Hey there TL.net. I’m going to introduce you all to a new little tactic you can use as the swarm to defeat the almighty lasershooting beast of the protoss.
Introduction of the glitch: The glitch I discovered was that the colossi has got a unique pathing calculation which causes it to interact with burrowed movement in an interesting way. In the youtube video below you can clearly see that burrowed roaches and infestors prevent the movement of any colossi but not the rest of the protoss army. This also only works with the roaches and infestors due to their mechanic of burrowed movement even if tunneling claws is not even researched.
Possibilities of using this glitch: Just by theorycrafting so far there’s quite a lot of uses for this glitch and it makes the roach more viable for the mid to late game in PvZ. The trick itself relies on the lack of observers together with the protoss main army, this could prove to be a problem but there are techniques to circumvent this. The most apparent one is the various observersnipes which are perfect ways to slow down the P gas progression, but my favorite one use the overseer’s amazing ability contaminate. Contaminating the robotics bay creates pressure on the P to reach his critical mass colossi and thus he might skip out on observer production. So a combination of these and maybe other tricks might render the protoss army without observers. This glitch also accomplishes to split up the protoss army so you can either engage the protoss army without colossi support or flank the colossi with roach/corruptor when he lacks stalker support and this is only the most apparent possibilities, a split up protoss army just begs to be abused in all possible ways.
Synergies with strategies: The roaches themselves are quite commonly used to combat the normal colossi supported protoss armies. The corruptors are crucial for fighting of the colossi in a normal ZvP and the overseer is an amazing unit to have both offensive and defensive, this will allow you to have a competent observersniping force even without messing with your standard armycomposition. The only investment you need to do is the burrow tech which you get for the mere 100/100 resources and you even need that if you’re going for tunneling claws for roaches anyway. The lurkers themselves that you endanger with placing in chokepoints are often not worth more than the sc:bw hold-lurkers and the reward for successfully splitting the protoss main army can be huge exploited in the right way.
Epilogue: This is just the tip of the iceberg of a new glitch and I’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas regarding how you can use this mechanic, be creative, discuss and try out.
Recognized replays: Will keep an eye out once this trick gets used by the pros!
Strange to see this happen however. I have played games where they have walked right over. Possibly from recent patching, which wouldn't explain why they needed to patch this mechanic.
On August 08 2010 07:59 vica wrote: Glitch, not a trick. It will be patched.
Strange to see this happen however. I have played games where they have walked right over. Possibly from recent patching, which wouldn't explain why they needed to patch this mechanic.
This is also basicaly useless, any good toss will have obs and just kill your roaches
better for protoss cuz now if u pay attention you know if there are burrowed roaches. For example i could have him patrol across my ramp and if i see him fuck up i know roaches are coming into my base
Lol, what an obvious bug. You seriously think this counts as a trick? Don't even waste your time trying to abuse this as it won't stay in the game for long.
On August 08 2010 08:04 SC2Phoenix wrote: I dont see how would be effective at all. Not like your going to burrow a bunch of roac to mess up AI because they will have an obs.
colossus are large so i imagine burrowing a couple spread apart could fuck them up, especially if they dont expect it
The overlord+muta control group in BW was technically a bug, just like hold position lurkers. The only reason they still exist is because BW isn't worth patching anymore. Good find, Urkl.
On August 08 2010 08:07 VorcePA wrote: Good lord people, give the guy some credit -_-
The overlord+muta control group in BW was technically a bug, just like hold position lurkers. The only reason they still exist is because BW isn't worth patching anymore. Good find, Urkl.
They exist cause they are bugs in the engine itself, BW was still being patched when these were discovered(muta stacking) and hold lurkers had been out forever
Seriously an interesting find-- especially considering after such an extensive beta/alpha testing phase-- how was this missed? I wonder if it will be patched.
Sidenote: If the burrowed units surround the collo's, does it become trapped?
On August 08 2010 08:10 LittleMikeStarCraft wrote: Seriously an interesting find-- especially considering after such an extensive beta/alpha testing phase-- how was this missed? I wonder if it will be patched.
Sidenote: If the burrowed units surround the collo's, does it become trapped?
I think it might of arisen after the last patch.
I've seen Collosus go over burrowed roaches fine before.
Well It might be hidden future so we can't know for sure yet will see if its bug or trick, the logic is if roaches burrow and colosi heavy weight on such tiny legs can fall into the tunnel holes that roaches make and get stuck in the ground thats why their AI see where the ground is unstable and wont step on it This at least make protoss have observer with his army... Currently only zerg is quite forced to have one vs terran (ghost banshee) vs toss (dark templar) whats the invisible zerg unit? I hope they make thor unable to move becouse of roach trap
On August 08 2010 08:10 LittleMikeStarCraft wrote: Seriously an interesting find-- especially considering after such an extensive beta/alpha testing phase-- how was this missed? I wonder if it will be patched.
