really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
On July 05 2010 20:08 youngminii wrote: So I finished recording the useless trick I discovered earlier. Remember, it's literally useless.
Here's what happens.
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
Yeah, it always makes me smile when someone finds something like this. There have been a few discoveries of these little mistakes, I just hope that Blizzard is smart enough to realize that BW would've been awful without it's bugs so they'll leave them in in SC2.
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
That bug should be fixed. There is no reason for it. We shouldn't discriminate between similar units. That is obviously a bad bug. If you micro properly you should be rewarded. As a result, I would keep the VR bug in because there is an opportunity cost (it takes heavy focus).
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
Agreed. This doesn't seem to massively change any dynamics; instead, it adds a bit of variety by forcing players to use more than one kind of unit in their dropships.
youngminii mentioned he did fairly extensive testing, so I would assume he tried more than one kind of attacking unit and this doesn't apply to just stalkers. I hope. It's a very small bug otherwise.
VRs have no cooldown when they're charged, so no, not really. Technically players already knew about this and would keep changing targets or have their own VRs attack one another to keep their full charge as it does more damage. However, we didn't really know the differential of the output (two hydras dying compared to the one).
I'd expect this patched mainly not because of balance but because it's highly unintuitive. The expected behavior here is clearly that switching your target constantly divides the damage evenly among the targets, instead of doing full damage to all targets.
Plus, double damage output *is* huge. If voidrays are rebalanced for this trick, they'll become very underpowered without it. If they're balanced without the trick, they're overpowered with it (in the hands of a good player).
Edit: For further emphasis, imagine marines or dragoons in BW always firing instantly every time you change their target (effectively increasing their attack speed dramatically). That would be broken, right? I don't see how this is any different.
Who wanna bet that this can be done with the "ice cubes machine" too? Er... I meant the sentry. I'm gonna test this evening.
EDIT
On July 05 2010 21:36 divinesage wrote: Speaking of which, this should apply to Sentries as well right? Or do sentries use a different mechanic for their attacks?
On July 05 2010 21:38 Philip2110 wrote: I think this would apply to Sentries aswell. The only downside (that I can see) to doing the trick with the void rays is that their beams dont charge up.
On July 05 2010 21 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 05 2010 21 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
Surely this means we cant micro such as this:
Because the other units will take the damage. that seems broken to me?
Cant wait to go to town on queens with this. I cant remember tho, does two rays kill two queens if you micro back the hurt one while the first one charges up? Does two rays win vs two queens with this?
Gonna have to try this out.
Also I dont think this CAN be changed without having serius impact on the void ray. Isnt this ability a consequence of moving and shooting at the same time? Thats one of the great things about the ray and if they removed the insta damage they would at the same time remove its moving shot wouldnt they?
Someone has to test this on sentries aswell, but if im not wrong sentries has a delay before damage and thats also the reason why they dont move shot?
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
That bug should be fixed. There is no reason for it. We shouldn't discriminate between similar units. That is obviously a bad bug. If you micro properly you should be rewarded. As a result, I would keep the VR bug in because there is an opportunity cost (it takes heavy focus).
ah maybe i didnt make myself clear fazing i like alot and want to keep it. its so similar to a halo 2 bug which i noticed that u melee attacked faster if u switched weapon between every attack. discovered that bug with my friends and i always won the melee battles :D its so awesome with bugs that encourage micro
altough im almost 100% sure this will get removed by blizzard. its clearly imbalanced. imagine just loading full attack vs a supply then 5 stimmed marines come and u can own them in 1-2 seconds when normally u would die
the dropship part is something i dislike and want to be changed but as a player im very happy someone pointed it out to me because it could be critical when harassing
On July 05 2010 20:24 Geiko wrote: How on earth do you get that zealot to board the warp prism so fast ??
hotkey stalkers as 1 hotkey prism as 2 hit 1 - a, then click on the stalker and really fast hit 2 - right click. should be pretty easy for anyone to pull off in that kinda setting.
