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On May 21 2010 19:56 ToT)OjKa( wrote:
I don't like this idea, there is no need really.
If an idiot makes a retarded thread then they'll get called out.
They either accept the wisdom of the gods or continue to wallow in filth.
Tossing all the non-leet dudes into a cesspool is not good for anyone and it's only going to make the higher tier players stop trying to teach these fools and instead just browse the sub-forum where the leet shines through.
And the above post is very true
the problem is that the noob:good players ratio is so huge now. I was a d+ terran on iccup and I am fluctuating at around 1950 elo on sc2 ladder.
Maybe 3 years ago they'd get called out, but that's not gonna happen if everyone else is an idiot too.
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It's so stupid taking a beta version of a game and generalizing it to the games status 10 years from now.
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I like the idea. this might actually be nice for nonhigh ranked players too. To get more perspectives of highlevel players
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If TL just start to enforce their rules this wouldn't be a problem. Maybe they go easy on OPs because they know its beta but the overall quality of this forum is way below the TL standard. At least the TL BW forum I knew before SC2 beta was released. I think TL should resurrect their legendary alpha squadron to clean up this forum from bad posts. There are so many posts whining about balance over and over without a significant amount of replays or vods. And some of them disguise themselves as discussion threads but they should also require replays or vods. And if you want to discuss balance, show at least one replay or vod where you got the opposite result. Otherwise the discussion will just be another buff this and nerf that thread and not constructive discussion.
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On May 21 2010 20:06 cartoon]x wrote:
It's so stupid taking a beta version of a game and generalizing it to the games status 10 years from now.
How does that have anything to do with this? The quality of the forums has gone terribly down, not because the players are bad but rather because they have no intention to actually post well or spend time on thinking if they can actually contribute anything. You can be a good strategy forum poster without being better than the average wow player at the game.
Tef, the moderation is very very active and a lot of posts get removed all the time. The thing is that the userbase has gone through the roof lately and the moderator team hasn't grown in size at all. The amount of work is no doubt huge. Giving the very top players who've proven to also be good forum users rights to censor bad advice in the strategy forum would make the moderators job a bit easier but I have no idea if it would have some bad things attached to it.
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United States47024 Posts
The problem with this idea is that other than the express purpose of communicating balance issues to Blizzard, this sort of forum serves little to no purpose. If high-level players want to discuss their play in a closed setting, they have private forms of communication for that. If they want to present content, they can already do so in the more open format.
On May 21 2010 20:02 Necrosjef wrote:Unfortunately my friend this doesn't seem to be the case. Let me explain. Lets use Voidrays as an example. 1. Idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. - He gets told how to counter and goes away. 2. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. etc etc etc etc etc 202. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. Blizzard comes along and reads the TL forums. Oh well VR is clearly OP look at all these threads about how strong it is - we must nerf! The problem with it is that there is just alot more noobs than what their is pros and also that alot of pros would rather play than cry. This leads to a situation where noobs are screaming and they are all screaming and arguing with people who know better because they would rather cry than improve. Happens in all RTS games, unfortunately developers of a game listen to a stupid majority rather than an experienced minority. SC2 is apparently destined to fail because of this, like so many other RTS games in the last 10 years. Shame but I guess if you wanna win you gotta play Terran 
In this context, the "pro-only subforum" is only useful as a means to bitch about balance to Blizzard. In terms of generating real content/discussion for the site, it would be fairly pointless.
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It's true what you say about mass threads with the same shit but that is sadly a case of moderating and just how much they can put their foot down and say
" NO, NO MORE VOID RAY SHIT, if you have trouble then please refer to this thread"
Maybe instead of a sub forum for gosu they should have a sub forum for each race, then you could have stickies by lovely members of this site for build orders and common troubles for x race vs x unit.
Although that idiots will still post shit but it will be a lot easier to see
"VOID RAY WTF"
and close the topic and link to the "VOID RAY WTF guide" thread and warn the idiot and tell him to learn to read and then offer to pay for some tuition and ting
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What is this? Some kind of support group for those who don't make it to diamond league? 
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That's stupid. Just as rating would say so much about skill. I know a 1900 rating guy getting beaten up by a 1400 rating guy every game because the last guy doesn't play so much ladder. Now even the 1900 rating guy is far from beeing maxed out on score because he plays few.
Unlike WoW Arena, for example, where the only way to train properly is to use the ladder, or poker where pretty much the same will apply, RTS players do not depend on the ladder to train, thus there will be many who do not have high ratings but still be extraordinary good.
A bit more extreme example: Check out WC3 ladder. There are almost no pro players at the top. Nobody ladders anymore. This might be because the ladder is tainted with cheaters, but was this way before as well. They just do not care about it because they have better practice partners via custom games.
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On May 21 2010 20:02 Necrosjef wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 19:56 ToT)OjKa( wrote:
I don't like this idea, there is no need really.
If an idiot makes a retarded thread then they'll get called out.
They either accept the wisdom of the gods or continue to wallow in filth.
Tossing all the non-leet dudes into a cesspool is not good for anyone and it's only going to make the higher tier players stop trying to teach these fools and instead just browse the sub-forum where the leet shines through.
And the above post is very true Unfortunately my friend this doesn't seem to be the case. Let me explain. Lets use Voidrays as an example. 1. Idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. - He gets told how to counter and goes away. 2. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. etc etc etc etc etc 202. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. Blizzard comes along and reads the TL forums. Oh well VR is clearly OP look at all these threads about how strong it is - we must nerf!
You gotta be kidding me. Do you seriously think that blizzard blindly makes balance change based on how many people complain about it?
