• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:39
CEST 14:39
KST 21:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed17Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Soulkey Muta Micro Map? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 676 users

A short history of Activision Blizzard or how... - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 49 Next All
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 20:35:53
May 30 2010 20:35 GMT
#421
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.
Too Busy to Troll!
Teddyman
Profile Joined October 2008
Finland362 Posts
May 30 2010 20:36 GMT
#422
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?

If I post only 3 sentences, you might as well read them all.
"Chess is a dead game" -Bobby Fischer 2004
Justice
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada10 Posts
May 30 2010 20:39 GMT
#423
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
May 30 2010 20:41 GMT
#424
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?

I think they're a mix of both. They have a bunch of studios owned by them and they also publish.
Hark!
Uriel_SVK
Profile Joined April 2010
Slovakia427 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 20:44:23
May 30 2010 20:44 GMT
#425
Last two weeks i was thinking about buying Modern Warfare 2 after my exams. It is 60 EUR but I liked Modern Warfare, and with Starcraft 2 Beta ending, I would have nothing to play for a few weeks. Afer reading this I pretty much changed my mind, Im not going to support such a group of greedy bastards. I can not even think about the money like a way to say "Thank you" to developers, because it is pretty much possible they will never see that money...

Starcraft 2 will be the last game, that I will buy, that has something in common with Activision.
Like if I had to buy a game to be able to play it...
God created things like Torrents and Rapidshare for situations like this...
D3xter
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 21:11:01
May 30 2010 20:45 GMT
#426
On May 30 2010 10:50 Captain Peabody wrote:
First, I'd like to commend you for taking the time to write your thoughts up in a clear and readable manner, do a reasonable amount of research, and not just flame Blizzard.

Thanks

While you make no explicit argument in your post, it's pretty obvious what thesis you are trying to support. If I had to put it into words, it would be that "Blizzard has been negatively affected by the merger with Activision. They are now greedy like Activision."
However, this thesis is totally and completely unsupported by the evidence you provide.

The first part seems about right, especially based on the pictures used that should be clearly implied, and yes it is biased based on my personal experiences and values. What I was trying to "prove" wasn't that they're completely "greedy" like Activision, but that they have well been influenced by it, even if their actual games are still good for the foreseeable future, they have that tainted feeling about it.

First of all, if you want to show that Blizzard is greedier now than they were, you have to provide some point of contrast; in other words, to show that there is a significant difference between the way Blizzard acted before the merger, and the way they act now, you have to provide a picture of what they were like before the merger that contrasts with the way they are now. Now, certainly you can reasonably assume (at least in this case) that most people know Blizzard's reputation, and are able to provide these contrasts themselves...but this does weaken what you're trying to say. And I think you'd find, if you actually looked at what Blizzard was like before the merger, you'd find more commonalities than you think.


I assumed people already know having played some of their previous titles...
Personally (although starting with WarCraft I) I bought (some even multiple times), played and really enjoyed a lot of their older more obscure games like "The Lost Vikings I+II" and "Blackthorne"... If anyone hasn't played those and wants to see some of the old Blizzard quality in action... get them, they're awesome and was almost a total fanboy by the point Diablo II and WarCraft 3 came out, unfortunately the company policy took a slow turn for the worse with the release of World of Warcraft, its success and said merger...

There's also enough articles to provide that contrast on the Web, a really great one: SERIOUSLY, DO READ THIS, can be found here called "How Blizzard became Blizzard": http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/how-blizzard-became-blizzard/

