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On May 27 2010 22:50 Fluffy Pingu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:41 birchy wrote:On May 27 2010 22:39 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
I am not sure if any one has mentioned this before in this thread, but has anyone thought of the implications of this on general copyright legislation issues?
If I were to liken Starcraft to a tool for creating content. Then this is like Sony charging me to put photos I have taken using its camera on Facebook. Does not anyone just find that illogical?
Although no matter how much I detest the actions of KeSPA and wants to see an opportunity for something better to replace it, but I do not want to see Blizzard setting such a dangerous precedent.
If I was an alarmist politician, I would be saying the next thing you know Blizzard would be charging you whenever you go off to a friend's house to watch him play Starcraft. You can't compare it to a camera. Its an IP not a physical media. So if I were to use any software to create a website for example, I need to pay rights fees to the software creator on top of the issue licence fee? It is not physical does not mean it is not a 'tool'. If I were to buy a tool for the purpose it is intended for, I do not expect to be charged any extra when I use it for that purpose.
It doesn't work like that. Else you could label pretty much everything that's copyrighted as a tool.
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How is it suppose to work then?
I see it as a tool to create content for my personal enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.
Which is markedly different from say music or films.
Please enlighten me.
Edit:
Let me add this. How could you use that logic to label "pretty much everything that's copyrighted" as a tool?
I think the distinction is quiet clear.
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Blizzard have hi-jacked the users control over: LAN play, tournaments, replays, maps, custom content, and every single event including Starcraft 2.
This is the perfect analogy of a market liberal economy converting to communism overnight. We all remember what happened with communist countries, right? North-Korea chose communism, South-Korea chose economic liberalism. Which functions better?
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On May 27 2010 22:56 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
How is it suppose to work then?
I see it as a tool to create content for my personal enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.
Which is markedly different from say music or films.
Please enlighten me.
Well for your friends there's no problem for profit then yeah there's a problem, you just can't label something like this as a tool. If you could why would GOM kespa even talk to blizzard?
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On May 27 2010 22:50 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +
No, but if you are a RTS gamer you better understand the game.
Please post something constructive instead of these one line bullshit posts.
Maybe I should increase my bullshit line to two lines, like you just did. Anyway- Compare it to watching football, I understand what's going on, I have eyes and the knowledge to figure out what is going on and what is going to happen. But it wouldn't be the same without having that guy who gives his professional opinion, can give random trivia and also be very involved in the game and has the power to get your adrenaline flowing. The most important part of any sport. Fuck yeah commentators.
So give me one good reason they should get English commentary, all the fans are located in Korea and seeing that no pro gamer are foreign there's no reason to even invest in something like that.
But sure, by all means, belive all the empty promises Blizzard/Activison is spoon feeding you. They sure got an awesome track record of failure.
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all the fans are located in Korea
What?
They sure got an awesome track record of failure.
Enlighten me.
A good reason to get english commentators would be so the rest of the world may enjoy Starcraft as an e-sport. Good enough reason?
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On May 27 2010 22:59 birchy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:56 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
How is it suppose to work then?
I see it as a tool to create content for my personal enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.
Which is markedly different from say music or films.
Please enlighten me. Well for your friends there's no problem for profit then yeah there's a problem, you just can't label something like this as a tool. If you could why would GOM kespa even talk to blizzard?
If you are making commercial profits is your main reason. Let me provide another example then - my first example would have worked as well. I use Microsoft products daily in my work, creating MY intellectual property which I on-sell to clients. So are you suggesting that Microsoft will have a right in charging me a fee on each IP I create?
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what what whaaaaaat?
Blizzard-clan ain't nuttin' to F with!
... I don't really get it though.... how will this affect sc&sc2 in korea?
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On May 27 2010 23:02 Fluffy Pingu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:59 birchy wrote:On May 27 2010 22:56 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
How is it suppose to work then?
I see it as a tool to create content for my personal enjoyment and the enjoyment of my friends.
