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On May 28 2010 03:58 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:51 domane wrote:
So:
(1) OGN and MBC negotiate with GOM TV over broadcast rights.
(2) Once SC2 is out on the market, Blizzard/GOM TV pressure OGN/MBC to begin broadcast of SC2.
(3) KeSPA and SC1 teams lose air time.
(4) Corporations stop sponsoring SC1 teams and KeSPA falls apart.
(5) Former SC1 pros either retire or form SC2 teams.
(6) New and old corporations begin sponsoring some of these SC2 teams.
*Personally, I expect will KeSPA delay these events from happening, to the fullest of its ability. Natural reaction, since KeSPA wants to keep itself alive. KeSPA IS the sponsors. Locking out KeSPA is throwing away everything made so far. If it did happen you're relying completely on number 6 even happening again, under Blizzards financial terms and on a completely new unproven for broadcast game. I can't see it even happening again. Not to mention its fucking over the coaches, players and everyone in the scene in the meantime. What it will come down to is something the level of Blizzcon with no actual teams and basically all around nothing compared to what it could be if they just LEFT IT ALONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. That's why I emphasized "some". I predict that only a handful of former SC1 sponsors would be willing to continue their support.
Do I want this to happen? No. Personally, I would like to see BW survive as long as viewer ratings keep it afloat, instead of Blizzard legally pushing it aside to promote its sequel.
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On May 28 2010 03:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get all the happiness in this thread at all.
When i read this at work my jaw dropped down to the floor.
So "pay for our services"-GOM-fucking-TV is going to be IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING Starcraft 1 and 2 related? Are you KIDDING ME!? I can't just fucking believe this shit! I'm so fucking full of anger right now.
If this is going to hurt/break/shut down/ anything that i followed for nearly a decade i'm fucking done with you Blizzard. F.U.C.K.I.N.G. D.O.N.E.!
!!!!!!!!!!!¨"*ç%&/(
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This could turn out ok, this could also turn out to be very, VERY bad.
If the sponsors bail we'll most likely be left with the equivilent of the lackluster foreigner scene (now including the remaining koreans since practicing 12hrs a day is a bit more difficult when you have a second job).
There's very little chance of actually becoming anything more than semi-pro from actual tourney winnings and very few professional gamers outside of Korea (and possibly some halo stuff in the MLG, no idea there) are getting any kind of real salary, there's a reason the Koreans are way better than anyone at sc, it's their job, not a hobby with benefits such as free bnc's or mousepads.
Just take a look at western esports, it's like 2-4 guys or 1-2 teams, maybe, at the top of every scene that can sustain themselves of off winnings and sponsorship, you'll never get the skill level of the bw scene that way.
The good bit is that we'll possibly get some english commentary on high level bw (and sc2 possibly in the future), we could also on the other hand end up with the equivilent of what we have today for sc2 since there won't really be any higher stuff left (no gain at all really for sc2, big loss for bw)
It should be pretty damn obvious to anyone that losing sponsors is a big deal, it's not like people are fighting to shove millions into tournaments in hopes of getting their names on some billboards, if they were esports would already be a pretty big deal everywhere, and way bigger than it is in Korea.
sponsoring one "big" foreigner tourney = 20-50k w/e, sponsoring a team = that x the number of members for salary + housing, food and such
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On May 28 2010 04:08 Uthgar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2010 03:46 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:42 olof wrote:On May 28 2010 03:39 QueueQueue wrote:I find it amusing when people criticize activation / blizzard for being greedy. Of COURSE they are. That's what companies do. They seek means to profit. They are not developing games so that we as gamers can be happy. Everything a company does, whether it's blatantly obvious or not, is to make more money. Even companies that donate to charity do so to boost public image for the sake of more profits. To think otherwise is just being naive. Because they know the esporscene can't survive with the conditions that they gave kespa. Becayse they're doing it to kill SC and try to make people buy SC2. Because the greed is killing the Starcraftscene. I hear it already happened with WoW with MLG because of Blizzard demands so why people think this attempt will be any better i don't know. Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:47 StarStruck wrote:
That is why I said it's indirect and there is no way of knowing. The costs they have for running the scene is absolutely ridiculous: housing, food, uniforms, training facilities, stadiums, commercial costs, etc. This doesn't even scratch the surface. Wow some people. If anything they're making nickels and quarters off of this and not much more. Can you imagine a western company ever owning a pro videogame team? It'll never happen. Its so sad it took so long to get where it is today with sponsors to now possibly be thrown away. What happened with MLG and the WOW scene? i am curious to know.
