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Void Rays - Totally awesome tricks. - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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JamSan
Profile Joined June 2010
4 Posts
July 05 2010 14:00 GMT
#101
Charged rays definitely don't do any damage immediately, allowing you to maintain charge on your own units/structures as in this video:


Using this technique 1 void ray beats 4 unmicroed marines with combat shield, even stimmed. Its great fun to use.

Also, first post
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
July 05 2010 14:00 GMT
#102
On July 05 2010 22:47 Illva wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 22:43 MorroW wrote:
On July 05 2010 22:39 SexyBimbo wrote:
Agree, this kind of stuff is lacking yet necessary. The more micro the merrier and honestly - if they can fix this so you can only "faze" (really like that =D) when uncharged I don't see this being imba.

Then again I lack the understanding of the gamemechanics to predict if it is even possible to make fazinh impossible when charged whilst leaving the uncharged rays unaffected.

Don't remove, "balance the bug" (interesting concept, Morrow ^^).

This reminds me of me killing off workers 1v1 by abusing the SCV-attack-spamming which made them attack that little bit faster. =)

SB

ye dude everything is possible with the editor :D

in bw u could see it as bugs or features, half glass full or half glass empty. why remove it if its imba when u can balance it?

they should bring back the scv bug, atm scvs are so damn weak and proxi gates are so hard to kill off with scvs :D
muta stack is something that i wanted at start, but after beta stage 1 i realized how thor heavy terrans are nowadays and how non-existent mutas are in pvz that it would only harm the game without much to gain


sure you can have that if they nerf EMP :D

i wouldnt mind the emp projectile being faster. atm a monkey could emp a toss army. projectile like vessel emp would be awesome, although they would have to nerf feedback then but this is offtopic.
im gonna try out this fazing some vs some computer units on the editor
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
bbsss
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands163 Posts
July 05 2010 14:02 GMT
#103
On July 05 2010 19:52 youngminii wrote:
The damage done by this trick does not scale with the speed of your clicking.

What's actually happening is that the attack is being 'split' into two, targetting the two hydras. The problem is, when it's 'split' the damage itself isn't being split so it deals full damage to the two hydras. But it only attacks them both once per 0.6 seconds (the cooldown).

So while it still does twice the amount of damage it should be doing, it most certainly does not scale with click speed. That's why all three hydras die at the same time in the video.

Is this it?

Isn't it that the void rays are doing their initial damage over and over again for as fast as they change targets?
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
July 05 2010 14:04 GMT
#104
On July 05 2010 23:00 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 22:47 Illva wrote:
On July 05 2010 22:43 MorroW wrote:
On July 05 2010 22:39 SexyBimbo wrote:
Agree, this kind of stuff is lacking yet necessary. The more micro the merrier and honestly - if they can fix this so you can only "faze" (really like that =D) when uncharged I don't see this being imba.

Then again I lack the understanding of the gamemechanics to predict if it is even possible to make fazinh impossible when charged whilst leaving the uncharged rays unaffected.

Don't remove, "balance the bug" (interesting concept, Morrow ^^).

This reminds me of me killing off workers 1v1 by abusing the SCV-attack-spamming which made them attack that little bit faster. =)

SB

ye dude everything is possible with the editor :D

in bw u could see it as bugs or features, half glass full or half glass empty. why remove it if its imba when u can balance it?

they should bring back the scv bug, atm scvs are so damn weak and proxi gates are so hard to kill off with scvs :D
muta stack is something that i wanted at start, but after beta stage 1 i realized how thor heavy terrans are nowadays and how non-existent mutas are in pvz that it would only harm the game without much to gain


sure you can have that if they nerf EMP :D

i wouldnt mind the emp projectile being slower. atm a monkey could emp a toss army. projectile like vessel emp would be awesome, although they would have to nerf feedback then but this is offtopic.
im gonna try out this fazing some vs some computer units on the editor


Fixed.
I also must agree that EMP is currently pretty bland and needs some work.
I'll call Nada.
[RB]Black
Profile Joined July 2004
United States55 Posts
July 05 2010 14:07 GMT
#105
imagine this early game on queens.. 2 queens no longer blocks voids as effectively...
Pebble
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany326 Posts
July 05 2010 14:11 GMT
#106
On July 05 2010 23:07 [RB]Black wrote:
imagine this early game on queens.. 2 queens no longer blocks voids as effectively...


So this can be gamebreaking in PvZ :/
3:50 PM jaedung: scouting is useless in sc2
JamSan
Profile Joined June 2010
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-05 14:23:11
July 05 2010 14:20 GMT
#107
On July 05 2010 23:11 Pebble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 23:07 [RB]Black wrote:
imagine this early game on queens.. 2 queens no longer blocks voids as effectively...


So this can be gamebreaking in PvZ :/


The key to combatting this is outmicroing your opponent. If the void ray accidentally charges to stage 2 for instance, they can no longer use this technique. Also, keeping your queens far apart makes this much harder to accomplish.
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
July 05 2010 14:38 GMT
#108
On July 05 2010 23:02 bbsss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 19:52 youngminii wrote:
The damage done by this trick does not scale with the speed of your clicking.

