EPTVoid Rays - Totally awesome tricks. - Page 14
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 06 2010 08:55 kNyTTyM wrote: If this situation occurs, the microing really doesn't make that much of a difference because zerg is basically going to die. First off on a map like desert oasis you should be connecting creep faster then usual and have a 3rd queen. Maps with far naturals (desert, scrap) are big void ray maps so the third queen should be integrated into your strategy especially. Maps with closer positions allow queens to unite fast and the third queen isn't as pivotal. If you don't have the 3rd queen and the creep isn't connected you die so the micro doesn't even matter. He gets control of your base before hydralisks come out. 2 charged void rays will tear through your 3 hydralisks and you are screwed. So the situation you describe is a losing position with or without this technique You're avoiding the point - you asked how it would be a stronger rush. It is nonetheless. Whether or not you should "be prepared" is irrelevant to if it is stronger or not. | ||
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lovewithlea
168 Posts
this is nuts | ||
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Firoso
3 Posts
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Firoso
3 Posts
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DC Elite
United States152 Posts
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InTriX
United Kingdom149 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:03 DC Elite wrote: I cant wade through all the text, but we are sure other instant attacking units dont work like this? The only other instant damage unit i can think of is the siege tank, which would be ridic... Its not just the fact it has instant damage, the void ray is the only unit which has 0 cooldown after its attack. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
theres no need at all for blizzard to remove this, its an awesome trick but it wont cause a problem in the balance | ||
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imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
@imPERSONater Yeah it's disappointing that Zerg seems to be void of neat tricks and opportunities like this, but oh well. | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
a small clip i made to demonstrate fazing and how freaking good ai bots can do it, at one point it reached up to 8 attacks in 1 second while i can max do 4-5 :p sry for the quality being sucky,cant change to windowed mode when playing custom maps without bnet 2 heres another demonstration i made (even worse quality<3) to show how distance doesnt matter in attack speed, only that angle does. stacking and being in a line gave almost same results while surrounding attacked alot slower. circle gave 4-5 attacks per second line 5-8 attacks per second stack 6-8 attacks per second now remember players wont be able to do this as good as ai bots even how much they practice, they can reach almost optimal results but its close to impossible thats why i hope blizzard keeps this because its totally baller to see voidray control now ^^ after it got range nerf the kiting got pretty much removed and there was no micro left but now this is in the game and it should create for some interesting micro scenarios On July 06 2010 23:51 TheFinalWord wrote: This has probably been asked. I know that clicked between 2 units doesn't increase damage beyond a certain speed, but what if you change targets to a whole line of units? If you got a void ray and somehow managed to right click on 10 different enemies in a second, would they all take damage? or is there a limit to how fast it can switch targets? to change target takes a small duration of time, about 0.1 sec but the weapon requires that u look at the enemy when taking initial attack so if u line up 10 marines around the voidray it will take some time for him to turn around while if u put 10 supply depots in a line that pushes out of the voidray and it can attack all supply without moving then ye i think it can attack 10~ attacks in a second, maybe a little less :p its all about how spread out the opponent is | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:52 MorroW wrote: to change target takes a small duration of time, about 0.1 sec but the weapon requires that u look at the enemy when taking initial attack so if u line up 10 marines around the voidray it will take some time for him to turn around while if u put 10 supply depots in a line that pushes out of the voidray and it can attack all supply without moving then ye i think it can attack 10~ attacks in a second, maybe a little less :p its all about how spread out the opponent is Oooh, that seems like it's going to be a fun dynamic going forward. The Void Rays are clicking to change targets while the enemy units are jockeying to surround the void rays and minimize its damage. If Blizzard changes this (which they shouldn't, at least not yet) I hope they just increase the turning time of the void ray or add a delay when switching that's less than the time it takes for the void ray to attack again on a single target. Either way switching should remain the better way of dealing with multiple targets. | ||
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