Some excerpts:
The turning point came with Starcraft.
You can’t say Warcraft and Warcraft 2 since Blizzard was considered an equal among various companies around that time. There are many companies that have a ‘hit game’. The pattern is that the company then descends into mediocrity either due to Industry men overmilking it to developers thinking they are artistic geniuses and ruining it. Success can be more fatal than failure in bringing down a company.
...
Yes, folks, the above images are Starcraft. Someone who might not have seen these images, especially a young person, is probably already spewing, “Lies, Malstrom! That is not Starcraft! That is just Warcraft in space!” And you are exactly right. That is just Warcraft in space.
And this is where part of the Turning Point for Blizzard came. The reaction from the public was ‘meh’ to Starcraft. If Blizzard was run by Industry men, they would have said, “We must meet our quarter deadline! Ship it!” If Blizzard was run rampant by out of control artists, they would have said, “These people just do not understand our genius. Ship it!” But Blizzard did not ship it. They went back and began doing a complete overhaul.
Those Alpha images are pretty interesting outside of how bad they are. The art, even back then, was pretty interesting and very colorful. The units are interesting to look at even if the Zerg look like ladybugs on steroids.
...
Now Mr. Reader, do you recognize your Starcraft now? “Yeah. But… not everything looks right. There are different units and different art. The engine is the same but there are many differences still.” Oh reader, you don’t know how right you are! When presented to the public again, people got excited about Starcraft. At this point, Industry men would say, “Ship it!” At this point, some artists would be so satisfied that they got a good response so they would ‘ship it’. But clearly from seeing the above images, the game was not shipped in that state.
...
Far from just a marketing move, Blizzard is taking the Starcraft test very seriously and literally working day and night to apply finishing touches to the product. Blizzard staffers can be found on Battle.net during most hours of the day (you’ll even spot employees dialing in from home during the wee hours), fielding questions, accepting bug reports, and even challenging other players. You’d think the makers of the game would be plenty good at it, and you’d be absolutely right – GameSpot experienced Blizzard’s Starcraft prowess firsthand in a fierce Protoss versus Terran battle (let’s just say the Terrans have seen better days).


This was the time when Blizzard cared and more importantly listened to people, when they put their heart into it and it wasn't about "balance sheets", "business models" or "platforms". It was just a company of gamers, making games for other gamers and putting their all into it. I believe that most of them still do (maybe sans the enthusiasm from back in the day and more "professional"), but they're ultimately controlled by people that don't.

Besides that, though, the timeline you provide simply does not support your argument. 3/4ths of the things on the timeline are solely related to Activision and Bobby Kotick, which is great if you're trying to prove that Bobby Kotick is a jerk, but not so good if you're trying to prove that Blizzard are now greedy, uncaring bastards.

Him talking about wanting to mess with Blizzard is better, but still proves nothing, since most of the things he talks about simply haven't happened; which actually works directly against your thesis. There is no in-game advertising; there is pretty much no monetizing of Bnet whatsoever, and the services that Blizzard talks about in another quote are hardly unreasonable.


Oh but I think it does, because it makes the breach clear compared to how Blizzard operated before (and never overcharged or thought about monetizing every damn feature) and exposes that their business practices as seen today (building up from World of Warcraft and the point of the merger) have a lot more in common with the business practices of said Kotick (no matter how it came to be, if Kotick is directly involved and dictates everything, if he taught the Blizzard marketing thing how to "do business the right way" with those balance sheets or if he plays golf and eats lunch with Morhaime and has talks about the future of his company, directly influencing it) , who ultimately is one of the few in charge of big marketing decisions than their own back when they became "famous" and "world renowned".

If I could *prove* that he or Activision is behind it, I would instead just do that instead, and not bother researching the web insinuating things. Unfortunately there's no open documentation detailing all this or what goes on inside said companies open to the public to do it.


Let's talk, then, about the three or four actual relevant pieces of information you bring up about Blizzard's actions after the merger, information you arrange in such a fashion as to suggest that Blizzard is acting in a greedy or uncaring fashion, with the implication that this is due to Bobby Kotick and Activision: (1)WoW paid stuff. (2): Starcraft 2 being a Trilogy. (3): No LAN (4): Map Marketplace (5): Blizzcon ticket prices being raised (?) (6): Facebook integration.

Let's go through these one by one, shall we?

(1): WoW.

Okay...I'm going to be very clear with this. Adding paid stuff to WoW makes Blizzard money. Blizzard is a corporation, whose main purpose is to make money. These paid things are features, meaning they add some value if used. Features are good, even if they make money for the company who does them; they are especially good if the community wants them. They are only bad when they make money in such a fashion as to directly hurt the gameplay or the community. This is simply not the case here.
Most of these features (such as paid character customization) came about largely at the behest of the community, are used widely by the community, and are generally enjoyed by them. In addition, none of them significantly affect gameplay. Remember: adding features is only a bad thing when it hurts the game or community in some way. Otherwise, it is a good thing. And if it's a feature that the community has asked for, it's a better thing.