Sidenote: If the burrowed units surround the collo's, does it become trapped?
On the sidenote part I'm almost sure this will be the case, you can even see on the youtube that a colossi gets stuck in between two different roaches.
On August 08 2010 07:59 vica wrote: It will be patched.
you mean like the FG/NP-Burrow bug?
they didn't fix the infestor bug allthough it was allready found out in beta phase2 (and this bug could actually be usefulle sometimes...every good protoss player will notice that all his collossi got stuck or got observers anyways)
This won't be used much, but I can see it being useful in some very specific situations.
Imagine a Protoss push with a lot of Colossi are coming. You just sacrificed a lot of your army, but you have the resources and larva so you are rebuilding it. To hold off the push, you use a few Mutalisks and an Overseer to snipe the observer for he can't see the few Roaches blocking the path.
It would be rare to see, but this is kind of like when Boxer did the Medic Optic Flare on the observers and used cloaked Wraiths to bring back the Carriers (or was it cloaked ghost to lockdown the carriers?)
I hope it doesn't get patched. Fazing was pretty broken, but the Burrow Infestor Trick and this are not broken at all.
Lol it's not a roach trap, the collosi is not stuck in a hole, the AI is confused that there is something invisible in the way and doesn't kno how to move around it
if it were planned that heavy units get stuck on burrowed units, then there would be some animation
On August 08 2010 07:59 vica wrote: It will be patched.
you meen like the FG/NP-Burrow bug?
they didn't fix the infestor bug allthough it was allready found out in beta phase2 (and this bug could actually be usefulle sometimes...every good protoss player will notice that all his collossi got stuck or got observers anyways)
even if they dont fix them.
most tournaments/leagues/ladders who have any professionalism will have rules against using bugs.
The application of this glitch isnt too good. I don't know why a protoss wouldn't have an observer against roaches by the time they have colo's out. And as zerg you would have to set roaches up in a line all over the place just to block some movement.
Too bad this is going to get patched. Doesn't really matter though. When was I ever really going to burrow some roaches to stop a colossus? Never. I would be way to afraid of an observer.
On August 08 2010 08:18 PhiliBiRD wrote: why do people make guides to exploit bugs? do they not see how this is a horrible idea.
Don't you want the game to become deeper? I'm not the one making the final call if this is something that can add a dimension to starcraft 2 gameplay, that's up to blizzard to decide. Though what gameplay would sc:bw have ended up with if people didn't learn other people how to mutastack in sc:bw?
On August 08 2010 07:59 vica wrote: It will be patched.
you meen like the FG/NP-Burrow bug?
they didn't fix the infestor bug allthough it was allready found out in beta phase2 (and this bug could actually be usefulle sometimes...every good protoss player will notice that all his collossi got stuck or got observers anyways)
even if they dont fix them.
most tournaments/leagues/ladders who have any professionalism will have rules against using bugs.
Kind of like how the BW professional scene banned hold Lukers and Mutalisk stacking?
I don't think tournaments should ban glitches unless it is game breaking. This is not game breaking.
This is pretty cool. Using it effectively would require a lot of effort and planning about how to snipe observers effectively and efficiently, so I doubt many players will make any use of this at all, but it's certainly something to keep in the back of our minds as a potential tool in the arsenal.
On August 08 2010 08:21 Whole wrote: This won't be used much, but I can see it being useful in some very specific situations.
Imagine a Protoss push with a lot of Colossi are coming. You just sacrificed a lot of your army, but you have the resources and larva so you are rebuilding it. To hold off the push, you use a few Mutalisks and an Overseer to snipe the observer for he can't see the few Roaches blocking the path.
It would be rare to see, but this is kind of like when Boxer did the Medic Optic Flare on the observers and used cloaked Wraiths to bring back the Carriers (or was it cloaked ghost to lockdown the carriers?)
I hope it doesn't get patched. Fazing was pretty broken, but the Burrow Infestor Trick and this are not broken at all.
On August 08 2010 07:59 vica wrote: It will be patched.
you meen like the FG/NP-Burrow bug?
they didn't fix the infestor bug allthough it was allready found out in beta phase2 (and this bug could actually be usefulle sometimes...every good protoss player will notice that all his collossi got stuck or got observers anyways)
even if they dont fix them.
most tournaments/leagues/ladders who have any professionalism will have rules against using bugs.
Kind of like how the BW professional scene banned hold Lukers and Mutalisk stacking?
