On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
On June 18 2010 08:30 farseer_dk wrote: He really only said one thing useful which is banelings step on the same role... i understand they're both like anti-marine, but the lurker was a defensive unit. the baneling is clearly not.
banelings can be defensive, just burrow them they walk on top and kaboom....
I feel that banelings have yet to be fully explored and will function in its own way. You guys fail to realize that this is just the beginning, Starcraft took time to develop and so will this. You need to realize that this is a NEW game, it's not meant to be the same as the regular.
On a side note, Lurkers were in the game, way way back in the first vids that came out to the public and they mustn't of worked or else they wouldn't have taken it out. Believe it or not, Blizzard puts a lot of work and dedication into this game, although they may be money-fiending....
All i'm saying is let it play out and try to be open-minded.
On June 18 2010 08:30 farseer_dk wrote: He really only said one thing useful which is banelings step on the same role... i understand they're both like anti-marine, but the lurker was a defensive unit. the baneling is clearly not.
banelings can be defensive, just burrow them they walk on top and kaboom....
Slow, gooey spider mines just aren't the same as lurkers.
I'm sure some cool units will be coming in the expansion though. Just remember the difference between vanilla SC and BW.
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
Motherships are pretty cool... They probably need to be re-thought a little bit, but they are a neat unit, for sure.
I completely disagree about your take on banelings and colossi. There is so much potential for these units... I really look forward to the future of SC2, when good players play the game and shut up all these obnoxious fortune-tellers. :D
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
Classic failing of the diehard BW-was-so-much-better camp is assuming that "most people" would agree with them... To quote Artosis, "Nobody even plays Brood War anymore."
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
Motherships are pretty cool... They probably need to be re-thought a little bit, but they are a neat unit, for sure.
I completely disagree about your take on banelings and colossi. There is so much potential for these units... I really look forward to the future of SC2, when good players play the game and shut up all these obnoxious fortune-tellers. :D
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
Classic failing of the diehard BW-was-so-much-better camp is assuming that "most people" would agree with them... To quote Artosis, "Nobody even plays Brood War anymore."
you know i could easily say "classic failing of the diehard SC2-is-great-cuz-its-new-and-everyone-was-playing-its-beta" but I wont because it just avoids all argument.
I mean the lurker does everything a baneling does, but MORE. It's one of the most unique and captivating units of all RTS games. it's being replaced by just a typical suicide unit found in many many games across all genres.
motherships were kinda cool before they made them how they are now lol. They're the worst-designed unit in the game. I guess it's just out of fashion to even question the almighty greatness of SC2 though. i mean, EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
Motherships are pretty cool... They probably need to be re-thought a little bit, but they are a neat unit, for sure.
I completely disagree about your take on banelings and colossi. There is so much potential for these units... I really look forward to the future of SC2, when good players play the game and shut up all these obnoxious fortune-tellers. :D
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
Classic failing of the diehard BW-was-so-much-better camp is assuming that "most people" would agree with them... To quote Artosis, "Nobody even plays Brood War anymore."
you know i could easily say "classic failing of the diehard SC2-is-great-cuz-its-new-and-everyone-was-playing-its-beta" but I wont because it just avoids all argument.
I mean the lurker does everything a baneling does, but MORE. It's one of the most unique and captivating units of all RTS games. it's being replaced by just a typical suicide unit found in many many games across all genres.
motherships were kinda cool before they made them how they are now lol. They're the worst-designed unit in the game. I guess it's just out of fashion to even question the almighty greatness of SC2 though. i mean, EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT
I didn't say you can't question it, I'm just saying that the lurker>baneling people get boring... It's a new game, and I don't want that many recycled units.
The lurker burrowed and shot in a line. It was definitely interesting, but in what way is the baneling simply inferior? The lurker can't be a mine, and it can't take out a mass of units just by running into them. It has to burrow and then be positioned so that it hits things in a straight line. You'll never hear of a lurker drop that even borders on the effect of a baneling drop -- a "lurker drop" would be like dropping any other unit.
The baneling is not a gimmicky novelty unit with a brand-new way of working; it's true. It's a refinement of a tried-and-tested core idea that is just fun to use. It can be used in carpet bombing, a minefield, or just in straight-up attacks -- as well as a number of other ways, I'm sure. It will go far.
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
Motherships are pretty cool... They probably need to be re-thought a little bit, but they are a neat unit, for sure.