Also, linking the use of paid features on WoW to Activision is highly questionable, considering the first of them actually was released a full year before the merger, in 2006.

However, one could, if one wished, link the recent "pet store" and "mount store" stuff to Activision, since it is more gameplay-related than the other features. However, they still do not affect gameplay, are totally cosmetic, and thus are VERY far away from the Kotick-style merchandising of games like Guitar Hero.

I guess this is one place where we fundamentally disagree...

While I do agree (and know) that companies are there to make money, they have a lot of different ways to do it, Blizzard made money before this didn't they? A lot of other companies are making money without slave labor or burning children for coal.
It is this difference that distinguishes a good company from a profitable company at the expense of the consumer (which is also more narrow-minded, because it provides short-term profit, but leaves a company vulnerable in the long term)...

And there are a lot of examples where inherently "good" companies can be profitable as hell too, like Google, with all their free services... from Google Books, Earth/Maps, the Android platform being Open Source, they have news.google.com, finance.google.com, they bought YouTube at a loss and still operate it free (albeit with commercials here and there), they released the VP8 Codec as an Open Standard to be used by everyone for HTML5, the Google Language Tools can translate whole texts understandably from the most obscure languages into your own, they offer great working environments while even paying attention to operating "green": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7292600.stm and more... They have and are basically changing the world, and all that mostly for free, while making most of their money with just Ads.

Sure there are some privacy concerns here too, but they aren't f...ing/exploiting their faithful/devoted customers by milking 30$ for a simple feature or 25$ for maybe 2 hours in a modeling program, saying they "requested" it... It is their right to do so, but(imo) morally it is a disgrace that Blizzard even considered doing that to people that already paid for their game, all add-ons and keep shelling out 13-15$ a month making them gazillions, and don't see why this is or should be defended.

Even going with your definition, their new plan for the "Remote Auction House" would actually hurt people IG, cause people could buy items others wanted using their iPhone or a Web Browser from wherever they are.

(2): Starcraft 2 as a Trilogy.

I'm going to be honest here. I am utterly sick and tired of people bringing this up as an example of Blizzard being greedy. It is so utterly wrong-headed and has been proven so so many times in so many ways I hardly know where to start. First of all, the other games are expansions, like BW, and will be priced like it. Secondly, the decision was made based on Blizzard's quality standards and in order not to delay the game too much. Thirdly, Blizzard had always, from the beginning of development, planned to have two expansions (probably originally to make up for what they knew would be an extra-long development cycle). Fourthly, Blizzard is jamming more content into each of these games then in the whole of SC1. I don't know how hard it is to get through people's skulls that Blizzard made the decision for the good of the game and the community.
If someone seriously wants to argue that this is an example of Blizzard being greedy, I would be happy to drench him in sources that prove otherwise. Until then, this should suffice.

1) The pricing hasn't yet been determined, that's what they keep repeating btw.: http://eu.starcraft2.com/faq.xml
Are these three separate games? How much will all of these games cost?

The StarCraft II Trilogy will consist of the base StarCraft II game and two expansion sets. Pricing on these games hasn't been determined at this early stage; however, we've always charged an appropriate price for the content the player receives, and we will continue to release high-quality games that offer great value.

You can't know for a fact how they will be "priced".

2) All people that want to play the game at a competitive level, getting all the units and buildings, enjoy the newest maps etc. will have to pay for all 3 parts, especially in conjunction with "no LAN", requirements of all the keys for each account, regional restriction and several other restrictions this doesn't exactly seem like a good thing from the consumer side of things:
How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay?

The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates.
If I buy StarCraft II but don't buy any of the expansion sets, will I still be able to play online?

Yes. This will work similarly to Warcraft III and the original StarCraft, which maintained separate online gaming lobbies and ladders for expansion set players and players with the base Warcraft III or StarCraft.


3) Each of the new "Expansions having as much content as StarCraft 1" arguments are a non-issue, considering both Brood War and The Frozen Throne, while being considered Add-Ons and being sold at a price point of 30$ and below also had 26/27 missions respectively WHILE having 3 different campaigns and different units/levels etc. for each.
I don’t see where they come off praising themselves on this or using it as an excuse to charge more, seeing as it remained the same.