On July 06 2010 23:52 MorroW wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZKL7PS7lIg a small clip i made to demonstrate fazing and how freaking good ai bots can do it, at one point it reached up to 8 attacks in 1 second while i can max do 4-5 :p sry for the quality being sucky,cant change to windowed mode when playing custom maps without bnet 2 + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN14Nyk18lk heres another demonstration i made (even worse quality<3) to show how distance doesnt matter in attack speed, only that angle does. stacking and being in a line gave almost same results while surrounding attacked alot slower. circle gave 4-5 attacks per second line 5-8 attacks per second stack 6-8 attacks per second now remember players wont be able to do this as good as ai bots even how much they practice, they can reach almost optimal results but its close to impossible thats why i hope blizzard keeps this because its totally baller to see voidray control now ^^ after it got range nerf the kiting got pretty much removed and there was no micro left but now this is in the game and it should create for some interesting micro scenarios to change target takes a small duration of time, about 0.1 sec but the weapon requires that u look at the enemy when taking initial attack so if u line up 10 marines around the voidray it will take some time for him to turn around while if u put 10 supply depots in a line that pushes out of the voidray and it can attack all supply without moving then ye i think it can attack 10~ attacks in a second, maybe a little less :p its all about how spread out the opponent is I've posted this before and if there is no delay in fazing, and a player could change the targets in less than 0.1 sec, it would render a fully charged void ray useful for naked buildings and naked units. Fazing: 5 * 0.1 = 50 DPS Level 3 Fully Charged Void Ray Damage: Against Non-Armored Units: Stage 3: 10(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 16.67 dps (+1.67 per upgrade) Against Armored units: Stage 3: 25(+3) dmg / 0.6sec = 41.67 dps (+5.00 per upgrade) *Taken from liquipedia* As you can see, fazing with non-armored units like the marine is already doing 3 times the damage output of a fully charged beam. It's no wonder why the hydras and marines fell so quickly to fazing. If I was facing a protoss with a fast void, I would need to either get a reactored rax to pump out marines or a quick viking. If I don't do any of those, if he's able to faze well, he'll crush my small marine defense, and then my scvs :O! Where as without fazing, I would probably win with a maybe 4 - 5 marines. If done correctly, a mass of siege tanks, thors, roaches, ultras, vikings, corruptors, slow brood lords, depots, buildings, will fall extremely fast to faze if they're CLUMPED together. If fact if a person could click in under 0.1 sec, fazing would be stronger than a fully upgraded beam which damage output suffers with the need of 13 attacks doing 5 damage at stage 1 and 2. Fazing the damage output starts when you begin switching between units. I am not saying that fazing is imba, NO IT'S NOT IMBA  . In fact, people would need to spread out their units as if it was a baneling mass to lower the damage done. I do like this ability to micro to get a reward of extra damage. More importantly, it breaks this idea of "hard counters" and such. With great micro, void rays now don't lose to marines or hydras (which are meant to counter them) What I want to know is if any other of the races have a unit like it. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On July 06 2010 22:57 lovewithlea wrote: made some tests. 4 voids win vs 14 battleshield marines with fazing about 2-3 VRs left, while 4+ are left of the marines without fazing. this is nuts I don't remember VR cost, how does 4 VRs compare to 700 min + upgrade costs? | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On July 07 2010 01:02 Calamity wrote: I've posted this before and if there is no delay in fazing, and a player could change the targets in less than 0.1 sec, it would render a fully charged void ray useful for naked buildings and naked units. well my vod vs stacked supply depot demonstrates that the absolute maximum attacks per second is 8 which is 0.125attack/s (40dmg/sec) (32dmg/sec vs structures cause of armor) and now stacked buildings cant exist in a melee game and players wouldnt be able to change targets(^^) so that would force the voidray to be in exact same line as the target structures to reach this amount of damage, even an inch wrong direction and ull drop 3~ attacks per second(12dps~) so all and all it takes a huge chunk of skill to make fazing a real threat against marines and compete with fully charged with fazing. even if u got optimal micro its arguable if the fazing is worth money-wise with 1 voidray vs 3+ marines, vs 2 marines its probably very effective | ||
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ultratorr
Canada332 Posts
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
Then wouldn't that mean you could faze single units. Without having to change targets? All you'd have to do is attack, stop, attack stop. In a fashion so each attack would hit, but stop immediately afterwards. The reason why this should work is because it's the exact same process as with fazing two units. You'd attack, and when you attack a different unit, the original attack is stopped, and you attack again before the animation's cooldown would've been over, had you never canceled it. This allows you to get multiple hits in, faster, which is why fazing has a higher damage output. Is this correct? | ||
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