I don't think tournaments should ban glitches unless it is game breaking. This is not game breaking.
This would be like... one of those exploits no one uses, except BoxeR or the equivient. or just BoxeR. Tho this is like... kinda useless.
On August 08 2010 08:25 PokePill wrote: Tip for people who find interesting glitches or bugs: Do not make a thread, or casual gamers will complain about it until it gets patched.
Casual gamers are the new communists, aren't they? Do you really think that casual gamers would care, or even know, about this?
Cool (un)intentional use creds to you aswell. =) I actually discovered it running some custom games with a mate and his colossi glitched out when i played around with some tunneling roaches.
Wow in this video, the roaches pushed two of the colossi way allowing the mutalisks to take care of the stray colossi. I didn't know you could do that. Cool video!
I suppose you could burrow 4 roaches into a toss base, and surround 1 collosi with it.
I very rarely have an obs in my base vs zerg (maybe i'm a noob, but i don't see much point in it to be perfectly honest, out of all the games i've played - i've had 1 guy burrow into my base, maybe it happens more often in diamond?
But seriously, credits to you for finding the glitch, if it doesn't get patched, people will eventually find use for it.
However, i have to agree with some of the other people in this thread, this isn't like fazing or infestor burrow glitches, i think this one needs patching.
does this only work for moving burrowed units? cause the way i see it, it seems as if the colossus cannot walk over units even when they are burrowed. so you could literally block your army with a "shield" of tunneling roaches or infestors. wow that would be neat for using mass hydras. =p
lmfao @ people saying" GLITCH NOT TRICK!!!" what do you think tricks are? it wouldn't be a trick if the game was designed to be that way. glitches almost always increase the skill cap on things, only take them out if they seriously warp the balance of the game. or if you're a game developer and you want to cater to newbies by making sure every little thing you can do is obvious and simple.
with that said, this has basically no use. as limited use as burrow has, it's so easily countered by protoss because of how often players get observers and how difficult it is to kill them as zerg (compared to observers revealing each other and terran scanning) that trying to deliberately set this up is pretty retarded.
On August 08 2010 09:30 Herculix wrote: lmfao @ people saying" GLITCH NOT TRICK!!!" what do you think tricks are? it wouldn't be a trick if the game was designed to be that way. glitches almost always increase the skill cap on things, only take them out if they seriously warp the balance of the game. or if you're a game developer and you want to cater to newbies by making sure every little thing you can do is obvious and simple.
So you think the inability of a unit to walk over another unit is not a glitch. What if Siege Tanks couldn't walk over burrowed Roaches. Do you think it would still be a trick then? How does this increase the skill cap on anything. It just means, hey you Colossi can't walk over here. How is it not broken if I can't walk my units over something. It doesn't matter that it can be prevented easily, but that it even occurs in the first place.
How does this increase the skill cap on anything. It just means, hey you Colossi can't walk over here.
Yes, which requires skill to utilize. Hey, next game, put a big ball of roaches outside of their main so their collosus can't walk out. Tell me how that works for ya.
How does this increase the skill cap on anything. It just means, hey you Colossi can't walk over here.
Yes, which requires skill to utilize. Hey, next game, put a big ball of roaches outside of their main so their collosus can't walk out. Tell me how that works for ya.
Muta stacking is a glitch fyi.
How about the Protoss player who goes, hey I want to move my units out of my base. Why can't I move units out of my base? This takes no skill at all. Burrow Roaches. Move them to a choke by his base. Muta stacking occurs, but you need skill to utilize it. Hold Lurker, press a few buttons, ignore it. Constantly check minimap while performing other actions. The second you see the enemy, wait for the perfect time and then attack. Lapse of concentration means Lurkers become useless. Burrowed NP/FG, in middle of battle, be able to micro both Infestors and regular units. Roach blocking, burrow Roaches, move them to a choke.
Would this make it clearer? What if NO unit could walk over Roaches and Infestors while burrowed. You completely ignored that point. And the point that I can't move units over a spot when other units can.
On August 08 2010 09:30 Herculix wrote: lmfao @ people saying" GLITCH NOT TRICK!!!" what do you think tricks are? it wouldn't be a trick if the game was designed to be that way. glitches almost always increase the skill cap on things, only take them out if they seriously warp the balance of the game. or if you're a game developer and you want to cater to newbies by making sure every little thing you can do is obvious and simple.
How does this increase the skill cap on anything. It just means, hey you Colossi can't walk over here. How is it not broken if I can't walk my units over something. It doesn't matter that it can be prevented easily, but that it even occurs in the first place.
Yeah, except it requires ridiculously good planning and positioning to use versus any competent player. To be able to snipe the Observer(s) and place a few Roaches to block Colossus in a useful spot isn't the easiest thing to do. It doesn't require gosu APM, but it requires a good deal of thought to pull it off.
