EPTGo back to your horrible game and leave Starcraft alone. This is one of the very last games where skill actually matters, and its about to die.
Blizzard is clearly reading these forums! - Page 8
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Mania[K]al
United States359 Posts
Go back to your horrible game and leave Starcraft alone. This is one of the very last games where skill actually matters, and its about to die. | ||
|
deadalnix
France120 Posts
I also remember everyone and their mom making OP's about how THEY would improve the game by adding stupid units and spells. Some of those post were okay sure, but most of them consisted out of ignorant ideas and plans. Seriously how many threads have we seen that are just like this? They also always start with "Ok, I'm just a copper/silver player but wouldn't it be cool to BLABLABLABLA". I mean seriously??? Sure. Just because some fundamental of the game are flawed. It will not be fixed by a special ability or a little unit tweak. It's also why patches like we see (add hp to this unit, change de fire rate of this one, etc . . .) will never fix the issue. | ||
|
lololol
5198 Posts
On May 21 2010 21:06 Farahgrim wrote: Another thing that makes the game hard to balance is the damage/Armor system. In broodwar you had different damage types (explosive, concussive, normal and so on) and these did different damage to different unit sizes (Small, medium, large). The common denominator for the damage types though, were that at most they could do 100% damage vs a unit. Explosive would do 100% damage vs large units for example). This system was fairly simple and worked perfectly well. It made it easy to balance the units within the game. It also made armor upgrade on par with attack upgrade. In sc2, you have units doing bonus damage vs certain armor types instead. This makes it so that units can do more than 100% damage (Marauder do 10 + 10 damage vs heavy armor and so on) and that makes armor as an upgrade alot less viable than attack. A Dragoon deals 10 to small and 20 to large A Marauder deals 10 to light and 20 to armored Just imagine how broken would BW be if Dragoons dealt 10 + 10 large(and +5 vs medium), you know that's dealing 200% damage! Now, let's add the less effective armor upgrades on top of this huge difference! +2 Marauder attack vs 2 armor marine Marauder damage: 12 + 12 Damage dealt to marine 12 - 2 = 10 damage +2 Dragoon attack vs 2 armor marine Dragoon damage: 24, 50% vs small Damage dealt to the marine (24 - 2) * 50% = 11 damage Clearly the armor upgrades in BW are better, right? If you think Marauders or Immortals or whatever deal too much damage for their cost, then the problem is that they deal too much damage for their cost, it doesn't have anything to do with the attack/armor type system in any way, shape or form, just as if Dragoons in BW dealt 50 damage per hit that wouldn't mean the attack/armor system in BW is somehow at fault or needs a fix. Really, how do you expect the Blizzard team to take criticism seriously, when it's often completely uninformed and straight up wrong? | ||
|
nyshak
Germany132 Posts
On May 21 2010 20:51 Necrosjef wrote: Good post. I like the 5th grader analogy. Pretty much spot on. The problem with the internet though is that there is no idea to tell who is the '5th grader' and who is the qualified engineer. Really all of this isn't anyones fault except for Blizzard. They are making changes based on the wrong information and it can only really be blamed on them for collecting the wrong information and then using it. Can't blame noobs for bitching but you can blame Blizzard for listening. As far as I know Blizzard uses weighed feedback. Meaning, feedback from 1 platinum player counts for much more than say, 3 bronze players (ofc I don't have their numbers, but I think this is how they work). | ||
|
MeriaDoKk
Chile1726 Posts
| ||
|
Anth13
Canada32 Posts
| ||
|
StewKer
United States301 Posts
EDIT: Terran upgrade buff does seem excessive, so actually I could see that still being talked about in the time between this patch and the next. I'm a Terran player also btw, and not even platinum! OMG and I'm saying something about my race that was buffed might be excessive!? Damn those noobs(me), damn them all to hell for telling blizzard what to do... | ||
|
ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
On May 21 2010 22:07 Count9 wrote: Wait, void rays got nerfed? I don't believe anyone here on the top level has been screaming for viod ray nerfs, they're actually pretty decent right now. On the other note, to make a game competitive and exciting to watch, it needs to be hard. Can't just nerf everything that requires too much apm so silver players don't have to learn the proper way, difficult way, to deal with something. I would say that the situation were exactly the opposite. The state of the voidray meant that it was pretty much countered by unit composition only which is why so many terrans felt the need to start going marine/ghost opener in every single game. Just to shut down ONE unit. Or why so many terrans felt the need to get a blind viking out of the first starport regardless of seeing voidrays being built or not. In patch 13, the voidray is still as strong as it was before when with other units, it is a bit more vulnerable right now when two of them goes of on their own to pick an entire base apart but most importantly, a terran is now actually capable of utilizing micro early on in a game where previously it was barely even an option. | ||
