EPTcolossus | colossi
phoenix | phoenix (yeah, its the SAME)
The Plural of "Nexus" - Page 9
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JustAnotherKnave
United States67 Posts
colossus | colossi phoenix | phoenix (yeah, its the SAME) | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:21 Nilrem wrote: Incorrect Post Correct Post Is the dictionary the way it is now, the same as it was a few years ago, ten years ago, twenty, thirty? Words are organic, they change, they are manipulated and alter over time. There are a few inconstancies with what you have said. Octopus, the English word, is not Greek. It is English, because it is an English word. There is a different between being Greek, and originating from Greek. Octopodes is therefore incorrect. In fact, the plural form of the English word Octopuses is in the dictionary. wow. See what I did there? What you said in the beginning does not match up with what you said at the end about octopus. Why do they not match up? Well, the premise of your argument is that Colossus is an English word, therefore, it has an English ending. But here is the thing, Octopus is also the same, it is ALSO an English word. But wait, you just said all the three forms were correct, but how so? It really comes off as you being quite inconsistent with your argument. Look here, oktṓpous is the origin of Octopus. Can you guess, it is Greek. Because it is Greek in origin (oktṓpodes plural). That is where the English portion came from, so octopus and Octopodes. Makes sense right? But here is the thing. Colossus is derived from the Greek term Kolossus. While the plural of that would be colossal (feminine), Colosae, or Colosse. So as we can see, these are not English words, but Greek words. So, if you went back in time to the dictionary of 1700's, you would see that it was only Octopuses. But, since there was a movement, we also received octopusi and octopodes. Which you claim is correct, but that is merely because it is in the dictionary. But it wasn't originally in it. Are you getting the drift now? You can simply stick with "oh, it is in the dictionary" argument, which is fine, but is it quite weak. To me, I look to it as simply following the crowd, just like people use to believe Earth was flat. So your main argument is that: 1. I am only following the dictionary definition, the "majority belief" 2. The dictionary changes You say that the dictionary changes; indeed, the English language changes. However, that doesn't mean that changes in the future are true today. Unlike scientific facts that could not be proven at the time flat earth/round earth, the correct English language can always be proven, because it is man-made. Therefore, how is "sticking with the dictionary" weak? You are going to make up your own grammar, and call it "strong?" That does not make sense at all. Just as English changes, the dictionary changes, so it will follow what is correct English. I follow what is in the dictionary presently. You say that 1. I follow the dictionary 2. I believe octopodes is correct. Then you say that I contradict myself, because octopodes was not in the dictionary hundreds of years ago. Well of course not! I follow the present dictionary, and if you believe there is a better guide to the present English language, please tell me. You, as a person, cannot possibly be a better guide for "proper English," correct? The fact is that colopodes or colossopodes or whatever you want to call it is not yet in the English language, and therefore it isn't in the English dictionary either. Therefore, it is incorrect. Perhaps it isn't so forever, because it might be accepted in the future. At that point, I will accept it as well, because my "following" is to the dictionary/language of the time. Colossus is an English word, and so is nexus. They may have originated from Greek and Latin, but the words we are talking about now are English, with clearly defined plurals. These plurals may change, but then the dictionary will change too. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with what I have said, and I have not contradicted myself either. All 3 forms of octopus have been accepted into English, so all three are correct. Find me one source that shows all 3 forms of colossus have been accepted into English. Your argument against me is that I only believe in what is in the dictionary, but that the dictionary changes. If we go back to 1700s, I will indeed tell you that octopodes is incorrect. Just because something is going to be right in the future doesn't mean it is right in the present. This isn't science, where the Earth can't be flat today and round tomorrow. As I've stated already, language is man-made. It is whatever we define it to be. Therefore, the definitions of the time will always be correct for that particular time. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:39 JustAnotherKnave wrote: nexus | nexus (yeah, its the SAME) colossus | colossi phoenix | phoenix (yeah, its the SAME) Nooo, don't bring up Phoenix!! That will complicate things even more!! There is a reason why many dictionaries do not even mention its plural, even if it were Phoenix. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
Raynor, refers to them as Nexi, Raynor is also the one terran who would know what the protoss would call it, given his previous history. You may all have to accept that the protoss refer to them as Nexi. | ||
l10f
United States3241 Posts
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:45 ComusLoM wrote: This thread is awesome. Outside of SC2 the plural of Nexus is Nexus/Nexuses. However you forget that SC2 is also set in a completely different time. If Nexi sounds better to one of the characters in the game, how is he to know any better? Hell Nexi might be the way protoss refer to multiple Nexus. English grammar rules do not apply in-game, but they do however apply out of game, (thus the reference to Nexuses in the achievement). Raynor, refers to them as Nexi, Raynor is also the one terran who would know what the protoss would call it, given his previous history. You may all have to accept that the protoss refer to them as Nexi. Well, I think the top reasons people want to know the plural form of nexus are all out of game. - general talk on TL - strategies - commentaries And until you have proof that the Protoss actually call it Nexi, there's no point making that statement. I can go and say "you may all have to accept that the protoss children refer to them as NEXO" | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