I'd argue that this does require some skill at least, as you need to actively deny the opponent of observers, and hence the closer to his base you set up this block, the harder it is to do. Plus, you have to remember - the Colossi can always just walk down a cliff instead.
IMO it's too situational to be of much use, and will most likely get patched. But until then - keep those observers safe!
Move them to a choke by his base. Muta stacking occurs, but you need skill to utilize it.
Yes you don't need to utilize this at all. Like, when they see the shadows cast by burrowed roaches in front of their choke, and they try to move their collosus out, they be completely baffled and stare at their screen in complete awe for twenty minutes, allowing you to score an easy win. They won't move their collosus around it, or build observers, or anything. A special few may even get seizures from intense bafflement.
Thus, we have to remove this trick. Just like we removed Fazing and Burrowed movement. All micro tricks have to be intentionally design lols. What do you think this is 1998?. And don't worry about lack of micro tactics, they'll develop over time you noob. Starcraft 2 is the best.
Collosi failing to walk over a burrowed unit isn't a "micro trick", it's just a poor pathing glitch that should be patched. There will be micro tricks that are found as the game gets pushed to its limit through the years, but this definitely isn't one of them.
On August 08 2010 10:27 AJMcSpiffy wrote: Collosi failing to walk over a burrowed unit isn't a "micro trick", it's just a poor pathing glitch that should be patched. There will be micro tricks that are found as the game gets pushed to its limit through the years, but this definitely isn't one of them.
Repeat this slowly in your head until you get that.
I'd be ok if your argument was like "Hey we should remove all these micro glitches/tricks because they make the game inaccessible and the games micro heavy enough anyway for a primarily macro game".
Your current position, that every single glitch/pathing error we find should be patched out, yet somehow simultaneously expecting that micro tricks will "develop over time" is nothing short of pure batfuck idiocy. It is literally incoherent.
In the -zomg micro doesnt exist no more- thread someone mentioned something along the lines of, wait until kids figure out this weird random stuff that changes games.
On August 08 2010 10:31 Synwave wrote: In the -zomg micro doesnt exist no more- thread someone mentioned something along the lines of, wait until kids figure out this weird random stuff that changes games.[
Like Fazing? Like Infestor Burrowing? What happened to those? Oh yeah, they got fixed.
So guys. What do you thinks going to happen to this? ^_^? I mean, just based on popular response from this thread, if nothing else.
On August 08 2010 10:31 Synwave wrote: In the -zomg micro doesnt exist no more- thread someone mentioned something along the lines of, wait until kids figure out this weird random stuff that changes games.[
Like Fazing? Like Infestor Burrowing? What happened to those? Oh yeah, they got fixed.
So guys. What do you thinks going to happen to this? ^_^? I mean, just based on popular response from this thread, if nothing else.
I think Infestor Burrowing is still in. Fazing was potentially overpowered, so it being removed might have been a good thing.
On August 08 2010 10:27 AJMcSpiffy wrote: Collosi failing to walk over a burrowed unit isn't a "micro trick", it's just a poor pathing glitch that should be patched. There will be micro tricks that are found as the game gets pushed to its limit through the years, but this definitely isn't one of them.
Repeat this slowly in your head until you get that.
I'd be ok if your argument was like "Hey we should remove all these micro glitches/tricks because they make the game inaccessible and the games micro heavy enough anyway for a primarily macro game".
Your current position, that every single glitch/pathing error we find should be patched out, yet somehow simultaneously expecting that micro tricks will "develop over time" is nothing short of pure batfuck idiocy. It is literally incoherent.
Lol this is a great post. Not just because it's correct, but I think the term "batfuck idiocy" is hilarious for some reason.
I honestly hope this doesn't get nerfed it adds something interesting to the mechanics of the game. I do hope that since its easily counter able (detection) that this will stay in the game since minor issues such as this is what makes the game more interesting.
On August 08 2010 10:31 Synwave wrote: In the -zomg micro doesnt exist no more- thread someone mentioned something along the lines of, wait until kids figure out this weird random stuff that changes games.[
Like Fazing? Like Infestor Burrowing? What happened to those? Oh yeah, they got fixed.
So guys. What do you thinks going to happen to this? ^_^? I mean, just based on popular response from this thread, if nothing else.
Enjoy SC2 gaiz.
That wasnt my point nor do I disagree with you that this might be patched. Sorry you completely missed my point.
Are you guys forgetting that colloxen can walk up and down cliffs? You're not going to prevent shit from pushing out if you block off their choke point lol.