Which is markedly different from say music or films.
Please enlighten me. Well for your friends there's no problem for profit then yeah there's a problem, you just can't label something like this as a tool. If you could why would GOM kespa even talk to blizzard? If you are making commercial profits is your main reason. Let me provide another example then - my first example would have worked as well. I use Microsoft products daily in my work, creating MY intellectual property which I on-sell to clients. So are you suggesting that Microsoft will have a right in charging me a fee on each IP I create?
Well they are designed for creating stuff, starcraft isn't it its a game. Apple and oranges in all your examples.
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On May 27 2010 23:00 MaYuu wrote:
So give me one good reason they should get English commentary, all the fans are located in Korea and seeing that no pro gamer are foreign there's no reason to even invest in something like that.
But sure, by all means, belive all the empty promises Blizzard/Activison is spoon feeding you. They sure got an awesome track record of failure.
The same reason every other sport has commentators for different languages when rebroadcasting in different countries. Obviously all the fans are *not* just in Korea or we wouldn't be posting in this thread or on this website. There's nothing to stop them from putting up an english stream for the rest of the world outside of Korea.
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On May 27 2010 22 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 27 2010 22 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:58 Perfect Balance wrote:
Blizzard have hi-jacked the users control over: LAN play, tournaments, replays, maps, custom content, and every single event including Starcraft 2.
This is the perfect analogy of a market liberal economy converting to communism overnight. We all remember what happened with communist countries, right? North-Korea chose communism, South-Korea chose economic liberalism. Which functions better?
Communism? Do you even know what that means? North Korea is a dictature, it's not even close to communism.
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[/QUOTE]
Well they are designed for creating stuff, starcraft isn't it its a game. Apple and oranges in all your examples.[/QUOTE]
Do I have to use something in the way that the person made it tells me to?
I bought my TV, what if I do not want to watch it and just want to smash it to bits?
Starcraft or any other game may not have been made to be used as a tool, but as the product evolves, it becomes a tool and can be perceived as a tool. The original creator of the product may not agree to that use, but why should they have the right to stop me from using it the way I want to after I have paid the legal licence fees?
Anyway, I do not think you are going to agree and you don't seem to be providing any concrete arguments, so I will stop here.
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Monopolies and "exclusive contracts" are never a good thing for the customers.
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On May 27 2010 23:09 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
Do I have to use something in the way that the person made it tells me to?
I bought my TV, what if I do not want to watch it and just want to smash it to bits?
Starcraft or any other game may not have been made to be used as a tool, but as the product evolves, it becomes a tool and can be perceived as a tool. The original creator of the product may not agree to that use, but why should they have the right to stop me from using it the way I want to after I have paid the legal licence fees?
Anyway, I do not think you are going to agree and you don't seem to be providing any concrete arguments, so I will stop here.
Do you have any legal precedent or evidence? Any clue at all what you're talking about?
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On May 27 2010 23:04 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 23:00 MaYuu wrote:
So give me one good reason they should get English commentary, all the fans are located in Korea and seeing that no pro gamer are foreign there's no reason to even invest in something like that.
But sure, by all means, belive all the empty promises Blizzard/Activison is spoon feeding you. They sure got an awesome track record of failure. The same reason every other sport has commentators for different languages when rebroadcasting in different countries. Obviously all the fans are *not* just in Korea or we wouldn't be posting in this thread or on this website. There's nothing to stop them from putting up an english stream for the rest of the world outside of Korea.
The sponsors are what pay for it to be broadcasted in the first place. What advantage is there to pay to run an english stream with english commentators? This isn't a case of rebroadcasting.
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On May 27 2010 23:09 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
Well they are designed for creating stuff, starcraft isn't it its a game. Apple and oranges in all your examples.[/QUOTE]
Do I have to use something in the way that the person made it tells me to?
I bought my TV, what if I do not want to watch it and just want to smash it to bits?
