EPTThis may kill any good UMS's, who wants to play pubs all day? I can ladder alone, great, not ideal, but I could live with that. But if I want to play a good UMS with good players, there's NO way to do this without chat!!
Blizzard: "No plans for chatrooms, crossrealm play" - Page…
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
This may kill any good UMS's, who wants to play pubs all day? I can ladder alone, great, not ideal, but I could live with that. But if I want to play a good UMS with good players, there's NO way to do this without chat!! | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:12 Archerofaiur wrote: "oh you can meet people in games" lol Your not really getting the point of all this are you? Its kind of like Frank saying "oh you can just buy more games to play your friend who lives in europe" :p people are only ever in the same channel if they have something in common, or if they randomly meet. if the AMM system randomly puts people together, that fits the second criteria. if group chat channels puts people together that have something in common, that fits the first criteria. there's really nothing you can say that can dispute the fact that a regular chat channel is obsolete. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:50 dcttr66 wrote: people are only ever in the same channel if they have something in common, or if they randomly meet. if the AMM system randomly puts people together, that fits the second criteria. if group chat channels puts people together that have something in common, that fits the first criteria. there's really nothing you can say that can dispute the fact that a regular chat channel is obsolete. And if i want to play people from another country I can buy another copy of the game. Problem solved. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:50 dcttr66 wrote: people are only ever in the same channel if they have something in common, or if they randomly meet. if the AMM system randomly puts people together, that fits the second criteria. if group chat channels puts people together that have something in common, that fits the first criteria. there's really nothing you can say that can dispute the fact that a regular chat channel is obsolete. What the hell will group chat channels discuss? None of this has been addressed at all. For all we know it could be terran strategy or something, thats not a place like Clan X17, Wizz, ~nohunters, op TOT), TL-West, ETC. Its just not the same. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:50 dcttr66 wrote: there's really nothing you can say that can dispute the fact that a regular chat channel is obsolete. A good contender for dumbest statement these past few days. Nothing, at all, beats the freedom of choosing to create your own channel, named however you want, on whatever subject you want. It's not obsolete for the simple reason that it gives you the most freedom to organize however the hell you want to. And it will not happen most likely because Blizzard doesn't want you running tournaments without paying them some form of tax. Woohoo Crapple.net 2.0 | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:41 Archerofaiur wrote: Your quoting facebooks numbers and farmville and such yes. But all those people will not play SC2. If you want accurate numbers you can start by quoting user bases on any RTS. And you calling the BNET forums a hardcore site is laughable. i didn't say that the bnet forums is hardcore, i said that developers consider anyone who goes to a games forum a hardcore player. hardcore players' definition of 'hardcore' is developed through comparison between themselves and other players. Developers' definition is founded on long-term data analysis and identification of general use trends. Anyone who has a level 80 character in World of Warcraft is considered a hardcore player (by developers). This is why their end-game content went through a huge shift between the original wow and it's expansions: only 1% of their userbase ever got to experience their end-game content (Molten Core). I don't know what to tell you. The vast majority of people who buy RTS games play only the single player, and many of those don't even finish it. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:25 Sadist wrote: I disagree completely. Chat is the most important thing in the game if you want it to last IMO, especially in the RTS community and BW where you already have had these chat systems. Without having chat youll almost never meet people or make friends. It just wont happen. BW was much more fun when my "friends" on bnet were playing everyday and wed all be playing each other (you included). Ive basically been playing ladder only for the past 2-3 years and its not nearly as fun. Sure its competitive, but Im not motivated to play nearly as much as when Id be able to log on and watch replays with Midian or play with HovZ, Saddles, Eerik, or any number of people. An RTS will surely die at a much faster rate without chat channels. FPS games have always functioned on IRC basically so its never been an issue, its also pretty difficult from my experiences to get into those games because I dont know where to go to meet people. By the nature of RPG's /MMO's you meet people anyway and they are more likely to be played with friends IRL than competitive RTS games so youll always have a base with people you know. I guess to some it up, just dont underestimate chat channels in something like this. Facebook is only good for people you already know or have met/IRL or did know at one point. Meeting new people this way will never last. Sadist, those days where we all played together are part of what comprise the fondest memories of my life. I hope to bring that experience to other players in the future. I don't believe that that is a lucrative venture though. From Blizzard's actions, it would seem they are in agreement with me. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:59 Mora wrote: I don't know what to tell you. The vast majority of people who buy RTS games play only the single player, and many of those don't even finish it. So they intend to sell those 2 expansions to who exactly? | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 01 2010 12:59 Lollersauce wrote: A good contender for dumbest statement these past few days. That dumbest statement is accepted as pretty much fact in the game industry. Nothing, at all, beats the freedom of choosing to create your own channel, named however you want, on whatever subject you want. It's not obsolete for the simple reason that it gives you the most freedom to organize however the hell you want to. And it will not happen most likely because Blizzard doesn't want you running tournaments without paying them some form of tax. Woohoo Crapple.net 2.0 No. They are obselete because no one has a good reason to meet random people that you have no relation or reference to. Why meet people that you have nothing in common with when you could be restricted to meeting people that you do have something in common with? Developers believe that they are better at doing this for you than you are for yourself. They are right for a large majority of their audience, which is what their system is designed around. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
Sadist, group chat channels discuss things, really, like Clan X17, Wizz, WHATEVER YOU WANT. you have the power to make your own groups. that's basically the exact same thing as clans. Ergh. EVERYONE, go get a facebook account and play farmville and mafia wars. add all your life-long friends that are already using facebook, yeah remember their real names and search them. play games and experiment with the settings. SC2 is going to be like THAT. that's what they're telling us. don't just say, screw the beach, blizzard! i don't want to go to the beach! i want to stay right here in the forest, i like the forest! why should i go to the beach? we want to stay in the forest! let us stay in the forest! and blizzard's like, dude, guys, it's going to be ok, you're going to love it at the beach...and you're like, screw that, i've never been to the beach, i'm having a lot of fun in the forest, don't make me go to the beach! you can't make me! i'll do my best to ruin your reputation blizz! i'm going kicking and screaming if you think you're going to force me to that beach. i mean really, people, it's a change of venue. it's like getting pissed off at your parents for taking you to dominoes and you really want to go to chuck e. cheese's. as for the cross realm stuff...i already said i hope they have limited cross realm interaction. i do think that cross realm for public games is bad. but i think cross realm for friends and for special cross realm tournaments (or whatever) is something that they should have. which seems to be in line with what you think, and i THINK blizzard is going to do something like this...but i don't know. why don't you recommend this to them? i think it's good idea. edit: see in facebook they have obscure group names like, "Ima kill this bug... HOLY SHIT IT FLIES!!", "When i was young ...... oh wait I still do that", "Fuck it's a cop, everyone look as sober as you can." In war3 and sc, your clan names could have some really weird names...same thing, basically here. you can go there and have something in common with those people. edit2: and the same thing goes for obscure channel names, too. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
I'm sure now they can't. On top of that- they are probably getting more instructions like "oh just network this whole thing to Facebook and have the achievements all display and all the emails link up, no problem"... without the bosses even realizing what a structural readjustment that takes. It was obviously very solid when it came out, with the identifiers- now I'm sure management is coming down on them with a ton of requests for integrating this or that and not giving them any more time. I'm sure they will want to make Coca-Cola symbols be "decals" for Zerg soon. This is the kind of stuff corporate management does- orders with some catchphrase like "make it happen." Be prepared for very similar outcomes and frequent patches when the release comes out. And each expansion. It's going to be a patchfest I can guarantee. edit: And I love this guy's "I don't give a fuck" attitude... + Show Spoiler + The other thing said at the same event was that Diablo 3 will probably be released before the first expansion. Any comments? Anything's possible. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:03 Lollersauce wrote: So they intend to sell those 2 expansions to who exactly? To all those people who like to play single player, despite them not finishing it? I realize this may sound like nonsense, but the stats show this to be the case. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:07 dcttr66 wrote: i'm not even talking about cross realm play at this moment. Sadist, group chat channels discuss things, really, like Clan X17, Wizz, WHATEVER YOU WANT. you have the power to make your own groups. that's basically the exact same thing as clans. Ergh. EVERYONE, go get a facebook account and play farmville and mafia wars. add all your life-long friends that are already using facebook, yeah remember their real names and search them. play games and experiment with the settings. SC2 is going to be like THAT. that's what they're telling us. don't just say, screw the beach, blizzard! i don't want to go to the beach! i want to stay right here in the forest, i like the forest! why should i go to the beach? we want to stay in the forest! let us stay in the forest! and blizzard's like, dude, guys, it's going to be ok, you're going to love it at the beach...and you're like, screw that, i've never been to the beach, i'm having a lot of fun in the forest, don't make me go to the beach! you can't make me! i'll do my best to ruin your reputation blizz! i'm going kicking and screaming if you think you're going to force me to that beach. i mean really, people, it's a change of venue. it's like getting pissed off at your parents for taking you to dominoes and you really want to go to chuck e. cheese's. as for the cross realm stuff...i already said i hope they have limited cross realm interaction. i do think that cross realm for public games is bad. but i think cross realm for friends and for special cross realm tournaments (or whatever) is something that they should have. which seems to be in line with what you think, and i THINK blizzard is going to do something like this...but i don't know. why don't you recommend this to them? i think it's good idea. thats a really shitty metaphor. Blizzard doesnt know better than I do. I am a human being who can think for myself and learn from my mistakes. Forcing people to do things is stupid because it paints people into corners and causes resentment. Have a list of channels you can join that have specific topics and are moderatated by blizzard. Also allow people to have their own god damn channels if they want. Way more people will be in those than the blizzard channels. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:07 Mora wrote: That dumbest statement is accepted as pretty much fact in the game industry. No. They are obselete because no one has a good reason to meet random people that you have no relation or reference to. Why meet people that you have nothing in common with when you could be restricted to meeting people that you do have something in common with? Developers believe that they are better at doing this for you than you are for yourself. They are right for a large majority of their audience, which is what their system is designed around. So, who you know is who you know and you'll never meet anybody new ever again.... ever. Awesome. Edit: As an example. On Xbox Live I made a lot of friends playing games that had host lobbies waiting to launch the game. Compared to Halo 2/3 I maybe added 10 people total from those 2 games combined from people I met playing. Lobbies/Chat are how you find new people through various ways. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote: So, who you know is who you know and you'll never meet anybody new ever again.... ever. Awesome. No. Who you know is who you've played. You'll never meet someone outside of that. This is not that different than Starcraft. The difference being that you have an initial filter of who you play with based off of your having chatted with them. How many people on your Starcraft friends list are people you've never played a game with? In Starcraft 2 they've just reversed the order. edit - i am not trying to trivialize the power of chat channels. My game has chat channels for the reasons you've listed (and more). I'm just explaining the rationale behind why developers think they are superfluous. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
Go forth WoW players! Form clans and guilds using a mix of your real life friends and people you meet in instances and defeat the Litch King! | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:14 Mora wrote: No. Who you know is who you've played. You'll never meet someone outside of that. This is not that different than Starcraft. The difference being that you have an initial filter of who you play with based off of your having chatted with them. How many people on your Starcraft friends list are people you've never played a game with? In Starcraft 2 they've just reversed the order. I think you grossly underestimate how important talking to people and meeting people is. Of all of the people on my friends list for the beta only 2 of them are people who I met on SC2. Bnet is making people into online hermits. I understand wholeheartedly why the developers are doing it. But they're screwing the pooch on this (and many other things). It's so easy to dismiss it as a developer and designer by thinking "who needs these things", but that's how communities and groups for a game are formed. If all of it is done through 3rd party sites or luck it segments the community even further than it all ready is by default. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:11 Sadist wrote: thats a really shitty metaphor. Blizzard doesnt know better than I do. I am a human being who can think for myself and learn from my mistakes. Forcing people to do things is stupid because it paints people into corners and causes resentment. Have a list of channels you can join that have specific topics and are moderatated by blizzard. Also allow people to have their own god damn channels if they want. Way more people will be in those than the blizzard channels. please look at ALL of my post. i'm telling you to get on over to facebook and see how blizzard is saying b.net 2.0 will be run. facebook has no channels. and yet, it's extremely successful. if you can't do that, we have nothing more to discuss. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:19 dcttr66 wrote: please look at ALL of my post. i'm telling you to get on over to facebook and see how blizzard is saying b.net 2.0 will be run. facebook has no channels. and yet, it's extremely successful. if you can't do that, we have nothing more to discuss. Facebook is just trendy something else will come along and replace it (look at myspace now!). You dont meet people on facebook, you have people you already know on there or have met IRL. There are groups on facebook but not nearly as many people use them as people who casually(or obsessively) use facebook to be in contact with real life friends. This wont work for video games and is a fucking stupid idea. Setting bnet 2.0 up like a dating site is a better idea than having fucking facebook integration. At least it would encourage people to meet other people. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On June 01 2010 13:26 Sadist wrote: Facebook is just trendy something else will come along and replace it (look at myspace now!). You dont meet people on facebook, you have people you already know on there or have met IRL. There are groups on facebook but not nearly as many people use them as people who casually(or obsessively) use facebook to be in contact with real life friends. This wont work for video games and is a fucking stupid idea. Setting bnet 2.0 up like a dating site is a better idea than having fucking facebook integration. At least it would encourage people to meet other people. of course something is coming along to replace facebook, it's called battle.net 2.0. get with the program! and yes, i do meet people on facebook. it works rather easily, believe it or not. | ||
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