Definitely going to be patched. I don't know how you can compare this to any brood war glitch. You're units are underground meaning every single unit should be able to pass over them. Besides, its not like burrowed roaches are used in zvp anyways.
On August 08 2010 10:43 kNyTTyM wrote: Definitely going to be patched. I don't know how you can compare this to any brood war glitch. You're units are underground meaning every single unit should be able to pass over them. Besides, its not like burrowed roaches are used in zvp anyways.
Kinda like how burrowed moving roaches shouldn't be able to be seen...owait there is that shadow. Agreed it will likely be fixed. I would like them to fix the burrow movement shadow while they are at it.
On August 08 2010 10:48 hifriend wrote: Can burrowed roaches pass through collossii? Otherwise a single collosus parked on your ramp would prevent intruding roaches.
Burrowed roaches push the colloxen out of the way. I'm not sure if that happens if they hold-position though.
Why not keep it in for now, it's not like its broken or anything. Keeps Protoss honest and force him to have an obs w/ his army if he's going for a Collosus-centric play.
Move them to a choke by his base. Muta stacking occurs, but you need skill to utilize it.
Yes you don't need to utilize this at all. Like, when they see the shadows cast by burrowed roaches in front of their choke, and they try to move their collosus out, they be completely baffled and stare at their screen in complete awe for twenty minutes, allowing you to score an easy win. They won't move their collosus around it, or build observers, or anything. A special few may even get seizures from intense bafflement.
Thus, we have to remove this trick. Just like we removed Fazing and Burrowed movement. All micro tricks have to be intentionally design lols. What do you think this is 1998?. And don't worry about lack of micro tactics, they'll develop over time you noob. Starcraft 2 is the best.
Yes, because calling me a noob and using sarcasm adds to your argument. See what I did there? 'What do you think this is 1998?' What kind of attitude is that. I thought we would have a nice argument, but it seems like you would rather insult my intelligence than provide some discussion. Obviously I have not said anything close to removing Fazing nor Burrowed Casting, but only that this should be. How does that represent the attitude of someone playing Starcraft in 1998. You just sound ridiculous.
Burrowed units don't make shadows unless their moving? And I actually wonder how many players will stare at their screen in awe trying to figure out what is going on when their Colossi starts glitching out because Blizzard didn't do their pathing properly? Quite a bit I believe. It's not everyone's instinctive reaction to get an Observer out to scout it. And as you see in the videos, Colossi don't walk around it. They walk into it and get stuck. If you have burrow move, you could burrow move around it, and it would get stuck their forever. Do you realize how important Colossi are in many match ups? Do you realize that if a Protoss is unable to get them out, how much of a problem that causes?
Burial Ground, Kulas Ravine, Abyss. All three have small chokes that you could abuse by placing several Roaches outside. Now no Colossi, except for maybe on Kulas, can enter or leave by the cliff mechanic.
None of the examples you have given have in any way proven this is not a glitch. All you have proven is that this can be used in some ways. I don't see anything to prove this is not a glitch.
Again, I will say this. What if every unit, or maybe other units, like Siege Tanks, or Zerglings were unable to move over burrowed Roaches and Infestors. Would it still be considered a neat trick?
Fazing, is again, part of the Void Ray design, not a bug or a glitch. It was intentional, but no one realized it. I'm not sure about Burrowed casting, but it becomes pretty obvious that it is Infestor handiwork once you see the spine sticking out of the ground. Only problem is that you need detection, and this is ridiculously difficult and unnecessary in a fight.
I'm sure that in Starcraft, there were many glitches that people found, but Blizzard decided that it shouldn't exist. Anyways, Blizzard's decision is final, and if they decide to keep this, I will let it go, but until they make that decision, I will not accept this as a micro trick.
On August 08 2010 11:02 ArvickHero wrote: Why not keep it in for now, it's not like its broken or anything. Keeps Protoss honest and force him to have an obs w/ his army if he's going for a Collosus-centric play.
Exactly. Now Protoss actually have to do something besides cast forcefields and spam zealots, colossus, sentries, and stalkers. Now they have to keep their observers in the right place, and prevent them from getting sniped.
Move them to a choke by his base. Muta stacking occurs, but you need skill to utilize it.
Yes you don't need to utilize this at all. Like, when they see the shadows cast by burrowed roaches in front of their choke, and they try to move their collosus out, they be completely baffled and stare at their screen in complete awe for twenty minutes, allowing you to score an easy win. They won't move their collosus around it, or build observers, or anything. A special few may even get seizures from intense bafflement.
Thus, we have to remove this trick. Just like we removed Fazing and Burrowed movement. All micro tricks have to be intentionally design lols. What do you think this is 1998?. And don't worry about lack of micro tactics, they'll develop over time you noob. Starcraft 2 is the best.