On a personal note I see it like this:
WarCraft (1994): 2 Playable Races/Campaigns (Orcs & Humans)
WarCraft 2 (1995): 2 Playable Races/Campaigns (Orcs & Humans)
StarCraft (1998): 3 Playable Races/Campaigns (Humans, Zerg & Protoss)
WarCraft 3 (2002): 4 Playable Races/Campaigns (Orcs, Humans, Nightelves & Undead)
StarCraft 2 – Wings of Liberty (2010): 1 Playable Race (Humans) with a small Protoss "Mini"-Campaign

Having 3+ different campaigns to play through, that all started anew at some point and offered a completely new perspective and way of playing on things while not overstaying their welcome in the Single Player part of those games was one of the charms and quality features of previous Blizzard games for me. It still remains to be proven that 28+ missions with the same race and largely same units/base-building doesn't get boring in SP after a while.

(4): Map Marketplace.

The Map Marketplace is a great idea, frankly, and really, really good for the community. It provides one place where you can go to get custom maps, a big showroom for all the talented map-makers out there, and the fact that some (read: very, very few. Blizzard has said that only people who basically create their own game using the engine would get money) of the most talented map-makers out there will get money for doing the equivalent of making their own game using Blizzard's tools is great, and will provide the impetus for many great projects.

The fact that Blizzard is taking a percentage of the money involved is far from excessive, Kotick-style greed; all store sites take some amount of money from sellers in exchange for the notoriety and out-there-ness they're getting. And the fact that the map-makers will be using Blizzard's tools and Blizzard's engines only increases the fairness of the arrangement. And since we don't know how much Blizzard is going to take anyway (and I doubt it's even been decided yet) it's pretty much a moot point.

And the idea that Blizzard thought up this idea as a huge money-maker is somewhat absurd. Setting up and maintaining the system will cost a lot of time and money, and with the rules for "premium maps" that they've given us, I doubt they'll be making a lot of profit off of it. It's not anything near to selling cheap plastic guitars and drum sets.

So, again: adding a feature is not bad. Adding a feature with the intent of making money from that feature is also not bad, so long as it does not deleteriously affect the game or the community. In fact, it is good. The Map Marketplace is a great community tool, thought of with the good of the community in mind, that will also make Blizzard some amount of money. It does not support your thesis.

Just see this thread for this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127066

In short: It is not only a thing of money but also a thing of gaining control and future control over certain things, I think the community would have been a lot better off if they didn't intervene at all into this one and just left it like it was in WarCraft 3 for the most part.

Also I've already said stuff to the following points somewhere in this thread already and most of your disagreements still originate from your belief that every "feature", no matter how minor, bad, greedy, annoying etc. it is or the circumstances it came to be (like leaving something out of a game on purpose in the first place, to sell it later on or leaving something else out that was there before, people got used to and everyone wants back), no matter if a previous product had them already included or not and they should be considered standard is a "good" thing.

If they feel the need to include something like FaceBook, they can at least put a feature in to ignore/make said feature disappear, because for some people having "FaceBook" written all over their game is like waving a red blanket in front of a bull.

In conclusion, then, your evidence simply does not support your thesis. It does not support the "greedy bastard" conclusion, and does not show a significant link of this to Activision. You have selectively stuck various bits of "evidence" (most of which does not support your thesis) together in such a way as to form a narrative that supports what you had already concluded before you began looking for evidence. It is not convincing.

You also leave out a great deal of evidence that does not support your thesis: namely, the vast majority of Blizzard's actions over the past few years, the entire development cycle of SC2, etc.

For all these reasons, I am not convinced by your thesis in the least.

You have, however, convinced me that Bobby Kotick is evil. Congrats.