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Solarswordsman
United States35 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:43 Karliath wrote: This is only British English. Octopuses and octopi, are both correct, but octopuses being more so. Other People etc, etc... From the editor of Merriam Webster: http://www.wimp.com/octopusplural/ | ||
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
He says this about me: 1. I follow the dictionary 2. I believe all three forms of octopus are correct (as shown in the dictionary) 3. I do not believe all three forms of colossus are correct (also, as shown in the dictionary) In general, he says that: 1. The dictionary changes 2. Following the dictionary is weak 3. People used to think the Earth was flat Here's what I have to say: Following the dictionary is not weak because the dictionary, as he states, changes to fit with the present English language. A change in the English language causes a change in the dictionary. Therefore the dictionary is always as correct as possible. However, the old dictionary was just as good for the old English, just not the present one. While the Earth can't shift from flat the spherical as we demand, the English language can. Therefore, following the crowd when it comes to English is correct, as the crowd will determine how English changes. The crowd cannot determine how the Earth looks like. All 3 forms of octopus are accepted in the dictionary, in English, so it is correct. He argues that it wasn't so in 1700. Are we in 1700? I didn't think so. He says that I should believe that all 3 forms of colossus are correct. Just as Octopodes was wrong in 1700 but right in the present, colossopodes is wrong now but can be right in the future. I agree that it can be right in the future, but at present, it is wrong. Which he pretty much agreed to by making the statement. No one knows ok? the plural -s can be switched to -z in the future. That doesn't make Wingz of Liberty any more correct. He says that following the dictionary is weak. Pray tell me, what do you follow when it comes to English? Because how Greek and Latin work do not necessarily translate to English. When they do, they BECOME English. Therefore, you can't say that because something is right in Greek, it is also right in English. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20664 Posts
its not proper greek all u punsk who have never taken latin or greek stfu that being said having taken college level latin at a world class university all i have to say on the subject is it doesn't fucking matter | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:48 Karliath wrote: Well, I think the top reasons people want to know the plural form of nexus are all out of game. - general talk on TL - strategies - commentaries And until you have proof that the Protoss actually call it Nexi, there's no point making that statement. I can go and say "you may all have to accept that the protoss children refer to them as NEXO" Raynor > you. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:43 Karliath wrote: So your main argument is that: 1. I am only following the dictionary definition, the "majority belief" 2. The dictionary changes You say that the dictionary changes; indeed, the English language changes. However, that doesn't mean that changes in the future are true today. Unlike scientific facts that could not be proven at the time flat earth/round earth, the correct English language can always be proven, because it is man-made. Therefore, how is "sticking with the dictionary" weak? You are going to make up your own grammar, and call it "strong?" That does not make sense at all. Just as English changes, the dictionary changes, so it will follow what is correct English. I follow what is in the dictionary presently. You say that 1. I follow the dictionary 2. I believe octopodes is correct. Then you say that I contradict myself, because octopodes was not in the dictionary hundreds of years ago. Well of course not! I follow the present dictionary, and if you believe there is a better guide to the present English language, please tell me. You, as a person, cannot possibly be a better guide for "proper English," correct? The fact is that colopodes or colossopodes or whatever you want to call it is not yet in the English language, and therefore it isn't in the English dictionary either. Therefore, it is incorrect. Perhaps it isn't so forever, because it might be accepted in the future. At that point, I will accept it as well, because my "following" is to the dictionary/language of the time. Colossus is an English word, and so is nexus. They may have originated from Greek and Latin, but the words we are talking about now are English, with clearly defined plurals. These plurals may change, but then the dictionary will change too. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with what I have said, and I have not contradicted myself either. All 3 forms of octopus have been accepted into English, so all three are correct. Find me one source that shows all 3 forms of colossus have been accepted into English. Your argument against me is that I only believe in what is in the dictionary, but that the dictionary changes. If we go back to 1700s, I will indeed tell you that octopodes is incorrect. Just because something is going to be right in the future doesn't mean it is right in the present. This isn't science, where the Earth can't be flat today and round tomorrow. As I've stated already, language is man-made. It is whatever we define it to be. Therefore, the definitions of the time will always be correct for that particular time. At this point, there is no point in arguing further. Since it comes down to this, your basing what is correct and incorrect is merely controlled by what certain dictionaries say. Not all dictionaries are the same, at any given time. Because of that, there is no room at all for any alterations, growth, or any change of the English language at all. Had it been your way, the English language that it was in the past, would be the exact same as it is today, since you will not acknowledge anything that it outside of the Dictionary. So now, when we have this sort of argument. The only answer you can amount to is simply this, the correct way to pluralize the word amounts to only what is presently in the dictionary, and nothing concerning the origins of the word, the desire to be consistent in pluralizing a word based upon the origins, or keeping consistent to how words have become pluralized today. There is no reason to try to explain anything else since it all amounts to, your belief in what is correct is based upon the present populous understanding of the word. I consider your argument weak because it amount to, it is in the book, therefore I believe it to be true. That is all it amounts to. It is weak because it does not even take into consideration why it is the way that it is. And if it is the way that it is, why is it not the other ways. It is weak because it does not allow for any progression or growth of the English language. It is weak because it has no solid foundation for which it is based upon. Although possibly incorrect in many areas, in my explanation of why I believe that it is not so simply, one correct way. I still strengthen the foundation of my argument by showing historical uses of the word, the origins of the word, and how to become consistent, it ought to be such and such way. Why do I not believe that the Colossus is the only way to properly pronounce it? Simply because as dictionaries presently,as in the past have shown, that is not the only potential way of pluralizing in. I am trying to be consistent with what has been shown to be in past and present, while you are being consistent in simply only believing in what is presently correct to specified dictionaries. I am not saying you are wrong, I just do not like taking it at face value. I write philosophical papers. As I do, and many philosophers have done in the past, we use language at a tool. In our attempts to write papers, we do actually make up words. These words have been and still are being added to dictionaries in the world. How do we do such a thing? We take portions of a word, combine it with other portions, in an attempt to make a word into something that is not currently used since words in dictionaries are quite limited. I help in molding and creating the language, and proud of it. You simply adapt, and that is your prerogative. But just because you live your life that way, do not be so bold in your post to squander or squash someone's attempt to try to figure out something, just because it does not match up with your dictionaries definition. You can say you believe in such and such. But do not try to tried or impede on someone else's attempt to move forward. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:00 Last Romantic wrote: colossopodes will never be right in the future its not proper greek all u punsk who have never taken latin or greek stfu that being said having taken college level latin at a world class university all i have to say on the subject is it doesn't fucking matter What, exactly, doesn't matter? | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
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supernova
Canada148 Posts
That's from dictionary.com Apparently both of those are fine while Nexi is wrong. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:10 keV. wrote: Look. I just have an enquiry. There are definitely allot of opinions, and I mean a lot. Alot of these are wrong, but thats beside the point. All right, lets just put it to vote. Whom thinks that it is Nexi and who thinks it is Nexus? If you want to put it to a vote you could at least make the effort to make a poll for it. Edit: Forget about my remark above . I was sleeeepy. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:16 nihlon wrote: If you want to put it to a vote you could at least make the effort to make a poll for it. On August 11 2010 10:10 keV. wrote: Look. I just have an enquiry. There are definitely allot of opinions, and I mean a lot. Alot of these are wrong, but thats beside the point. All right, lets just put it to vote. Whom thinks that it is Nexi and who thinks it is Nexus? I guess my joke wasn't that funny. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On August 11 2010 08:59 Karliath wrote: As far as octopus goes, octopuses and octopi are both correct in American English. In British English, octopodes is correct. I keep seeing this being quoted as if British use the word octopodes and i can honestly say i have never heard it used people either say octopuses or octopi in the UK as well. As I said before English is overdue for a spelling reform with every other language having one but English not for 100 years or so. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:57 Chill wrote: If Colossus is greek it should use the -odes ending. Octopus -> Octopodes Colossodes? [Call - loss - o - dees] Now that's just silly. Oh, my biggest pet peeve is people trying to be smart calling them Colossi. But then going "here comes one Colossi." Why would you do that? Whyyyyyyy? Actually, if you're going by the greek, it'd be colossoi. On August 11 2010 09:39 JustAnotherKnave wrote: nexus | nexus (yeah, its the SAME) colossus | colossi phoenix | phoenix (yeah, its the SAME) phoenices | ||
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