Yes, because calling me a noob and using sarcasm adds to your argument. See what I did there? 'What do you think this is 1998?' What kind of attitude is that. I thought we would have a nice argument, but it seems like you would rather insult my intelligence than provide some discussion. Obviously I have not said anything close to removing Fazing nor Burrowed Casting, but only that this should be. How does that represent the attitude of someone playing Starcraft in 1998. You just sound ridiculous.
Burrowed units don't make shadows unless their moving? And I actually wonder how many players will stare at their screen in awe trying to figure out what is going on when their Colossi starts glitching out because Blizzard didn't do their pathing properly? Quite a bit I believe. It's not everyone's instinctive reaction to get an Observer out to scout it. And as you see in the videos, Colossi don't walk around it. They walk into it and get stuck. If you have burrow move, you could burrow move around it, and it would get stuck their forever. Do you realize how important Colossi are in many match ups? Do you realize that if a Protoss is unable to get them out, how much of a problem that causes?
Burial Ground, Kulas Ravine, Abyss. All three have small chokes that you could abuse by placing several Roaches outside. Now no Colossi, except for maybe on Kulas, can enter or leave by the cliff mechanic.
None of the examples you have given have in any way proven this is not a glitch. All you have proven is that this can be used in some ways. I don't see anything to prove this is not a glitch.
Again, I will say this. What if every unit, or maybe other units, like Siege Tanks, or Zerglings were unable to move over burrowed Roaches and Infestors. Would it still be considered a neat trick?
Fazing, is again, part of the Void Ray design, not a bug or a glitch. It was intentional, but no one realized it. I'm not sure about Burrowed casting, but it becomes pretty obvious that it is Infestor handiwork once you see the spine sticking out of the ground. Only problem is that you need detection, and this is ridiculously difficult and unnecessary in a fight.
I'm sure that in Starcraft, there were many glitches that people found, but Blizzard decided that it shouldn't exist. Anyways, Blizzard's decision is final, and if they decide to keep this, I will let it go, but until they make that decision, I will not accept this as a micro trick.
just consider this the zerg equivalent of DTs or cloaked banshees - they severely punish the opponent if they dont have any observers. burrow and claws such against anything else due to the cost and time of both upgrades.
chokes also favor protoss since they can easily storm or FF, this should help even it up. as for other units not getting stuck, keep in mind that colossi are not tanks, lings, nor any other unit. they can also move over other ground units and cliffs.
using burrowed roaches to stop colossi also require skill, unlike what some may believe because keep in mind that for every roach burrowed you have one less fighting unit, and precise positioning is required. you can't just burrow a roach anywhere on the map and instantly stop all colossi or anything like that. you have to actually move the roaches in a way that they block the colossi while also making sure you have enough units left over to kill whatever the protoss has.
finally, there is no clear distinction between glitch and trick but the general consensus seems to be that if blizzard has not officially announced whether something was intended or not, it would be judged by its effects. if the move in question was game breaking, it would be a glitch. otherwise, a trick. i personally think that it's not game breaking enough to be called a glitch, but frankly, it doesn't matter what anyone ASSUMES. why don't we just wait a while for the trick to be used, and then lets judge whether or not its broken?
Move them to a choke by his base. Muta stacking occurs, but you need skill to utilize it.
Yes you don't need to utilize this at all. Like, when they see the shadows cast by burrowed roaches in front of their choke, and they try to move their collosus out, they be completely baffled and stare at their screen in complete awe for twenty minutes, allowing you to score an easy win. They won't move their collosus around it, or build observers, or anything. A special few may even get seizures from intense bafflement.
Thus, we have to remove this trick. Just like we removed Fazing and Burrowed movement. All micro tricks have to be intentionally design lols. What do you think this is 1998?. And don't worry about lack of micro tactics, they'll develop over time you noob. Starcraft 2 is the best.
Yes, because calling me a noob and using sarcasm adds to your argument. See what I did there? 'What do you think this is 1998?' What kind of attitude is that. I thought we would have a nice argument, but it seems like you would rather insult my intelligence than provide some discussion. Obviously I have not said anything close to removing Fazing nor Burrowed Casting, but only that this should be. How does that represent the attitude of someone playing Starcraft in 1998. You just sound ridiculous.
Burrowed units don't make shadows unless their moving? And I actually wonder how many players will stare at their screen in awe trying to figure out what is going on when their Colossi starts glitching out because Blizzard didn't do their pathing properly? Quite a bit I believe. It's not everyone's instinctive reaction to get an Observer out to scout it. And as you see in the videos, Colossi don't walk around it. They walk into it and get stuck. If you have burrow move, you could burrow move around it, and it would get stuck their forever. Do you realize how important Colossi are in many match ups? Do you realize that if a Protoss is unable to get them out, how much of a problem that causes?