Anyway, to people complaining that its a ridiculous 'exploit'... i suppose you hated muta stacking in broodwar as well huh =\. This community as a whole is kinda funny, people complain about how the game doesnt have enough depth compared to bw and how theres no fun 'micro' aspects, then when we start discovering the things that will give the game depth, half of you scream exploit and demand it be removed... We have no idea how much this actually breaks the balance of pvt/pvz/pvp, and we wont know until a good player starts utilizing it in his play.
Exactly....ppl whine there's no micro in SC2 when stuff like muta stacking in BW was based on bugs in the first place. Now they want this removed without even trying it in game to see if its really imbalanced. Contradict much?
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
That bug should be fixed. There is no reason for it. We shouldn't discriminate between similar units. That is obviously a bad bug. If you micro properly you should be rewarded. As a result, I would keep the VR bug in because there is an opportunity cost (it takes heavy focus).
ah maybe i didnt make myself clear fazing i like alot and want to keep it. its so similar to a halo 2 bug which i noticed that u melee attacked faster if u switched weapon between every attack. discovered that bug with my friends and i always won the melee battles :D its so awesome with bugs that encourage micro
altough im almost 100% sure this will get removed by blizzard. its clearly imbalanced. imagine just loading full attack vs a supply then 5 stimmed marines come and u can own them in 1-2 seconds when normally u would die
the dropship part is something i dislike and want to be changed but as a player im very happy someone pointed it out to me because it could be critical when harassing
Im pretty sure charged rays has a delay when switching between targets, it just doesnt wanna let go, so if this is only non charged rays would you still dislike it? Also who doesnt hate cs:source because you cant insta silencer with double q tap +duck hop, muta stacking, voidray "fazing"? all good games needs this kinda stuff
Edit: dont mean dislike, I meant think blizz will remove
On July 05 2010 21:51 MorroW wrote: really awesome find. i hope they wont remove this bug because i encourage bugs to 100% to improve your micro! if its too imba then nerf the bug but dont remove it :d
A unit can dodge projectiles if it is picked up by a Warp Prism/Medivac/Overlord, you should know that. Now I do this with a Zealot and some Stalkers. As expected, the Zealot takes no damage. Then I put a second Zealot next to the first Zealot. When I repeat the experiment, the second Zealot takes all the damage.
Now I take away the Zealot and bring in a Sentry so that there's a Sentry and a Zealot next to each other. I repeat the experiment and what do you know? None of them take damage. How odd. I take away the remaining Zealot and bring in a second Sentry. Repeat the experiment, the second Sentry takes the damage.
I then bring in a group of Zealots and try the experiment. It seems as if the closest (don't quote me on this) Zealot next to the one that was targeted/picked up takes the damage.
Conclusion: For some reason, only when two or more of the same units are next to each other, the damage that was dodged by the targeted unit is taken by the like unit next to it.
If someone could further test this out and explain the mechanics behind it, I'd be thankful. It's just something I found while doing some bored testing because of the down beta
nono thats not useless, thats a really great find that i will remember for sure when i play! now i know that i cant drop 2 tanks from medivac and dodge micro against marauders with 2 tanks out at the same time, or does this only work like this for stalkers?
That bug should be fixed. There is no reason for it. We shouldn't discriminate between similar units. That is obviously a bad bug. If you micro properly you should be rewarded. As a result, I would keep the VR bug in because there is an opportunity cost (it takes heavy focus).
