On July 05 2010 20:08 youngminii wrote: So I finished recording the useless trick I discovered earlier. Remember, it's literally useless.
Here's what happens.
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
What happens is that the projectiles switches target mid air, however when you brought in the sentry you put it to far away for the projectiles to be able to switch before impact. TBH this seems more like a feature than a bug, but perhaps it is.
^ Not true. I've done quite a bit more testing than shown in the video. Units that are not the same never get hit by the projectiles. Also it only looks as if the projectile changes direction in midair, that animation has absolutely nothing to do with it. Even if you only have the single Zealot there, it depends on when exactly you pick up the Zealot that determines the projectile animation. Sometimes it'll 'bounce' up to the dropship and sometimes it'll stay on course. It all depends on the time you pick up the Zealot, has nothing to do with damage done.
On July 05 2010 20:24 Geiko wrote: How on earth do you get that zealot to board the warp prism so fast ??
hotkey stalkers as 1 hotkey prism as 2 hit 1 - a, then click on the stalker and really fast hit 2 - right click. should be pretty easy for anyone to pull off in that kinda setting.
Anyway, to people complaining that its a ridiculous 'exploit'... i suppose you hated muta stacking in broodwar as well huh =\. This community as a whole is kinda funny, people complain about how the game doesnt have enough depth compared to bw and how theres no fun 'micro' aspects, then when we start discovering the things that will give the game depth, half of you scream exploit and demand it be removed... We have no idea how much this actually breaks the balance of pvt/pvz/pvp, and we wont know until a good player starts utilizing it in his play.
If VR can't do this while charged then it's no biggie. VR only become death rays when they charge up - I'd still rather charge on an extractor and then go to town without having to spend so much apm on this and keep macroing.
On July 05 2010 20:24 youngminii wrote: ^ Not true. I've done quite a bit more testing than shown in the video. Units that are not the same never get hit by the projectiles. Also it only looks as if the projectile changes direction in midair, that animation has absolutely nothing to do with it. Even if you only have the single Zealot there, it depends on when exactly you pick up the Zealot that determines the projectile animation. Sometimes it'll 'bounce' up to the dropship and sometimes it'll stay on course. It all depends on the time you pick up the Zealot, has nothing to do with damage done.
Awright, it still seems like a really weird thing to accidently program in.
If blizzard does "fix" this new discovery of the void ray, it would change the unit quite a bit if you think about it. Your taking advantage of how the void ray attacks or does its damage. If a fix is coming, its definitely not going to be in the form of "lol void rays don't do damage with their beam until 1 second after they start firing".. They may even have to do a complete redesign like they did in patch 8 if they think the technique is broken enough.
Personally, I'm all for these nice little perks that people figure out about specific units that make them stronger then what people believed. The OP found one for void rays, but its just as likely that tomorrow someone finds something like this for terran or zerg.
On July 05 2010 20:24 youngminii wrote: ^ Not true. I've done quite a bit more testing than shown in the video. Units that are not the same never get hit by the projectiles. Also it only looks as if the projectile changes direction in midair, that animation has absolutely nothing to do with it. Even if you only have the single Zealot there, it depends on when exactly you pick up the Zealot that determines the projectile animation. Sometimes it'll 'bounce' up to the dropship and sometimes it'll stay on course. It all depends on the time you pick up the Zealot, has nothing to do with damage done.
Sounds like the projectiles are assignated to a name (the destination of the projectiles) and when the unit is picked up by the prism, the damage is wrongly put on a unit with the same name as assignated to the projectiles. Very strange nonetheless to make such a misstake when programming that.
It sounds like the code might attempt to apply the damage using some form of the unit name and position. I.e. Damage Zealot at position 3,4. If the Zealot is in the void ray then the damage is not applied. However if there is another unit in close proximity with the same name that unit takes the damage instead.
If I'm correct then it MIGHT also be possible to get the wrong unit to take damage if they are moving quickly when the shot lands.
Another thought, have you tried units of the same armor type next to each other? Like a High Templar next to a Dark Templar.
On July 05 2010 20:00 Ftrunkz wrote: since zerg players nowadays are relying solely on their queens to defend any early voidray shenanigans, considering its usually small # skirmishes (eg, 1-3 voids against 2-5 queens), this trick changes that dynamic maaaaassively, will be interesting to see how zergs have to respond now.
I agree. I see at least some potential for this trick in early PvZ battles, voidray vs queens or voidray/phoenix vs queen/hydra. I have enough trouble with that as it is.
I would think it depends on how hard or micro intensive it is though. If it is nigh on impossible and very likely to fail, people will probably prefer just keeping their voidrays charged.
Pretty funny how these kind of things work sometimes. You try to design a unit made to take down massive units and you end up with something which kills a bunch of small units very fast
I'm not sure if this has been said already or not, but:
Doesn't this make fast Voidrays Vs. a Zerg extremely imbalanced?
As soon as they get 2 Voidrays, send them over to the Zerg base, charge up on rocks or whatever...and then go to town on drones and even queens. This 'trick' makes a second queen useless in a way, as they will drop at the same time now, even with healing.
I suppose you can still pop up spore crawlers...but even so, this does put the Zerg at a disadvantage rather quickly.
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
Woah, really strange bug. This needs to be fixed ASAP =/
yeah, it needs to be at least on top of the "bugs to fixed list". this is extremly urgent!!!!! im so happy that you are not in the position to decide which bugs are fixed at what point. T_T
On July 05 2010 21:09 Klive5ive wrote: It sounds like the code might attempt to apply the damage using some form of the unit name and position. I.e. Damage Zealot at position 3,4. If the Zealot is in the void ray then the damage is not applied. However if there is another unit in close proximity with the same name that unit takes the damage instead.
If I'm correct then it MIGHT also be possible to get the wrong unit to take damage if they are moving quickly when the shot lands.
Another thought, have you tried units of the same armor type next to each other? Like a High Templar next to a Dark Templar.
It would imply that the code use only the position of the zealot when the shot start and if there isn't anything at this position when the shot lands then it extends the position, maybe in a circle with an increasing radius, until it finds a unit with the correct name, then it applies the damages to that unit, or until the radius hits a certain value, then the shot is lost.
I think this would apply to Sentries aswell. The only downside (that I can see) to doing the trick with the void rays is that their beams dont charge up.
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
Hehe.. things that people discover when bored.. I must say that its a nice find As far as I can tell, its certainly a bug. How does it go when you put 2 observers a little bit further away from eachother?
EPT