For some people it does, even if they take some of this stuff much too seriously xD
I didn't include the whole history of Blizzard or the "entire development cycle of SC2" because I: a) didn't try to make a point about that, b) didn't want to write and research for weeks and make this article even bigger with stuff that do nothing to further my argumentation and c) simply didn't know about, feel free to elaborate yourself
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
May 30 2010 20:45 GMT
#427
On May 31 2010 05:29 LastToNight wrote:
My god... Speechless... I would like to THANK the former of this thread for the great work, i wish someone would do it earlier. Thats just means how blind we are and stuck in our virtual world. Kotick is doing an excelent job as CEO, i can just congratulate him on whats done. He brought a huge profit to the company he is running, meanless through what stepps. But im also happy that now i know what is really going on and will react accordinly.

Did anyone seriously doubt that everything was about money at any point?
Justice
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada10 Posts
May 30 2010 20:47 GMT
#428
On May 31 2010 05:41 Deadlyhazard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?

I think they're a mix of both. They have a bunch of studios owned by them and they also publish.


Okay, that's mostly how I pictured them. So generally speaking they make decisions from an executive/monetary perspective, and not from a quality perspective, right? This is essentially the direction I see Blizzard taking. Whether or not this is a result of pressure from the new company setup, I suppose I can't be sure, but I can't help but think that the merger did bad things for the products of Blizzard and their consumers.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 20:51:42
May 30 2010 20:49 GMT
#429
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?


No, as a publisher which manages its own studios.

Let me illustrate.

[image loading]

The management models of Activision in relation to its own studios (IW-ward...etc) will not effect blizzard what so ever. But they both answer to the same board of directors, among them, Bob Kotick.
Too Busy to Troll!
Motiva
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1774 Posts
May 30 2010 20:50 GMT
#430
I think everyone has always known, it's obviously all about money at all times. You can only squeeze so much though..... and that whole catch more flies with honey thing. Seriously.
Justice
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada10 Posts
May 30 2010 20:51 GMT
#431
On May 31 2010 05:44 Uriel_SVK wrote:
Last two weeks i was thinking about buying Modern Warfare 2 after my exams. It is 60 EUR but I liked Modern Warfare, and with Starcraft 2 Beta ending, I would have nothing to play for a few weeks. Afer reading this I pretty much changed my mind, Im not going to support such a group of greedy bastards. I can not even think about the money like a way to say "Thank you" to developers, because it is pretty much possible they will never see that money...

Starcraft 2 will be the last game, that I will buy, that has something in common with Activision.
Like if I had to buy a game to be able to play it...
God created things like Torrents and Rapidshare for situations like this...


I bought MW2 at launch... I wouldn't say I regret it but I'm not proud of it. I got hours and hours of enjoyment out of it, but I supported a business model that I and fundamentally opposed to. Paid DLC fractures the community and essentially forces gamers to pay if they want to remain part of the dominant sect.

I haven't played since the first DLC pack came out. I am very hesitant to buy SC2 at all because I'm afraid that it will take the same direction.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5546 Posts
May 30 2010 20:55 GMT
#432
On May 31 2010 05:49 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?


No, as a publisher which manages its own studios.

Let me illustrate.

[image loading]

The management models of Activision in relation to its own studios (IW-ward...etc) will not effect blizzard what so ever. But they both answer to the same board of directors, among them, Bob Kotick.


Former Vivendi Games studios (save for Blizzard) are missing from your picture.

Vivendi Games + Activision = Activision Blizzard.

I'm not sure how stuff there works exactly, but I think simply all former Activision and Vivendi Games' studios are now under Activision Blizzard, while Blizzard itself has earned their independence thanks to WoW.
Satallgeese
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States239 Posts
May 30 2010 21:04 GMT
#433
Yuck. Just yuck.
A good player practices until he gets it right. A great player practices until he can't get it wrong.
Gentlebite
Profile Joined May 2010
United States132 Posts
May 30 2010 21:11 GMT
#434
Forget this, I guess I'm going to pirate Sc2
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
May 30 2010 21:12 GMT
#435
On May 31 2010 05:49 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?


No, as a publisher which manages its own studios.

Let me illustrate.

[image loading]

The management models of Activision in relation to its own studios (IW-ward...etc) will not effect blizzard what so ever. But they both answer to the same board of directors, among them, Bob Kotick.