ah maybe i didnt make myself clear fazing i like alot and want to keep it. its so similar to a halo 2 bug which i noticed that u melee attacked faster if u switched weapon between every attack. discovered that bug with my friends and i always won the melee battles :D its so awesome with bugs that encourage micro
altough im almost 100% sure this will get removed by blizzard. its clearly imbalanced. imagine just loading full attack vs a supply then 5 stimmed marines come and u can own them in 1-2 seconds when normally u would die
the dropship part is something i dislike and want to be changed but as a player im very happy someone pointed it out to me because it could be critical when harassing
Im pretty sure charged rays has a delay when switching between targets, it just doesnt wanna let go, so if this is only non charged rays would you still dislike it? Also who doesnt hate cs:source because you cant insta silencer with double q tap +duck hop, muta stacking, voidray "fazing"? all good games needs this kinda stuff
Edit: dont mean dislike, I meant think blizz will remove
i said i like the voidray but dislike the dropship bug. changing so charged voidrays cant do the "fazing" would be a very good call so only uncharged could do this micro. this would be absolutely amazing and wouldnt break balance at all
edit: saw ur edit now, blizzard would probably not remove it if fazing only worked for uncharged voidrays seeing how uncharged voidrays do like 2 dmg and u gotta spam like a crazy person to make this work. after all only the best of the best players would be able to take use of this. even if ur voidrays could spam like this marines would still beat them, queen already got problem vs them and in battles u wouldnt have apm to do this, so i really dont think that would be a good call by blizzard to disallow fazing for uncharged voidrays
Agree, this kind of stuff is lacking yet necessary. The more micro the merrier and honestly - if they can fix this so you can only "faze" (really like that =D) when uncharged I don't see this being imba.
Then again I lack the understanding of the gamemechanics to predict if it is even possible to make fazinh impossible when charged whilst leaving the uncharged rays unaffected.
Don't remove, "balance the bug" (interesting concept, Morrow ^^).
This reminds me of me killing off workers 1v1 by abusing the SCV-attack-spamming which made them attack that little bit faster. =)
SB
edit:
as to the dropship thingy - I think this sucks, dropship micro is very cool and very rare and this makes it even harder.
On July 05 2010 22:39 SexyBimbo wrote: Agree, this kind of stuff is lacking yet necessary. The more micro the merrier and honestly - if they can fix this so you can only "faze" (really like that =D) when uncharged I don't see this being imba.
Then again I lack the understanding of the gamemechanics to predict if it is even possible to make fazinh impossible when charged whilst leaving the uncharged rays unaffected.
Don't remove, "balance the bug" (interesting concept, Morrow ^^).
This reminds me of me killing off workers 1v1 by abusing the SCV-attack-spamming which made them attack that little bit faster. =)
SB
ye dude everything is possible with the editor :D
in bw u could see it as bugs or features, half glass full or half glass empty. why remove it if its imba when u can balance it?
they should bring back the scv bug, atm scvs are so damn weak and proxi gates are so hard to kill off with scvs :D muta stack is something that i wanted at start, but after beta stage 1 i realized how thor heavy terrans are nowadays and how non-existent mutas are in pvz that it would only harm the game without much to gain
but all and all i definitely agree with the ppl who say bugs improve the game. if each units weapon works differently which sc1 is (and sc2 isnt) then it takes alot longer time to learn and master while low level players cant even notice the difference. if u were a high level sc1 player u would know what i talk about when i say that all units kite differently, target differently and does everything in an unique way. sc2 all units think the same, attack the same, behave the same and no units got special features unlike the voidray or the phoenix :d
On July 05 2010 22:39 SexyBimbo wrote: Agree, this kind of stuff is lacking yet necessary. The more micro the merrier and honestly - if they can fix this so you can only "faze" (really like that =D) when uncharged I don't see this being imba.
Then again I lack the understanding of the gamemechanics to predict if it is even possible to make fazinh impossible when charged whilst leaving the uncharged rays unaffected.
Don't remove, "balance the bug" (interesting concept, Morrow ^^).
This reminds me of me killing off workers 1v1 by abusing the SCV-attack-spamming which made them attack that little bit faster. =)
SB
ye dude everything is possible with the editor :D
in bw u could see it as bugs or features, half glass full or half glass empty. why remove it if its imba when u can balance it?
they should bring back the scv bug, atm scvs are so damn weak and proxi gates are so hard to kill off with scvs :D muta stack is something that i wanted at start, but after beta stage 1 i realized how thor heavy terrans are nowadays and how non-existent mutas are in pvz that it would only harm the game without much to gain
EPT
+duck hop, muta stacking, voidray "fazing"? all good games needs this kinda stuff 
