I never played BW competativly, and I definatly did not play zerg much in BW.

But I play random in SC2 and I can say that the baneling is not the lurker. They do not fit the same roles.

Baneling synergizes with the zerg army SO much better. From my games as/against zerg in SC2 zerg are ALL about mobility. They have every conceivable tool that lets them outmanuver and pincer their opponents - indeed, if zerg forces can do this they will typically strike crushing defeats.

The lurker is a highly immobile unit. It has to burrow to attack, it has to unburrow to move. Sure, it works defensivly but so do spine crawlers (very, very well). On the attack, I perfer to use my mobility to my advantage instead of "laying a trap."

I perfer the baneling to the lurker 100%. The lurker COMPLETLY changes the matchup you're looking at. If you're opponent goes lurker, you HAVE to go robo as toss, or get that raven as terran. How fair is that?!? I can counter any other build with a number of tech paths and good strategy, but there is only ONE way to counter lurkers. They are arguably even worse than tanks in terms of you controlling what your opponent does.

Archerofaiur

United States4101 Posts

July 06 2010 14:20 GMT

#222

On July 06 2010 22:28 sikyon wrote:
If you're opponent goes lurker, you HAVE to go robo as toss, or get that raven as terran. How fair is that?!?

Spoken like someone who has never played a single game of Starcraft 2 with the Lurker.

Louder

United States2276 Posts

July 06 2010 14:50 GMT

#223

baneling is a much better choice for sc2 than a lurker :o points already covered pretty well by morrow, so i'm just echoing :D

terranghost

United States980 Posts

July 06 2010 15:48 GMT

#224

tbh I find it ammusing that I see zergs complain that their race isn't too much different than BW then say, O we need darkswarm and consume and lurkers and [insert bw unit or ability here]

On July 06 2010 23:50 Louder wrote:
baneling is a much better choice for sc2 than a lurker :o points already covered pretty well by morrow, so i'm just echoing :D

If I remember correctly when it was in the game it was a 2.5-3 tier unit more than enough time to get ample detection.

Cheerio

Ukraine3178 Posts

July 06 2010 16:01 GMT

#225

I guess lurkers would be too hard to balance with new clumping AI. It would be something like archon.

Archerofaiur

United States4101 Posts

July 06 2010 16:03 GMT

#226

On July 07 2010 00:48 terranghost wrote:
tbh I find it ammusing that I see zergs complain that their race isn't too much different than BW then say, O we need darkswarm and consume and lurkers and [insert bw unit or ability here]

Couldnt be because the zerg have less units overall hmmmm?

Ideas

United States8168 Posts

July 06 2010 20:30 GMT

#227

Show nested quote +

If I remember correctly when it was in the game it was a 2.5-3 tier unit more than enough time to get ample detection.

personally I've never complained that zerg is too similar to BW zerg. if anything it's too different in all the wrong ways.

terranghost

United States980 Posts

July 06 2010 20:36 GMT

#228

On July 07 2010 01:03 Archerofaiur wrote:

Show nested quote +

Couldnt be because the zerg have less units overall hmmmm?

I admit that I did not write that this wasn't a possibility however it is irrelevant for 2 reasons.

1.) Adding a unit or spell from BW is counter productive if the zerg are to get an additional unit it should not be from BW.

Returning units (some with slighly different functions)
Terran 7
marine, battlecruser , tank, ghost, scv, dropship(medic)
(counted medivac as 2 units since it is the the combination of 2 BW units)

Toss 7
zealot, carrier, archon, High, dark templar, observer, probe

zerg 7
zergling, hydra, muta, overlord, drone, ultra, broodling

2.) It's not even correct
Units overall

Terran 13
Banshee, battlecruser, ghost, hellion, Marauder, marine, medivac, raven, reaper, scv, tank, thor, and viking

Toss 15
Archon, carrier, collosus, Dark templar, high templar, immortal, mothership, observer, phoenix, probe, sentry, stalker, Void ray, warp prism, and zealot.

Zerg 13
Corruptor, Broodlord, drone, hydra, infestor, mutalisk, overlord, overseer, queen, roach, ultralisk, zergling, and baneling.

Before anyone reads my second point and starts flaming I will explain yes not all of these units can attack or are useful in all situations.
Whiner: Well the ultra is useless and why would I ever use it. 1. Don't tell that to TLO 2.Look at the archon, not to mention the dt if your opponent has detection.
Yes I included the overlord which is effectively the zerg's supply depo but it is also their dropship if you take that out the unit counts for all 3 races go down by one likewise for other units that are added as well.
Units not included
Infested terran, broodling, mule, changeling, and nydus worm
as broodlings have very limited lifespan and infested terrans are basically walking auto turrets with a shorter life.

Zerg players that complain about not having enough units are just plain wrong as the numbers don't lie

For comparison sake I will take out all units that don't have an attack or is a mining unit.
terran 10 subtracts the scv, raven, medivac.
toss 11 subtracts observer, probe, warp prism, and high templar
zerg 9 subtracts drone, infestor, overlord, overseer

O what is that the numbers are still pretty damn close.

On July 07 2010 05:30 Ideas wrote:
personally I've never complained that zerg is too similar to BW zerg. if anything it's too different in all the wrong ways.

You may not but enough people do.

Edit: added nydus worm to units left out of the unit count this has been corrected

MonkeyKungFu

Norway154 Posts

July 06 2010 20:38 GMT

#229

Really cool to see that people saying "all zerg players complain etc"

Since the other races has more units what do you think of removing colossi + DT for protoss and tanks + medivac for terran? Wouldnt be taken lightly i guess.

Arguing the lurker is stepping on the role of the baneling is just bull*#æ, do colossi step on the role of the h. templar and its psi storm?

"I guess lurkers would be too hard to balance with new clumping"
They managed to balance siege tanks with the new clumping by imrpoving its AI, lol?

Need moar options =)

terranghost

United States980 Posts

July 06 2010 20:45 GMT

#230

If you do not like the options you have as a race pick a different race. In BW I was zerg or terran depending on the map... Now I am terran or toss depending on the map but some of my most epic games are against zerg players who use all of the tricks they have up their sleve

On July 07 2010 00:48 terranghost wrote:
tbh I find it ammusing that I see zergs complain

Where in there to I say that all zerg players complain... nowhere. Also you must be able understand what things are implied.

All you zergs complain too much does not mean that all zerg players complain but in fact it means that the zerg players that do complain... complain too much.

edit:
Even if your post was not directed at me it is still relevant because many of the people that you could be refering too I'm sure did not intend to refer to every zerg player and even if they were ignore them for they are probally not worth listening too.