Burial Ground, Kulas Ravine, Abyss. All three have small chokes that you could abuse by placing several Roaches outside. Now no Colossi, except for maybe on Kulas, can enter or leave by the cliff mechanic.
None of the examples you have given have in any way proven this is not a glitch. All you have proven is that this can be used in some ways. I don't see anything to prove this is not a glitch.
Again, I will say this. What if every unit, or maybe other units, like Siege Tanks, or Zerglings were unable to move over burrowed Roaches and Infestors. Would it still be considered a neat trick?
Fazing, is again, part of the Void Ray design, not a bug or a glitch. It was intentional, but no one realized it. I'm not sure about Burrowed casting, but it becomes pretty obvious that it is Infestor handiwork once you see the spine sticking out of the ground. Only problem is that you need detection, and this is ridiculously difficult and unnecessary in a fight.
I'm sure that in Starcraft, there were many glitches that people found, but Blizzard decided that it shouldn't exist. Anyways, Blizzard's decision is final, and if they decide to keep this, I will let it go, but until they make that decision, I will not accept this as a micro trick.
just consider this the zerg equivalent of DTs or cloaked banshees - they severely punish the opponent if they dont have any observers. burrow and claws such against anything else due to the cost and time of both upgrades.
chokes also favor protoss since they can easily storm or FF, this should help even it up. as for other units not getting stuck, keep in mind that colossi are not tanks, lings, nor any other unit. they can also move over other ground units and cliffs.
using burrowed roaches to stop colossi also require skill, unlike what some may believe because keep in mind that for every roach burrowed you have one less fighting unit, and precise positioning is required. you can't just burrow a roach anywhere on the map and instantly stop all colossi or anything like that. you have to actually move the roaches in a way that they block the colossi while also making sure you have enough units left over to kill whatever the protoss has.
finally, there is no clear distinction between glitch and trick but the general consensus seems to be that if blizzard has not officially announced whether something was intended or not, it would be judged by its effects. if the move in question was game breaking, it would be a glitch. otherwise, a trick. i personally think that it's not game breaking enough to be called a glitch, but frankly, it doesn't matter what anyone ASSUMES. why don't we just wait a while for the trick to be used, and then lets judge whether or not its broken?
I hadn't thought about that. Yes, it requires some level skill to get it in position. I just dislike how in order to achieve this level of harass, we get a specific unit, whose sole purpose is to block this other specific unit. And on some maps, you can actually block all Colossi. It's more like the Colossi hit an invisible wall, and that other burrowed units block pathing.
I believe that just because a 'trick' is nice, has many possibilities, and could be used to great effect, doesn't mean it should exist.
nice post =] i was waiting eagerly for threads like this one! i renamed your thread, because i suspect that this is more a straight up error instead of a unintended game-enhancing nuance.
On August 08 2010 11:05 vica wrote: Fazing, is again, part of the Void Ray design, not a bug or a glitch. It was intentional, but no one realized it.
Since when did Blizzard say it was intentional? They specifically said they were going to fix it. My take on fazing is that it's an unintended side effect of the implementation of their weapon; namely the fact that it does damage in ticks and also immediately when it begins to fire. The person who implemented the weapon simply neglected to account for the fact that rapidly switching targets can bypass the natural delay of each tick of damage.
On August 08 2010 11:05 vica wrote: Fazing, is again, part of the Void Ray design, not a bug or a glitch. It was intentional, but no one realized it.
Since when did Blizzard say it was intentional? They specifically said they were going to fix it. My take on fazing is that it's an unintended side effect of the implementation of their weapon; namely the fact that it does damage in ticks and also immediately when it begins to fire. The person who implemented the weapon simply neglected to account for the fact that rapidly switching targets can bypass the natural delay of each tick of damage.
I thought the design was intentional when they made it so that it doesn't lose as much of its charge when switching from building to building and they didn't think of quickly switching targets. I never saw where they said they were going to fix it though, so I may be mistaken.
PhiliBiRD United States. August 08 2010 08:18.Posts 438 Profile # why do people make guides to exploit bugs? do they not see how this is a horrible idea.
You are a moron.
Your statement is equivalent to an employee holding knowledge of an exploitable bug in windows but not publicly announcing it - keeping it well hidden, however still exploitable and hence multiple times more dangerous to it's users.
It's definitely not game breaking. An Observer or Storm fixes that, or maybe you could do a throwback to the Archon shooting at a friendly Zealot over a Lurker trick, with an Archon (for kicks) or a Colussus (since you'd have one).