What's actually happening is that the attack is being 'split' into two, targetting the two hydras. The problem is, when it's 'split' the damage itself isn't being split so it deals full damage to the two hydras. But it only attacks them both once per 0.6 seconds (the cooldown).

So while it still does twice the amount of damage it should be doing, it most certainly does not scale with click speed. That's why all three hydras die at the same time in the video.

Is this it?

Isn't it that the void rays are doing their initial damage over and over again for as fast as they change targets?


he just took a post to explain it wasn't that. their attack doesn't repeatedly restart, it just switches target mid attack and both units recieve the damage tick.
Nokeboy
Profile Joined December 2008
United States1009 Posts
July 05 2010 14:38 GMT
#109
On July 05 2010 22:14 Woyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 21 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              05 2010 21      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:51 MorroW wrote:
really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro!
if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 05 2010 20:08 youngminii wrote:
So I finished recording the useless trick I discovered earlier. Remember, it's literally useless.



Here's what happens.

A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.

Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.

I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.

Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.

If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta



nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play!
now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?


Surely this means we cant micro such as this:



Because the other units will take the damage. that seems broken to me?

Moon is a god, no one else can do that anyways!
Grond
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
599 Posts
July 05 2010 14:52 GMT
#110
Testing vs small groups of Hydras doesn't account for lost DPS by not charging up. Please repeat the test with 2 groups of 3+ Ultras so we can get a good comparison.
Allegria
Profile Joined July 2010
Switzerland83 Posts
July 05 2010 15:06 GMT
#111
On July 05 2010 19:52 youngminii wrote:
The damage done by this trick does not scale with the speed of your clicking.

What's actually happening is that the attack is being 'split' into two, targetting the two hydras. The problem is, when it's 'split' the damage itself isn't being split so it deals full damage to the two hydras. But it only attacks them both once per 0.6 seconds (the cooldown).

So while it still does twice the amount of damage it should be doing, it most certainly does not scale with click speed. That's why all three hydras die at the same time in the video.



Wouldn't this mean that with every additional unit the enemy has, the potential damage increase of this method increases, too?
So if you managed to click 4 Units in those 0.6s, wouldn't all of them take damage, followed by a second portion after the first 0.6s are over and you start a new "round" of clicks?

This would obviously only work if it isn't the Attack, that is splitted, but the COOLDOWN of its damage TICK on every unit.

what would you say?
rS.Sinatra
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada785 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-05 15:07:35
July 05 2010 15:06 GMT
#112
This definitely does not work for void-rays, however, has anybody thought about or tested Sentries? I have a feeling they might not work as advertised...

edit: also... voidray has no graphical cool down, but it does have a damage cool down, damage is not constant overtime but comes in quick bursts overtime...
www.rsgaming.com
mufin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States616 Posts
July 05 2010 15:27 GMT
#113
instead of switching targets with the voidray, couldn't you just give it the stop command and then tell it to attack since your just abusing the initial damage tick. It would probably be faster to micro then clicking between multiple targets.



I only make 5 actions per minute. But since I use all my time deliberating and planning, my 5 actions are so brutally devastating that children cry out and grown men weep.
lazyo
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany90 Posts
July 05 2010 15:33 GMT
#114
I just want to remind all the imba-criers in this thread how easy it is to counter this.
All you need to do is keep your units moving. You can either patrol+hold spam to keep them spread while moving around, or have one half standing+shooting and the other moving in alteration. That makes it almost impossible to spam click your units and should not allow all void rays to get into range for trick 2.
Problem solved?
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
July 05 2010 15:38 GMT
#115
The shift-queueing explains why Void Rays become so ridiculously strong once you have a TON of them - their attack cooldown decreases when they can one-shot everything.

Blizz actually needs to fix this. Now.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
July 05 2010 15:48 GMT
#116
This is actually a pretty cool find, Faze! Can't wait to try it out on the noob players on b.net 2.0 ;P
Also, If no one else calls if Fazing, I certainly will! =D
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
July 05 2010 16:08 GMT
#117
Crazy/neat find....but I really hope they fix this fast.
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
iewgnem
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-05 16:14:39
July 05 2010 16:14 GMT
#118
I can imagine every toss playing twilight fortress mass VRs with attack upgrades and melt any incoming force instantly while thinking how pro he is at microing. Actually mass upgraded VRs melt hydras and vikings even without this micro so long you have enough so that even A-attack instantly kills a unit, I've seen it happen, but didn't understood why it only worked sometimes until now.

Jenslyn87
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark527 Posts
July 05 2010 16:34 GMT
#119
Nefr fazing...!
Hmmm, I wonder what terran is doiAAAAARGH BANSHEEEEES
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
July 05 2010 16:36 GMT
#120
Easily fixed if it should be fixed, just make it so the void ray can't switch targets instantly.
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