A few other players brought up a some points that might have been overlooked by other posters.

A good zerg can cancel and rebuild at a fast enough rate to probably match the hp of an assim.

Differences in price is also an issue.

And unless gameplay is being scewed so heavily, blizz wont just make a change baesd on observations. Blizz increased zealot time(for awhile) because 2 gateing seemed too strong. They nerfed forge hp and buildtime because cannon rushes were happening too much. Unless gas steals are getting really popular and a change needs to happen, a bunch of guys on a forum can't convince them to make any changes.

WIth that being said, i need to look into some gas steal builds

Itsarabbit

Sweden58 Posts

August 03 2010 17:33 GMT

#43

Who cares? It's not like you will be going: OMGHE'SDESTROYINGMYREFINERYRAGEQUIT!!
And if you think it is like that(without my exaggeration), you are only enhancing the argument "Toss really needs gas".

nttea

Sweden4353 Posts

August 03 2010 17:34 GMT

#44

Jesus christ what are those assimilators made of anyway? what if they used the same technique on their pylons? omfg :D

Wonderballs

Canada253 Posts

August 03 2010 17:40 GMT

#45

Assimilators are much harder to kill than Refineries or Extractors. Making delayed gas or delayed aggression game changing if the oponent somehow capitalizes on it. I don't think it is a GIGANTIC deal, but if it came down to if the terran was restricted to killing off the gas steal with his 1st marine there could be those 10 extra seconds that change the game.

extra HP on gas is nothing in the grand scheme of things (over the billions of games that will be played), but when you have the possibility of losing a tournament because some programmer was too lazy too normalize the hp on gas buildings (unless there is a valid reason it's that much higher) then I think it may be appropriate to look into these seeminly meaningless things.

figq

12519 Posts

August 03 2010 17:41 GMT

#46

Thanks for bringing this up, sounds like an overlooked mistake to me, now that I think about it. It should rather be something like 300/300. Perhaps ask on battle.net, Blizzard seem to read and respond there.

Compared to SC1, they nerfed the life of both extractor and refinery by 33%, but "forgot" (?) to nerf the assimilator and it remained the same life/shield as in SC1. These nerfs are logical, since now two gas facilities replace the function of one.
SC1 - R: 750, E: 750, A: 450/450
SC2 - R: 500, E: 500, A: 450/450
note the perfect balance of the prices:
SC1 - R: 100, E: 50(+50), A: 100
SC2 - R: 75, E: 25(+50), A: 75
clearly in SC2 these gas facilities (as they get half-functionality of sc1) get 33% less HP, and are 25% cheaper. The only exception stands out.

Of course, protoss usually have HP+shield > HP of other race, but not that much bigger as in this case. Not double, no way.

RageOverdose

United States690 Posts

August 03 2010 17:43 GMT

#47

I think the reason could be because Protoss, aside from having units there, has no effective way of keeping the Assimilators alive when they take damage. Terran can repair and Zerg can Transfuse. Protoss has nothing. So it has less than double HP, and actually it's even a bit weaker than that since only 450 of it gets the affect of the building armor, although to be fair, you can upgrade the shields over the course of the game. By a similar note, Terran can also increase building armor to 3 with an upgrade, and Zerg are still just stuck with Transfusion.

If it's such a glaring imbalance, just increase the other two to 600 or 650. But it seems like a non-issue.

Sly

Canada95 Posts

August 03 2010 18:01 GMT

#48

I like how ppl are saying maybe it was an oversight, do u really think that'd take the time to change the hp of the terran and zerg gas buildings and then just completely ignore the protoss, and be like opsy... guess we missed that one.

tho it should prob come down a lil, but still once it loses health its lost. u can't ever bring it back to full hp, but still thats pretty high.

Xyik

Canada728 Posts

August 03 2010 18:07 GMT

#49

I'm pretty sure this is a mistake. It's one building in the game very few people would ever analyze for balance. There is NO reason to justify an assimilator having double the hp. More P imba ftl.

ckw

United States1018 Posts

August 03 2010 18:11 GMT

#50

On August 03 2010 22:18 Necrosjef wrote:
Seems to make sense in my mind that Zerg and Terran extractors would be weaker than Protoss ones.

Protoss really rely on 2 gas for almost all of their viable builds. Terran and Zerg getting gas stolen isn't really a huge problem for most builds as the gas heavy units don't really arrive until tier 2. Protoss have sentries almost immediately which are 100 gas.

How does that make it fair that the HP is WAY higher? When a Protoss steals your gas, do you know how long it takes for a single marine to kill it? Long.

Monokeros

United States2493 Posts

August 03 2010 18:23 GMT

#51

CharlieMurphy ditched this thread on page one, I don't think this is going to keep going much longer...

BlueyD

Canada437 Posts

August 03 2010 18:28 GMT

#52

As a Protoss player, I really wouldn't mind if assimilator was nerfed 33%, back to 300/300. It's just not something which has a very big impact. If you're targeting an assimilator, you're probably in one of two situations: Either you've already killed the nexus or it's a gas steal situation. As a Protoss who wants his 2 gas geysers, I don't mind if gas steal is a bit weaker.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

August 04 2010 00:21 GMT

#53

On August 04 2010 03:23 Monokeros wrote:
CharlieMurphy ditched this thread on page one, I don't think this is going to keep going much longer...

I didn't ditch it, I went to sleep.
I'm not really seeing a good argument for why the life is so high. I'm really inclined to believe that it was simply just an oversight because like other people mentioned, it's just something that is seemingly a nonfactor in most games that they just goofed up.

I'd also like to mention that a very high percentage of my balance/theory/issue whatever you wanna call them that I bring up in the sc2 forum were patched accordingly. If you'd like I can hunt down old posts that have dates before balancing took place.

MattDamon

United States59 Posts

August 04 2010 00:39 GMT

#54

I've herd this before and I still believe this is unbalanced.

It is not a big deal but it does piss me off for gas steal. Protoss already does not require a worker to stay on/ become the building so I don't see why this is.

I also don't like the fact that TvP is the only match up I get to use nukes in, and one nuke does not destroy the protoss gas, (One nuke kills a terran or zergs gas, I'm pretty sure) so it makes nukes less powerful imo.

It's silly and does not make a huge deal but still unbalanced.

Chizambers

United States126 Posts

August 04 2010 00:53 GMT

#55

On August 04 2010 00:49 jpaugh78 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hatcheries are only 300 actually.

Technically Hatches are 350, since you lose the drone, which cost 50 minerals. You pretty much add 50 minerals to the cost of all Zerg buildings since you lose drones.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

August 04 2010 03:37 GMT

#56

On August 04 2010 09:39 MattDamon wrote:
I've herd this before and I still believe this is unbalanced.

It is not a big deal but it does piss me off for gas steal. Protoss already does not require a worker to stay on/ become the building so I don't see why this is.

I also don't like the fact that TvP is the only match up I get to use nukes in, and one nuke does not destroy the protoss gas, (One nuke kills a terran or zergs gas, I'm pretty sure) so it makes nukes less powerful imo.

It's silly and does not make a huge deal but still unbalanced.

those are good points actually.