Is that some kind of alien?
There's no S in KT. :P
lotri
Profile Joined April 2010
United States81 Posts
May 30 2010 21:15 GMT
#436
So why exactly did Blizzard and Activision merge? It seems like Activision is bringing a new host of problems into their partnership with Blizzard.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 21:20:17
May 30 2010 21:16 GMT
#437
On May 31 2010 05:55 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:49 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?


No, as a publisher which manages its own studios.

Let me illustrate.

[image loading]

The management models of Activision in relation to its own studios (IW-ward...etc) will not effect blizzard what so ever. But they both answer to the same board of directors, among them, Bob Kotick.


Former Vivendi Games studios (save for Blizzard) are missing from your picture.

Vivendi Games + Activision = Activision Blizzard.

I'm not sure how stuff there works exactly, but I think simply all former Activision and Vivendi Games' studios are now under Activision Blizzard, while Blizzard itself has earned their independence thanks to WoW.


Oh yes, my bad. You're right, thats how it works.

Here is new and improved.

[image loading]

On May 31 2010 06:12 Baarn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2010 05:49 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:39 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:35 Half wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:33 Justice wrote:
On May 31 2010 05:29 Teddyman wrote:
Activision doesn't have anything to do with SC2. Activision Blizzard does, as they own Blizzard. Blizzard publishes their own games.


You don't think that the merger with Activision has has any bearing on the development choices for SC2 and BNet2.0 whatsoever?


Yes, of course there was influence. That doesn't mean Activision, an entirely separate studio is providing input onto b-net 2.0. Perhaps the shareholders of Activision Blizzard are, but Activision as a studio is not.


I was under the impression that Activision is first and foremost a publisher and not a studio. Am I incorrect?


No, as a publisher which manages its own studios.

Let me illustrate.

[image loading]

The management models of Activision in relation to its own studios (IW-ward...etc) will not effect blizzard what so ever. But they both answer to the same board of directors, among them, Bob Kotick.



Is that some kind of alien?


Kind of like this one

[image loading]
Too Busy to Troll!
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 21:21:04
May 30 2010 21:17 GMT
#438
You can see the striking similarities.

[image loading]
Too Busy to Troll!
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
May 30 2010 21:20 GMT
#439
On May 31 2010 06:15 lotri wrote:
So why exactly did Blizzard and Activision merge? It seems like Activision is bringing a new host of problems into their partnership with Blizzard.


Activision Blizzard, Inc., formerly Activision, Inc. (NASDAQ: ATVI) is the American holding company for Activision and Blizzard Entertainment, majority owned by French conglomerate Vivendi SA. The company is the result of a merger between Activision and Vivendi Games, announced on December 2, 2007 in a deal worth USD$18.8 billion. The deal closed July 9, 2008. The company believed that the merging of the two companies would create "the world’s largest and most profitable pure-play video game publisher". It believes that it is the only publisher that has "leading market positions across all categories" of the video game industry.
There's no S in KT. :P
teapot
Profile Joined October 2007
United Kingdom266 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 21:22:01
May 30 2010 21:21 GMT
#440
If everything is about money, then how do you distinguish good companies from bad companies?

Anyway I disagree everything is all about money , and I certainly think that it always hasn't always been, all about the money, at Blizzard. That is why they were so beloved among gamers. Now they are just another EA. At least EA has tried to make amends. I hope Blizzard can do the same.
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 49 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Epic.LAN
12:00
Epic.LAN 45 Playoffs Stage
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #136
CranKy Ducklings112
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 587
StarCraft: Brood War
Barracks 3644
actioN 1887
Larva 1334
Hyuk 1134
Mini 1040
Stork 450
firebathero 420
Soma 392
TY 254
Last 237
[ Show more ]
Pusan 235
Dewaltoss 166
Hyun 119
ToSsGirL 96
JulyZerg 83
Light 75
Backho 64
Bonyth 56
GoRush 20
SilentControl 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7090
singsing2448
qojqva1217
Fuzer 175
canceldota83
Counter-Strike
sgares133
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor207
Other Games
B2W.Neo1773
DeMusliM447
Lowko180
Trikslyr26
ArmadaUGS8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2763
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH271
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1603
• Jankos1229
Upcoming Events
CSO Contender
4h 21m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 21m
Online Event
1d 3h
Esports World Cup
2 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.