Starcraft or any other game may not have been made to be used as a tool, but as the product evolves, it becomes a tool and can be perceived as a tool. The original creator of the product may not agree to that use, but why should they have the right to stop me from using it the way I want to after I have paid the legal licence fees?
Anyway, I do not think you are going to agree and you don't seem to be providing any concrete arguments, so I will stop here.[/QUOTE]
Yes but starcraft isn't your ip you don't own starcraft just because you brought the game its blizzards ip read up on ip laws, You can't go round going around acting like you own the ip just cuase you brought a copy off a game its a simple as that. Whats hard to understand? By your logic you can make the exact same game and say its yours and sell it off.
Gaming is a service.
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On May 27 2010 22:58 Perfect Balance wrote:
Blizzard have hi-jacked the users control over: LAN play, tournaments, replays, maps, custom content, and every single event including Starcraft 2.
This is the perfect analogy of a market liberal economy converting to communism overnight. We all remember what happened with communist countries, right? North-Korea chose communism, South-Korea chose economic liberalism. Which functions better?
Don't confuse free market economics with outright IP theft and piracy.
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On May 27 2010 23:01 HeIios wrote:What? Enlighten me. A good reason to get english commentators would be so the rest of the world may enjoy Starcraft as an e-sport. Good enough reason?
Yeah, the fans that actually show up and watch the games are located in Korea, unless you count the 2 white guys that's in the crowd every now and then. Other then that there's pretty much non-existent. Sure, the gom-tv with tasteless and SDM were awesome but remember in the end?
If you did not catch it live you had to pay to watch, or wait 2-3 weeks. But I guess if they invest in a English providing commentator you have to get money somehow.
Blizzards track record of failure starts after blizzard north left. Everyone knows that the magic in WoW (which was their big project at that time)was gone when the expansions was released. Even if there were some light with the Arena blizzard was fast enough to self implode when big contest holders such as MLG and ESL was forced to back out. The major and most prestigious tournament was set by blizzard to be at Bliz-Con. Now Blizzard has even teamed up with Activision, if you don't know their background you can Google it and look up what they have done for e-sports it would take an infinite amount of time to write down all their miss steps.
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On May 27 2010 23:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 22:58 Perfect Balance wrote:
Blizzard have hi-jacked the users control over: LAN play, tournaments, replays, maps, custom content, and every single event including Starcraft 2.
This is the perfect analogy of a market liberal economy converting to communism overnight. We all remember what happened with communist countries, right? North-Korea chose communism, South-Korea chose economic liberalism. Which functions better? Don't confuse free market economics with outright IP theft and piracy.
KeSPA paid to broadcast BW. And regardless of that, according to someone intelligent in a previous thread about this it would still count as a secondary market by Korean law anyway.
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On May 27 2010 23:10 StormsInJuly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 23:09 Fluffy Pingu wrote:
Do I have to use something in the way that the person made it tells me to?
I bought my TV, what if I do not want to watch it and just want to smash it to bits?
Starcraft or any other game may not have been made to be used as a tool, but as the product evolves, it becomes a tool and can be perceived as a tool. The original creator of the product may not agree to that use, but why should they have the right to stop me from using it the way I want to after I have paid the legal licence fees?
Anyway, I do not think you are going to agree and you don't seem to be providing any concrete arguments, so I will stop here. Do you have any legal precedent or evidence? Any clue at all what you're talking about?
No. I do not need to talk about legal precedents. Why do I need to talk about legal precedents when I am hinting the law itself could be unjustified? As a consumer (think of yourself as a consumer), I pay for a product someone creates (one-off purchase) and I pay for a service someone provides.
Blizzard is not providing a service to me, so why should I pay them (indirectly it may be)?
Anyway, I see software as a tool, not content. Content created by software I have purchased, I should own the IP right attached to that content I created.
If the laws say I do not own it, then it is my personal opinion it should be changed. I do not need any legal background to say that.
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EPT
