something). The second statement is an opinion. Learn to read.I hate the way people throw around the word "viable." What the fuck does that even mean? Do you mean sacrificing an OL after getting OL speed to be cost inefficient? If that's what you're saying, you would need to back it up with some ARGUMENTS as to why it is in fact cost inefficient. Overall, your post means almost nothing. | ||
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naventus
United States1338 Posts
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Chizambers
United States126 Posts
I use the 2 overlord pincer early game. Send my first overlord to the cliff on one side of the enemy main, I send the second overlord to the opposite side of the main (usually between main and nat). I keep the second overlord close enough to the nat to see when the opponent lays down an expansion. As soon as I get lair, I turn my first Overlord (already at his base) into an overseer. Mutation takes like 10 seconds... very quick. I drop a changeling on the ledge just inside his base and can scout the entire base. I think one of the biggest problems Zerg players have is they put off getting their Lair for too long. I know I have lost my share of games because I didn't get my lair soon enough and was just too slow to stop an early air attack. Another thing I have started doing, is if I don't fast expand I will often build a second hatch in my main for more larva, and more queens, and ability to train a queen while morphing that lair. Some things I look for: vs. P - If I see a Cybernetics Core with my inital scout, I get a fast lair. If I see 2 Gates, I get ling speed, then lair, or sometimes roaches as well. vs. T - Honestly, my scouting vs T is kinda weak.. but I mostly look for how many barracks he is building, and if he is getting a fast factory. If he goes fast factory, go for fast lair. vs. Z - Usually throw down a second hatch in main, and 1-2 spine crawlers, and speedlings. I scout for roach/baneling nest/lair, and try to find out how many lings he has. Once I fight off initial rush, or see him expand, or see him go lair, I get lair. | ||
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SixTwo
Netherlands68 Posts
On August 14 2010 14:08 Kigari wrote: Yay changeling. Yay overseer ! YAY NOOBS ! great post ! not, I don't think zerg need any buff/nerf to their scouting, simply because their scouting later in the game makes up for the fact that they can't scout easy earlly on, if you think about it protoss are in the same boat, if their probe gets killed before they have enough information to scout from then on they have to get a robo, eventho they maybe didnt plan on using it in their build. Terran get a scan early but using that first scan looses them 270 minerals (I know it doesnt cost 270 to cast a scan, but its 270 minerals they otherwise could have had, opportunity cost i think its called). Zerg beeing a reactive race i probablly can agree on, but that doesn't mean that the zerg doesn't have any "safe" builds. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:55 hadoken5 wrote: Not so much a difference in scouting ability. However in SC1 zerg can manage without a tech check, however it will get steamrolled in SC2 if it isn't watching the opponent's tech. Not gonna talk about what some may think to be imba, but what we can all agree on is that zerg needs to constantly scout. No they can't. If you are any decent in BW you'd always be sending ling scouts to make sure the other player isn't moving out before you have sunkens up. Likewise in SC2 you should be constantly having lings below the ramp to check army movements. Zerg scouting is fine. You've got a flying unit to start off with so use it to the best of your ability. | ||
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MadVillain
United States402 Posts
I think a change should at least be considered for this reason: it seems Zerg is a very defensive race early game and thus must react appropriately to enemy army composition and the ovie currently isn't reliable enough to be fully balanced. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On August 14 2010 14:30 Ace wrote: No they can't. If you are any decent in BW you'd always be sending ling scouts to make sure the other player isn't moving out before you have sunkens up. Likewise in SC2 you should be constantly having lings below the ramp to check army movements. Zerg scouting is fine. You've got a flying unit to start off with so use it to the best of your ability. Although in SC2 by the time your ling sees the other player moving out, it's already too late, as he will be at your base when your spine crawlers are half done. | ||
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