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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On May 24 2010 04:42 BigDates wrote: SO it can run away while the zealots get free hits on them?!??!?!?!? I mean, i think the ultras best way it to not be microed right there T.T Um... dude. It's surrounded. It's not dealing splash damage. That is the worst imaginable situation for an ultra to be in. | ||
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Wi)nD
Canada719 Posts
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
On May 24 2010 04:48 kajeus wrote: Um... dude. It's surrounded. It's not dealing splash damage. That is the worst imaginable situation for an ultra to be in. Yeah, but as soon as you'd back the ultra up, he'd just get another surround off on you + free hits | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On May 24 2010 04:57 BigDates wrote: Yeah, but as soon as you'd back the ultra up, he'd just get another surround off on you + free hits And so you... don't attack 3 zealots with your ultra. I'm not sure I get why this is so hard. | ||
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
On May 24 2010 04:59 kajeus wrote: And so you... don't attack 3 zealots with your ultra. I'm not sure I get why this is so hard. Okay. Once he has you in a triangle form and you back up in any direction, the zealots hitting him will chase and get a couple hits off, and once he sees you moving to reposition, he will just move his zealots so they dont group up, so no AOE can be damaged, while occasionally getting a hit off. This, and the fact that after one zealots lost its shields, it can back off to regen, and then come back into the fight (shields regens faster than ultras HP) | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On May 24 2010 05:03 BigDates wrote: Okay. Once he has you in a triangle form and you back up in any direction, the zealots hitting him will chase and get a couple hits off, and once he sees you moving to reposition, he will just move his zealots so they dont group up, so no AOE can be damaged, while occasionally getting a hit off. This, and the fact that after one zealots lost its shields, it can back off to regen, and then come back into the fight (shields regens faster than ultras HP) What? I'd just attack with my hydras. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
I'm not saying ultras aren't underpowered, because I don't know. But I don't think this is a great way to test it. I do think they may have nerfed the ultra's life too much. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Sirot
48 Posts
Zealots are small melee unit that has an ability to rapidly engage enemy units, especially those leading the army. This ability also allows them to surround units easily. Zealots are much cheaper than Ultralisks and much more common. Even if the Ultralisk is perfectly capable of fighting off armored targets like Stalkers, their large size and general lack of mobility makes them prone to be stopped by zealots that are much cheaper than them. You could argue "Immortals are countered by zerglings" but Immortals have the benefit of being a ranged unit that can be protected in a blob and does not need to be in the grill of the unit they are countering. Ultralisks can't be designed as a counter to a specific type of unit because, outside a very few situations, they can't really decide who they are fighting. I can tell my Immortal to attack that Ultralisk over there because it has a ranged attack and with some certainty, I can assume that the Immortal is doing damage. I can't say the same for the Ultralisk. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
soooo saddddd. 3 zealots? really? Ultras really need like 1 range (slash over zerglings and such) | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
along with say lings or hydras but i don't think those are very do-able on these current maps 70 damage to buildings is pretty sick on paper, that's a handful of shots from one ultra to kill a pylon, and probably quite a bit faster than an immortal but still cost-wise, unit build time,a nd the amount of space and pre-planning they take.... they're just for show IMO i'd never be scared of ultra compositions unless i were in the worst of situations especially after seeing that the bare minimal to solo one without losses is your #, 3 ! i can see some change to getting the utralisk into position quicker, or to deal more damage alone, would make getting them a lot more of a nicer idea, but on second thought, it's not like they take all 6 eggs on a hatchery to train it's just one egg out of the six of 300 mins + gas | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On May 23 2010 23:07 tarsier wrote: it's not really up for debate... just watch high level replays and tell me how many games you can find where a player has >3 colossus or >3 thor or bother to tech for broodlord/carrier/bc at all. the reason you very rarely see them in high level play is because mass broodlord/carrier/bc will fail 99.9% of the time unless a) you've already won or b) the other player has totally failed at scouting. this is almost exactly the same as broodwar. they're truely unstoppable units if your opponent is poor and didn't get enough anti air because he didn't scout. as for thor and colossus, massing them is overkill and totally weakens your army. you only need as many thors as it takes to cause a player to think twice about making mass air, you only need as many colossus as it takes to make a player think twice about pumping mass light units and you only need as many ultralisks as it takes to make people think twice about pumping mass armored units like stalker/roach etc... i don't know - we'll find out whether it works or not in time. bcs and carriers are used at the highest levels of play in bw, and have been successful even when the opponent knows they are coming and has resources. ever watched a TvT? | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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IrT4nkz
229 Posts
Unupgraded too... what the hell, you won't find unupgraded Ultra's in a ladder match other than bronze/silver leagues (copper/bronze) | ||
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Red Alert
United States119 Posts
In sc1, 3 zealots do just as well vs an ultra as they do in sc2. For 100 extra minerals, you get frenzy+splash+force field destruction. You even get a nice bonus to buildings, which makes them great vs static defense. I'd like to see you run this "test" with more realistic numbers and upgrades. | ||
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Red Alert
United States119 Posts
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On May 24 2010 05:03 BigDates wrote: Okay. Once he has you in a triangle form and you back up in any direction, the zealots hitting him will chase and get a couple hits off, and once he sees you moving to reposition, he will just move his zealots so they dont group up, so no AOE can be damaged, while occasionally getting a hit off. This, and the fact that after one zealots lost its shields, it can back off to regen, and then come back into the fight (shields regens faster than ultras HP) this is under the retarded assumption that the only 4 units on the entire map are 1 ultra and 3 zeals. in any realistic situations the ultra is hitting at least 4-5 zeals at the same time no matter what, since there is an army for both players. You dont understand this game if you dont realize that the video showed the ultra in the absolute worst position possible, nothing can change that. and if you apply micro to one side you must apply it to the other, ie when you run zeal away then bring it back immediately, ultra would auto-target damaged zeal. | ||
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Red Alert
United States119 Posts
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