EPTVoid Rays - Totally awesome tricks. - Page 16
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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damiah
United States14 Posts
On July 07 2010 07:30 Whole wrote: I didn't read a few pages of the thread, so forgive me if it has been mentioned before, but can you use this trick against one unit? Lets say it is a Void Ray versus a Hydralisk. Could you "faze" by spamming right click attack or attack move and the stop command? you can't for two reasons. on a mechanics level, try to visualize fazing as "splitting' the damage. you aren't resetting the timer when you switch targets. you are attacking another unit within a 0.6 second window. you can't attack the same unit again in that same window. so this only works against more units. the second reason is mainly a difficulty one, as you actually have to not be facing your target (about 45 degrees in each direction I'd assume) for the the void ray to stop firing. so you'd have to click behind you, and then click in front, and then click behind, and the void ray takes time to turn (note: I don't know if this is just for animation purposes only, so I may be wrong on this one) so it would just become pointless. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On July 07 2010 04:35 Calamity wrote: Read the last few pages I think 13 to 15. We've found that fazing does a lot more damage against non-armored units than letting it charge. Although it's a lot harder to faze against spread out units, and massed small units. Against armored and buildings, a charged beam would work better. They did make void rays have a slow animation when switching targets and attacking in alpha. It opens up the claws at the front and then fires the beam every time. You can see that small units would just murder them xD @ morrow If you could please do :D The jury still seems to be out on the mechanics but if it turns out to be how many times you can click in 0.6 seconds that is going to be a pretty low number after you add in 150-250ms for battlenet lag. I'm sure this will see some more testing when the beta comes back up but from what I know of Void Ray mechanics I predict a perfectly microed Void Ray will do less damage than a charged Void Ray. However it will still be useful against low health targets which makes it interesting. | ||
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PeT[uK]
United States412 Posts
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
On July 07 2010 07:09 damiah wrote: a few points I want to address: someone said that you can't charge on a single marine - you actually can. + Show Spoiler + the void ray, even though it has only two attack levels, it actually still has three stages, it just so happens that the second stage does not add any damage. when you switch targets (or when the target dies), you will always revert back to the stage you were at previously. so, the void ray does 5 damage per .6 seconds. a marine has 45 HP. 40 HP - tick 1 (0.0 seconds) 35 HP - tick 2 (0.6 seconds) 30 HP - tick 3 (1.2 seconds) 25 HP - tick 4 (1.8 seconds) 20 HP - tick 5 (2.4 seconds) 15 HP - tick 6 (3.0 seconds) 10 HP - tick 7 (3.6 seconds) 5 HP - tick 8 (4.2 seconds) 0 HP - tick 9 (4.8 seconds) (forgive me in advance if my math is wrong, but trust me, it works out ingame!) according to the wiki, it takes 7.2 seconds to fully charge a void ray. but remember that there are three "stages" of attack. the void ray, upon killing the marine, is in its second stage (at tick 7, if I'm not mistaken). when the marine dies, the void ray will switch targets, but because it was in its second stage upon killing the marine, it will reset back to that stage (at 3.6 seconds). this means the void ray only has to charge 3.6 seconds on the second marine to reach full charge. only two ticks are "wasted" (tick 8 and 9) in terms of efficiency. of course this would all change if you had three void rays or something, where they would kill the units before reaching their second stage, which would then reset them back to the first stage upon switching targets. tl;dr: a single void ray can reach full charge on any collection of units except for banelings and broodlings. point 2: as others have said, you are merely splitting the damage. you are increasing damage output because you are hitting more targets, but not because you are doing more damage to a single individual target. also, keep in mind that this is only good against lower tier units in which you wouldn't reach level three charge. you wouldn't see this on an Ultralisk or a Carrier, because the tier 3 damage will eventually out-dps the fazing trick. Wait, wouldn't this need two marines to fully charge? The way i'm looking at this is that in a 1 v 1 situation (void ray vs marine) the void ray will not reach stage 3 of it's beam. On July 07 2010 07:57 Grond wrote: The jury still seems to be out on the mechanics but if it turns out to be how many times you can click in 0.6 seconds that is going to be a pretty low number after you add in 150-250ms for battlenet lag. I'm sure this will see some more testing when the beta comes back up but from what I know of Void Ray mechanics I predict a perfectly microed Void Ray will do less damage than a charged Void Ray. However it will still be useful against low health targets which makes it interesting. I guess the only way to confirm the usefulness of fazing is to try it in several games and see how the community would feel about it. So far, we've used this in unit testers and math to come to some theories, but ultimately you can't prove something until you actually play it on beta which needs to go up! | ||
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
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cromat
Afghanistan100 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On July 07 2010 07:57 Grond wrote: The jury still seems to be out on the mechanics but if it turns out to be how many times you can click in 0.6 seconds that is going to be a pretty low number after you add in 150-250ms for battlenet lag. Lag don't reduce your apm one bit, it only makes your action take effect later. So if you click every 100 ms the void will change target every 100 ms, just ~200 ms later than when you clicked. | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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Zero[UK]
United Kingdom34 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
WHY doesn't it work? What is the difference in the attacks? | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On July 08 2010 01:01 Sleight wrote: So I have been told it doesn't work with Sentries but to ask the obvious question... WHY doesn't it work? What is the difference in the attacks? no cooldown VR does damage per tic not damage after cooldown | ||
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Clerseri
Australia150 Posts
On July 07 2010 04:52 DC Elite wrote: This VR thing is a glitch and i dont see it on the same level as simple tricks you could probably figure out without having to do your homework. This isnt a cool trick, its abuse of something that was accidentally missed in coding, plain and simple. I refuse to believe blizz intended for there to be machine gun rate firing of a unit if you could slick faster. I think you're on the wrong track with your logic. There are often things that are glitches that add to gameplay, intentional or not. Glitching units over minerals is another example of something obviously unintentional in BW and hard to find, but useful and interesting once you know it's there. I used to think along your lines, and get hung up about what the intention of the gameplay was, but in reality I think it's really a matter of balance - if 'fazing' makes the void ray a far better unit in practise then it should be fixed or the unit itself should be nerfed. The balance is more important than some arbitrary designer intention. And I think it's identical in nature to muta stacking/mineral glitching (unless you think blizz intended muta users to group in lots of 11?) | ||
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Vygur
Canada16 Posts
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
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Computard
United States30 Posts
On July 08 2010 16:18 Sylvr wrote: I did it vs an AI and Fazing does indeed work at full charge now... Hurray for AOE Voidrays! It works charged now?? Are you sure? Before it only worked while not charged. | ||
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
On July 08 2010 17:05 Computard wrote: It works charged now?? Are you sure? Before it only worked while not charged. Yeah, here's a replay of me testing it. (I had to use Megaupload cause sc2rc doesn't like new replays apparently.) [url blocked] | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
just faced someone going voidrays and my stalkers evaporated so fast. Pretty sure he was Fazing | ||
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Wayra
195 Posts
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
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