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I fully support this idea, would actually make reading strategy threads worthwhile and not an endless trawl for useful, justified and experienced opinion.
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I think this is an ok idea, high level players would be able to discuss strats with eachother more easily, not having to read 10 "newbie" posts and then 1 good one from another high level player hoping that player will see the response to his post since there will have been another 10-20 "newbie" posts in the meantime.
It would make reading threads less time consuming having to scroll down looking for a "known" player to see his opinion on it. In the end good and worse players can benefit from this. Though i dont really like the fact that some worse players cant make suggestions, sometimes they are good at theorycrafting but just not at the game.
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On May 21 2010 20:14 teekesselchen wrote:
That's stupid. Just as rating would say so much about skill. I know a 1900 rating guy getting beaten up by a 1400 rating guy every game because the last guy doesn't play so much ladder. Now even the 1900 rating guy is far from beeing maxed out on score because he plays few.
Unlike WoW Arena, for example, where the only way to train properly is to use the ladder, or poker where pretty much the same will apply, RTS players do not depend on the ladder to train, thus there will be many who do not have high ratings but still be extraordinary good.
A bit more extreme example: Check out WC3 ladder. There are almost no pro players at the top. Nobody ladders anymore. This might be because the ladder is tainted with cheaters, but was this way before as well. They just do not care about it because they have better practice partners via custom games.
Then make it invite only? Not a hard problem to solve.
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On May 21 2010 20:21 DanteStyle wrote:
I think this is an ok idea, high level players would be able to discuss strats with eachother more easily, not having to read 10 "newbie" posts and then 1 good one from another high level player hoping that player will see the response to his post since there will have been another 10-20 "newbie" posts in the meantime.
Maybe there could be an option like "hide all posts from players below rating XXX" combined with the need for a SC2 account name to be added in the account. What would only work as soon as there is some official or always up to date ladder page.
On May 21 2010 20:23 Red Alert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 20:14 teekesselchen wrote:
That's stupid. Just as rating would say so much about skill. I know a 1900 rating guy getting beaten up by a 1400 rating guy every game because the last guy doesn't play so much ladder. Now even the 1900 rating guy is far from beeing maxed out on score because he plays few.
Unlike WoW Arena, for example, where the only way to train properly is to use the ladder, or poker where pretty much the same will apply, RTS players do not depend on the ladder to train, thus there will be many who do not have high ratings but still be extraordinary good.
A bit more extreme example: Check out WC3 ladder. There are almost no pro players at the top. Nobody ladders anymore. This might be because the ladder is tainted with cheaters, but was this way before as well. They just do not care about it because they have better practice partners via custom games. Then make it invite only? Not a hard problem to solve.
Ok, that sounds better. Would be alot of work for TL admins however.
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well they're adding a new Diamond league so it should be Diamond instead of Platinum.
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Attempts like these are futile.
You can attempt to devise a system that ensures quality posts all over, but the designer would have to have superior insight that could carry over to the design. How do you chose who would be fitting for these forums, and would they, once invited/qualified, be fit to comment on all balance aspects of the game? People's insight comes in different shapes and domains, and they might not be as knowledgeable as you expect them to be.
Solution is simple though, and is one that we already practice. When the amount of information is great the student has to filter quality from rubbish. This requires him to be a good student of course, but that is one ting you can always demand of your students - for them to engage in critical reviewing of the information. When enough advice is put to the table, most of the time anyone interested enough will be able to figure out which advice to go by. So fuck the 90% rubbish comments, someone eager to learn starcraft knows what to filter out. So does blizzard.
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On May 21 2010 20:29 jstar wrote:
well they're adding a new Diamond league so it should be Diamond instead of Platinum.
good example of why we could use an invite only forum
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How would choose who will get an invite?
Post count?
Bad idea. You'll exclude the new and the not so frequent posters who can have great ideas and skill.
Rank?
Also a bad idea. How will you know which account to associate? What would stop me from lying? Or maybe I had to befriend someone and validate through there? But how would you organize such a thing? And that would be fairly cumbersome to do.
Invite?
Sure invite those you know are great, but what about the other, unknown, greats? How will you locate them? How would you prevent an elit group to bounce ideas without other input? Surely you don't want to exclude great ideas which may very well come from the outside and the unknown. And how would you choose who to invite? People with great ideas but who aren't well-liked wouldn't stand much chance to any sort of community voting.
How would you create a good segregation? I don't know and that's why I don't support this idea.
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On May 21 2010 20:16 ProoM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 20:02 Necrosjef wrote:On May 21 2010 19:56 ToT)OjKa( wrote:
I don't like this idea, there is no need really.
If an idiot makes a retarded thread then they'll get called out.
They either accept the wisdom of the gods or continue to wallow in filth.
Tossing all the non-leet dudes into a cesspool is not good for anyone and it's only going to make the higher tier players stop trying to teach these fools and instead just browse the sub-forum where the leet shines through.
And the above post is very true Unfortunately my friend this doesn't seem to be the case. Let me explain. Lets use Voidrays as an example. 1. Idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. - He gets told how to counter and goes away. 2. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. 3. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. etc etc etc etc etc 202. Another idiot makes a stupid thread about VR OP. Blizzard comes along and reads the TL forums. Oh well VR is clearly OP look at all these threads about how strong it is - we must nerf! You gotta be kidding me. Do you seriously think that blizzard blindly makes balance change based on how many people complain about it?
I don't think it.
I know its true.
Look at patch 11, 12 and now 13. All of those changes have been generated almost exclusively by noobs bitching on the official battle.net forums and on here.
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I think the admins should just handout more perm-bans really. All these temporary bans are too soft.
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EPT