I seem to remember Blizzard forcing exuberant license fees on an industry in its infancy which led to it having to close.
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On May 28 2010 04:11 bmml wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:08 Uthgar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2010 03:46 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:42 olof wrote:On May 28 2010 03:39 QueueQueue wrote:I find it amusing when people criticize activation / blizzard for being greedy. Of COURSE they are. That's what companies do. They seek means to profit. They are not developing games so that we as gamers can be happy. Everything a company does, whether it's blatantly obvious or not, is to make more money. Even companies that donate to charity do so to boost public image for the sake of more profits. To think otherwise is just being naive. Because they know the esporscene can't survive with the conditions that they gave kespa. Becayse they're doing it to kill SC and try to make people buy SC2. Because the greed is killing the Starcraftscene. I hear it already happened with WoW with MLG because of Blizzard demands so why people think this attempt will be any better i don't know. Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:47 StarStruck wrote:
That is why I said it's indirect and there is no way of knowing. The costs they have for running the scene is absolutely ridiculous: housing, food, uniforms, training facilities, stadiums, commercial costs, etc. This doesn't even scratch the surface. Wow some people. If anything they're making nickels and quarters off of this and not much more. Can you imagine a western company ever owning a pro videogame team? It'll never happen. Its so sad it took so long to get where it is today with sponsors to now possibly be thrown away. What happened with MLG and the WOW scene? i am curious to know. I seem to remember Blizzard forcing exuberant license fees on an industry in its infancy which led to it having to close.
What are you talking about? They are still playing WoW in MLG.
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On May 28 2010 04:11 bmml wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:08 Uthgar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2010 03:46 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:42 olof wrote:On May 28 2010 03:39 QueueQueue wrote:I find it amusing when people criticize activation / blizzard for being greedy. Of COURSE they are. That's what companies do. They seek means to profit. They are not developing games so that we as gamers can be happy. Everything a company does, whether it's blatantly obvious or not, is to make more money. Even companies that donate to charity do so to boost public image for the sake of more profits. To think otherwise is just being naive. Because they know the esporscene can't survive with the conditions that they gave kespa. Becayse they're doing it to kill SC and try to make people buy SC2. Because the greed is killing the Starcraftscene. I hear it already happened with WoW with MLG because of Blizzard demands so why people think this attempt will be any better i don't know. Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:47 StarStruck wrote:
That is why I said it's indirect and there is no way of knowing. The costs they have for running the scene is absolutely ridiculous: housing, food, uniforms, training facilities, stadiums, commercial costs, etc. This doesn't even scratch the surface. Wow some people. If anything they're making nickels and quarters off of this and not much more. Can you imagine a western company ever owning a pro videogame team? It'll never happen. Its so sad it took so long to get where it is today with sponsors to now possibly be thrown away. What happened with MLG and the WOW scene? i am curious to know. I seem to remember Blizzard forcing exuberant license fees on an industry in its infancy which led to it having to close.
http://www.gotfrag.com/wow/story/44860/So much miss information on this forum...
Too many anti anything corporate on this forum, zomg i think I heard something about Blizzard and e-sports they are evil and are greedy and must have shut them down because they were charging them too much(Every company is greedy).
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On May 28 2010 04:06 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:03 wiesel wrote:
Sorry but what has kespa to do with if you can watch sc2 or not? Or are you from korea? Watching professional Korean SC2 I meant, I thought that went without saying. A new wave of Korean pros or the current bunch?
If you mean the latter, I also think it would be exciting to have the better-known SC1 pros compete in SC2. However, it might be selfish to think that way, considering the years of effort that they put into SC1.
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On May 28 2010 04:09 Jayson X wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get all the happiness in this thread at all. When i read this at work my jaw dropped down to the floor. So "pay for our services"-GOM-fucking-TV is going to be IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING Starcraft 1 and 2 related? Are you KIDDING ME!? I can't just fucking believe this shit! I'm so fucking full of anger right now. If this is going to hurt/break/shut down/ anything that i followed for nearly a decade i'm fucking done with you Blizzard. F.U.C.K.I.N.G. D.O.N.E.! !!!!!!!!!!!¨"*ç%&/(
Not really..
CJ owns OGN as well so its obvious they're going to continue broadcasting and MBC probably will also negotiate a good deal for both parties.
This is just their way of becoming the one giving the permission to do shit rather than kespa being the guys doing that.