Based on that alone I'd say it doesn't need to be patched out. For every situation where it seems OP, there may be one where it doesn't and it's kind of cool, and funny.
Please keep this Blizzard, wait to see if it is game breaking or not- or if it really causes any problems. If it does cause problems, then patch it- if it turns out to be a cool trick then keep it. Please don't be overly hasty!
Well, seeing as a colossus is made from a robo factory, the protoss player should have atleast 1 observer out scouting around or with your forces. If the zerg player wasnt paying full attention to the protoss force while it was moving out the zerg player could lose a lot of roaches before he has time to react.
If this were to happen to me i'd just sit right there until i got an obs with my army if i didnt already.
On August 08 2010 12:05 intrigue wrote: nice post =] i was waiting eagerly for threads like this one! i renamed your thread, because i suspect that this is more a straight up error instead of a unintended game-enhancing nuance.
Bless you for the crap that people spew "working as intended" when anything but what they want works. Maybe it will be patched, maybe it won't. But working as intended posts really need the fricken hammer.
You're talking about exploiting a glitch that requires a lack of observers when the protoss player is going robo tech? Minor issue, it'll get patched and won't be exploited at all.
Tbh the glitch posts are really not contributing to the thread. No-one in their right minds would argue that this is not an unintended flaw in the game-engine, so now we've got that straight. This thread can however uncover those rare situations when this flaw could be used in the game and if it could add depth to the game or if it's just an annoying bug. The more we uncover here, the more material blizzard have to work with deciding to fix this or not.
I'd be impressed if I saw this used in a game in a similar situation: A midgame PvZ a couple of pushes have already occured and the protoss player have lost a couple of observers in the zerg base. The protoss is now threatening with a colossi supported push and the zerg have only got hydralisks left to defend as they lost their ling/roach and most of their corruptors in the previous encounter. Now the zerg player sacrifices his last couple of corruptors to snipe the last observer and plants a line of burrowed roaches so the protoss player can't move out with his colossi which in turn gives the zerg player enough time to rebuild his forces.
On August 08 2010 13:21 Stropheum wrote: You're talking about exploiting a glitch that requires a lack of observers when the protoss player is going robo tech? Minor issue, it'll get patched and won't be exploited at all.
Observer over Turret in BW is negated if the opponent looks at his minimap and presses one button. Doesn't mean it wasn't useful in certain scenarios.
Why would anyone want this to stay in the game? Even if it is a neat "secret" that adds nuance and skill to the game... it doesn't make any sense, and it looks stupid. Burrowed units should be easier to walk over, not harder. And it only works with these specific combination of units? It looks and feels like a glitch, and it breaks the illusion that these are actually mighty alien warriors fighting.
The mutalisk stacking trick, on the other hand, does not decrease the "cool factor" of the game at all. An observer could watch that and still imagine "real" mutalisks behaving that way. These mutalisks learned how to fly in formation! Neat! Similarly, it's easy to imagine elite lurkers learning how to ignore certain scouting units so that they can better ambush their prime targets.
That's the real difference between an "unintended consequence" and a "glitch".
On August 08 2010 22:59 T0fuuu wrote: dont patch it. the collossus shouldnt even be allowed to walk over ur own units.
The mighty colossilisk! Or it would be might if it could path around or through your t1 units.
I do not see how this is different than many of the tricks in BW. Easier to counter, hard to pull off. Until it makes a difference in a in a game with pros (or blizz sees enough QQ threads on their forums) I believe it should be left alone. I am all for balance chances (aka zerg buffs :3) but the game should be left alone to an extent so it can evolve on its own without players having to recompensate for different gameplay every week.
Interesting. Colossi are now pseudo-detectors! Hahahahaha
I don't see it become really all that game breakign considering how most good protoss will have an obs with their army to tumor clear anyways. It's kinda like obs over turret from BW. Interesting, potentially overpowered on paper, but nearly-utterly useless in actual games.
On August 08 2010 13:21 Stropheum wrote: You're talking about exploiting a glitch that requires a lack of observers when the protoss player is going robo tech? Minor issue, it'll get patched and won't be exploited at all.
Observer over Turret in BW is negated if the opponent looks at his minimap and presses one button. Doesn't mean it wasn't useful in certain scenarios.
Actually, you had to press stop around 40 billion times for it work, which was really fucking frustrating.
EPT![[image loading]](http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/9206/5f06db92055859.jpg)
This at least make protoss have observer with his army... Currently only zerg is quite forced to have one vs terran (ghost banshee) vs toss (dark templar) whats the invisible zerg unit? I hope they make thor unable to move becouse of roach trap 
.