I completely disagree about your take on banelings and colossi. There is so much potential for these units... I really look forward to the future of SC2, when good players play the game and shut up all these obnoxious fortune-tellers. :D
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
Classic failing of the diehard BW-was-so-much-better camp is assuming that "most people" would agree with them... To quote Artosis, "Nobody even plays Brood War anymore."
you know i could easily say "classic failing of the diehard SC2-is-great-cuz-its-new-and-everyone-was-playing-its-beta" but I wont because it just avoids all argument.
I mean the lurker does everything a baneling does, but MORE. It's one of the most unique and captivating units of all RTS games. it's being replaced by just a typical suicide unit found in many many games across all genres.
motherships were kinda cool before they made them how they are now lol. They're the worst-designed unit in the game. I guess it's just out of fashion to even question the almighty greatness of SC2 though. i mean, EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT
I didn't say you can't question it, I'm just saying that the lurker>baneling people get boring... It's a new game, and I don't want that many recycled units.
The lurker burrowed and shot in a line. It was definitely interesting, but in what way is the baneling simply inferior? The lurker can't be a mine, and it can't take out a mass of units just by running into them. It has to burrow and then be positioned so that it hits things in a straight line. You'll never hear of a lurker drop that even borders on the effect of a baneling drop -- a "lurker drop" would be like dropping any other unit.
The baneling is not a gimmicky novelty unit with a brand-new way of working; it's true. It's a refinement of a tried-and-tested core idea that is just fun to use. It can be used in carpet bombing, a minefield, or just in straight-up attacks -- as well as a number of other ways, I'm sure. It will go far.
never ever ever watched many BW games with zerg? i'm being trolled right? rofl
On July 06 2010 12:00 e4e5nf3 wrote: It seems to me Blizz was more concerned with how well a unit would look in game previews, adertisments and gametrailers. Units like the baneling, colossus, mothership, and thor have this "oooh! wow" factor that is perfect for game trailers.
Yeah, I guess it's nice that it worked out so they're really cool units, too.
motherships are NOT cool AT ALL man lol
banelings and colossi I feel gameplay-wise are downgrades from lurkers and reavers too. thor doesnt really overlap with anything too much from BW.
Motherships are pretty cool... They probably need to be re-thought a little bit, but they are a neat unit, for sure.
I completely disagree about your take on banelings and colossi. There is so much potential for these units... I really look forward to the future of SC2, when good players play the game and shut up all these obnoxious fortune-tellers. :D
honestly a lot of the replacement SC2 units sorta just feel like change for the sake of change. I mean takes lurkers to banelings. yea banelings are cool but if you can only have one, I think most would agree that lurkers are the more dynamic, exciting and unique unit (aka more fun and interesting). banelings are pretty cool but if I could ONLY have one (which blizzard says is the case) then I'd rather have the lurker. of course maybe in the new game banelings just fit into the balance more or something but I dont really think that's completely the case...
Classic failing of the diehard BW-was-so-much-better camp is assuming that "most people" would agree with them... To quote Artosis, "Nobody even plays Brood War anymore."
you know i could easily say "classic failing of the diehard SC2-is-great-cuz-its-new-and-everyone-was-playing-its-beta" but I wont because it just avoids all argument.
I mean the lurker does everything a baneling does, but MORE. It's one of the most unique and captivating units of all RTS games. it's being replaced by just a typical suicide unit found in many many games across all genres.
motherships were kinda cool before they made them how they are now lol. They're the worst-designed unit in the game. I guess it's just out of fashion to even question the almighty greatness of SC2 though. i mean, EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT
I didn't say you can't question it, I'm just saying that the lurker>baneling people get boring... It's a new game, and I don't want that many recycled units.
The lurker burrowed and shot in a line. It was definitely interesting, but in what way is the baneling simply inferior? The lurker can't be a mine, and it can't take out a mass of units just by running into them. It has to burrow and then be positioned so that it hits things in a straight line. You'll never hear of a lurker drop that even borders on the effect of a baneling drop -- a "lurker drop" would be like dropping any other unit.
The baneling is not a gimmicky novelty unit with a brand-new way of working; it's true. It's a refinement of a tried-and-tested core idea that is just fun to use. It can be used in carpet bombing, a minefield, or just in straight-up attacks -- as well as a number of other ways, I'm sure. It will go far.
never ever ever watched many BW games with zerg? i'm being trolled right? rofl
I watch tons of BW games. Link me lurker use that's comparable to the baneling being used as a mine or a dropped bomb.