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If you had to pick between a large sum of money or an even larger sum of money I'm pretty sure you would make the same decision as Blizzard. Anyone that says otherwise is lying. Blizzard is making the right choice regardless of what the people want.
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On May 28 2010 03:43 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 28 2010 03:20 hacpee wrote:On May 28 2010 03:12 Senx wrote:
In what way are major sponsors more interested in a korean exclusive league compared to a global league?
How on earth do people come to the conclusion that GOMTV/Blizzard won't pick up any major sponsors, when the sponsors main objective for these types of of events is to get maximum exposure.
Global exposure compared to national exposure.. hmmm.
And to people who think the SC2 scene will be dead in 2-3 years, you seriously think the game will just die as the last expansion hits the stores? I don't see Blizzard messing up THAT badly. There are major sponsors of games right now. Microsoft, Intel, HP, and other companies are doling out tens of thousands of dollars on prize money. That isn't the problem. The problem is that these sponsors move on to the newest game pretty quickly. Money dries out for old games. If you have companies changing their sponsoring lineup every 2-3 years, then players won't be willing to dedicate as hard to training. All their previous practice will be wasted when a new game comes out. So why hasn't Brood War died out? Because of how the korean scene is structured. The sponsors basically own the teams.
Yeah it couldn't possibly be because people are still interested it in or anything. Nah. -.-
On May 28 2010 03:34 WiljushkA wrote:
i didnt realise there were people that thought BW WOULDNT die out regardless of what happens.
And exactly why should BW die?
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oh man, the company kespa snubbed is now in charge. I can't wait to see those talks XD
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On May 28 2010 04:16 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:09 Jayson X wrote:On May 28 2010 03:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get all the happiness in this thread at all. When i read this at work my jaw dropped down to the floor. So "pay for our services"-GOM-fucking-TV is going to be IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING Starcraft 1 and 2 related? Are you KIDDING ME!? I can't just fucking believe this shit! I'm so fucking full of anger right now. If this is going to hurt/break/shut down/ anything that i followed for nearly a decade i'm fucking done with you Blizzard. F.U.C.K.I.N.G. D.O.N.E.! !!!!!!!!!!!¨"*ç%&/( Not really.. CJ owns OGN as well so its obvious they're going to continue broadcasting and MBC probably will also negotiate a good deal for both parties. This is just their way of becoming the one giving the permission to do shit rather than kespa being the guys doing that.
It was already written that cj has no influence what so ever.. They are only 25% stock holder in gom.. nothing more..
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On May 28 2010 03:46 infinity2k9 wrote:
I hear it already happened with WoW with MLG because of Blizzard demands so why people think this attempt will be any better i don't know.
A huge deterrent from the success of these games as an e-sport was largely driven by the fact that they just weren't entertaining from a spectator's perspective. Even amongst the communities that played these games watching commentated pro level games wasn't a huge thing for players. Starcraft has a much higher entertainment value, even for people that aren't hardcore fans. I have a bunch of friends who are casual, low ranked, SC gamers who don't follow the pro-scene of starcraft at all, but enjoyed watching the HDH that just happened. Simply put, the game is just fun to watch.
All the backing and support a company pours into a game is moot if the game itself isn't something viewers want to see. So I think it's unfair to make that comparison.
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Welp... it is what it is... I hope it works out somehow. "/
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On May 28 2010 03:43 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 03:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 28 2010 03:20 hacpee wrote:On May 28 2010 03:12 Senx wrote:
In what way are major sponsors more interested in a korean exclusive league compared to a global league?
How on earth do people come to the conclusion that GOMTV/Blizzard won't pick up any major sponsors, when the sponsors main objective for these types of of events is to get maximum exposure.
Global exposure compared to national exposure.. hmmm.
And to people who think the SC2 scene will be dead in 2-3 years, you seriously think the game will just die as the last expansion hits the stores? I don't see Blizzard messing up THAT badly. There are major sponsors of games right now. Microsoft, Intel, HP, and other companies are doling out tens of thousands of dollars on prize money. That isn't the problem. The problem is that these sponsors move on to the newest game pretty quickly. Money dries out for old games. If you have companies changing their sponsoring lineup every 2-3 years, then players won't be willing to dedicate as hard to training. All their previous practice will be wasted when a new game comes out. So why hasn't Brood War died out? Because of how the korean scene is structured. The sponsors basically own the teams.
The problem with your logic is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions ending with the miraculous conclusion that SC2 just CANNOT become anything like SC1.
Also, BW definitely did NOT last so long solely because of how the leagues are structured.