Every single one will have the lurker burrowing behind a mineral line or protecting a choke or something.
I wouldn't mind if they came back and put lurkers in the expansion. Maybe 2 hydralisks could spawn into a lurker in the same fashion as templar into an archon. It could even be a different unit than the Lurker, but at least a unit that could attack while burrowed, not necessarily splash damage.
Would that be a caster type unit? Or is that its only form of attack? I was thinking more or less like a moving unit form of a Sunken colony like the defenses in BW. (at least for an attack) and that attacks while burrowed. Perhaps they could tinker with it and change its rate of attack based on something, like how far away the thing they are attacking. Perhaps the closer it is, the faster it attacks. Like it has 1 long range spine and 3 or so short ranged spines.
I can't think of a VOD ATM with a sick lurker drop, but I see them all the time (not as much lately because the maps aren't as great for them ATM, but outsider/medusa/destination and many others were great for them). I know I saw this game on outsider where the guy dropped a lurker behind the protoss' mineral only and so the protoss pulled all the probes to his nat, where the zerg had earlier dropped 2 other lurkers (on top of the cluff) and then burrowed them and got a shitload of kills.
lurkers do everything a baneling does and more. they are used for map control. you are able to hold tight chokes with only a few lurkers. they are able to be used in offensive lurker contains. they are greatly complimented by dark swarm to hold expansions. they are used well with zerglings by forcing the terran's infantry to run (so as to not get killed by the lurkers) so that the lings get free hits (also you can surround the infantry ball with lings and then burrow the lurkers and the infantry cant run anywhere). they can be used as harass units. they can be used as mines. strategically, lurkers offer many more options than banelings and thus IMO are far better units for a realtime strategy game.
Besides, if you think about it, the roach goes a long way to making the lurker sort of boring in SC2. The roach has move-burrow, which is really what forces detection in SC2 games. The lurker has such a similar core gimmick mechanic that I wonder whether it wouldn't wind up being underused.
On July 06 2010 13:15 kajeus wrote: Besides, if you think about it, the roach goes a long way to making the lurker sort of boring in SC2. The roach has move-burrow, which is really what forces detection in SC2 games. The lurker has such a similar core gimmick mechanic that I wonder whether it wouldn't wind up being underused.
i just want to make sure though, you really didn't know about hold-position lurkers?!
I can't think of a VOD ATM with a sick lurker drop, but I see them all the time. I know I saw this game on outsider where the guy dropped a lurker behind the protoss' mineral only and so the protoss pulled all the probes to his nat, where the zerg had earlier dropped 2 other lurkers (on top of the cluff) and then burrowed them and got a shitload of kills.
lurkers do everything a baneling does and more. they are used for map control. you are able to hold tight chokes with only a few lurkers. they are able to be used in offensive lurker contains. they are greatly complimented by dark swarm to hold expansions. they are used well with zerglings by forcing the terran's infantry to run (so as to not get killed by the lurkers) so that the lings get free hits (also you can surround the infantry ball with lings and then burrow the lurkers and the infantry cant run anywhere). they can be used as harass units. they can be used as mines. strategically, lurkers offer many more options than banelings and thus IMO are far better units for a realtime strategy game.
I guess this was a little unfair to you because it's inherently impossible for the lurker to be used as a mine. What you have here is standard lurker use, one defensive and the other sort of random harass. This is similar to using the baneling as a mine, but the difference is that the lurker must *attack*, and its attack needs to be dodged or run away from. It's like a cloaked siege tank. Not really a mine...
But let's just suppose that a lurker can function similarly to a mine, because this is kind of a boring point to stress. You yourself admit that the lurker has to land, burrow, and fire in order to do damage. Compare this to a baneling drop, which is more like a carpet-bombing -- instantaneous, cheap, and explosive in more ways than one.
Lurkers CANNOT be used as bombs. And we have only a hint of all the ways they will be used. You have 10 years of hardcore play behind the lurker, but what does the baneling have? A couple months of a beta and a group of hostile Brood War players...
The Lurker not being in SC2 is fine. Remember, there will be 2 expansions and the game will not be finalized until both are released. There will be plenty of Zerg units by then.
EPT