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On May 28 2010 04:16 domane wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2010 04:06 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:03 wiesel wrote:
Sorry but what has kespa to do with if you can watch sc2 or not? Or are you from korea? Watching professional Korean SC2 I meant, I thought that went without saying. A new wave of Korean pros or the current bunch? If you mean the latter, I also think it would be exciting to have the better-known SC1 pros compete in SC2. However, it might be selfish to think that way, considering the years of effort that they put into SC1.
Well either way really. At release there would be new pros but in time more and more old SC1 pros would be likely to make the switch or atleast try.
And with "pro" I mean players making a living out of playing the game, not the ones holding a kespa licence. It's of course unreasonable to expect the new wave to have salaries matching the top BW pros at release but I see no possible reason why there wouldn't be big stars and high payed SC2 pros in time.
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I still think KeSPA/OGN/MBC was not/are not planning to make the switch to SC1 and Blizzard tries to circumvent this by selling GOM-TV the rights for both BW and SC2 (to basically kill BW and push SC2).
If I was working in marketing at Blizzard I would point to the korean e-sports scene and say 'You need these guys with you'.
Think they are scared about people like myself that won't even purchase SC2 and just stick to playing BW but at the same time if they kill OSL/MSL and Proleague well then I probably will switch just to feed the RTS junkie inside of me.
Blizzard being a company is just being completely rational in this regard even though I would feel pretty pissed on ^^
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Welp, KeSPA cant just wave their penises around in Blizzard's face anymore. I guess they never anticipated they'd play hardball
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On May 28 2010 04:16 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:09 Jayson X wrote:On May 28 2010 03:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get all the happiness in this thread at all. When i read this at work my jaw dropped down to the floor. So "pay for our services"-GOM-fucking-TV is going to be IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING Starcraft 1 and 2 related? Are you KIDDING ME!? I can't just fucking believe this shit! I'm so fucking full of anger right now. If this is going to hurt/break/shut down/ anything that i followed for nearly a decade i'm fucking done with you Blizzard. F.U.C.K.I.N.G. D.O.N.E.! !!!!!!!!!!!¨"*ç%&/( Not really.. CJ owns OGN as well so its obvious they're going to continue broadcasting and MBC probably will also negotiate a good deal for both parties. This is just their way of becoming the one giving the permission to do shit rather than kespa being the guys doing that.
Oh yes and butterflies will fly over green gras and everyone is happy and yay.
All i see is one stupid ass unprofessional entity being replaced by another. Give me a break.
So instead of forming something new that ties the teams, the players and the broadcasters together to create the most stable enviroment we see Blizzard, a company that only started to give two fucks about the scene because they had something new on the way they wanted to promote, has given GOM-TV a streaming company / tournament hoster that, like everybody else is all about ratings, EXCLUSIVE rights to everything.
Is
anybody
fucking
home?
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On May 28 2010 04:40 Jayson X wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:16 Puosu wrote:On May 28 2010 04:09 Jayson X wrote:On May 28 2010 03:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get all the happiness in this thread at all. When i read this at work my jaw dropped down to the floor. So "pay for our services"-GOM-fucking-TV is going to be IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING Starcraft 1 and 2 related? Are you KIDDING ME!? I can't just fucking believe this shit! I'm so fucking full of anger right now. If this is going to hurt/break/shut down/ anything that i followed for nearly a decade i'm fucking done with you Blizzard. F.U.C.K.I.N.G. D.O.N.E.! !!!!!!!!!!!¨"*ç%&/( Not really.. CJ owns OGN as well so its obvious they're going to continue broadcasting and MBC probably will also negotiate a good deal for both parties. This is just their way of becoming the one giving the permission to do shit rather than kespa being the guys doing that. Oh yes and butterflies will fly over green gras and everyone is happy and yay. All i see is one stupid ass unprofessional entity being replaced by another. Give me a break. So instead of forming something new that ties the teams, the players and the broadcasters together to create the most stable enviroment we see Blizzard, a company that only started to give two fucks about the scene because they had something new on the way they wanted to promote, has given GOM-TV a streaming company / tournament hoster that, like everybody else is all about ratings, EXCLUSIVE rights to everything. Is anybody fucking home?
did you even read Morhaime's letter? They tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried to negotiate with KeSPA who for some reason couldn't get over some stupid notion that they had a right to snub Blizzard for enforcing basic copyright laws.
Honestly, pulling Brood War and then giving all rights to the company KeSPA INTENTIONALLY snubbed a few years ago is just poetic justice.
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EPT