|
Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On May 21 2010 18:43 okrane wrote: One thing is clear, if a game-designer is listening to fans, the game is going down-hill: look at WoW. Well said. It would help a lot if Blizzard actively talked with top level players. I don't know if they do but it would be important. | ||
|
shlomo
258 Posts
I'm glad though that they are fixing this the smart way by adding yet another requirement for the Ultra to somewhat work but not really. On top of its 2 expensive upgrades and necessary hive tech. | ||
|
RA
Latvia791 Posts
For a simple reason, higher level players can do things which lower tiers can't and they work for them. If you get skilled enough to do them - you're gonna lose the problem. It's a typical learning curve, can't make all things easy, otherwise game becomes ridiculous. But subjectively now: - I don't get the idea with Ultralisks, I don't like the health nerf due to their susceptability to anti-armor which other races have plenty. I never use Ultras actually and doesn't feel I'm gonna now either, better get more of something else. - Adding abilities to Overseers do make them more usable (I'm a zerg player). - Massive units destroying fields is a good thing, even logical from realistic point of view. - Frenzy is ridiculous, it doesn't suit the game any way - not that it's gonna be really worth unless put on a few hydras fighting air units, imho. I was playing WC3 from it's beta, but not for years after that, and such spells/abilities don't suit StarCraft. - Void Ray range nerf is ok, for me as a zerg it doesn't really help much except it gets a bit more shots on itself before engaging queen/spore and after deciding to leave the fight. Basically more damage in some occasions. And I see how it helps terrans, it's actually a lot more nerfed vs terrans which already had means to stop them compared to zergs worthless investments in excess queens or spores. Overall I would like Blizzard to listen to players, but 80% of their decisions should go based on objective information from highest level of players. Not the ones who don't want to learn but want things to be easy. | ||
|
lololol
5198 Posts
| ||
|
VdH
Romania78 Posts
I don't see why they should upset the game's global balance just because there are guys out there who don't want to learn how to pull off a proper counter to something and yell "IMBA!!!". Edit: what I still can't understand is why they would buff terran infantry ?!!? Blizz, while you're at it, why not implement town portal for terrans as well 0.o ?!?!? | ||
|
TheTuna
United States286 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:49 Necrosjef wrote: I don't want to put words in IdrA's mouth but balance is balance. If the game is balanced at competitive level then its automatically balanced at lower levels too. This is an extreme logical fallacy. An ability that takes a large amount of skill to evade but not to use (psionic storm in some cases) will be balanced at pro level but extremely overpowered at lower skill levels. | ||
|
Glufs
Norway78 Posts
On May 21 2010 22:51 shlomo wrote: If Blizzard is reading these forums, you have to wonder about their reading comprehension skills. I'm not sure where anyone said Ultras needed a damage buff. Or that they were kited by Marauders. I couldn't agree more. Where are all the supposedly cries from low level players that reflect the current patch changes? If they read the forums, they couldn't have missed the massive thread about ZvT mech where players from all divisions almost unanimously have agreed that this match-up is very hard to beat as Zerg. I can't seem to find all these whine threads from lower-level players they are talking about. With that said, of course the top players should have more to say, as the balance should be between potential, not relative ability. | ||
|
QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
| ||
|
poolik
Norway3 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:08 stalife wrote: I didn't really care about the cost of the stim pack upgrade + shield upgrades for marines, but reducing the cost... I don't really see why they would need to.. Also, I am 2040 platinum terran player, but I really think void rays need to be nerfed (I still need to play on patch 13 to see how the change affects the gameplay). If I were at 1600 platinum and complaining about void rays, then maybe I should learn some build orders, but I've tried a lot, and although gretorp's ghost build works vs void rays, terran users shouldn't be forced to only use one build for the matchup...the 1rack/1fact/1starport into vikings is like 10~15 seconds too slow. I'm interested in the changes in patch 13. I still think something should be changed about phoenixes. Perhaps make them research the gravitation thing, but have higher attack damage to air units (so it's more of a anti air unit) how come a terran player says something like the 1rack/1fact/1starport into vikings is like 10~15 seconds too slow ??? maybe u add here how many seconds gate/core/stalker is too slow compared to reaper ? | ||
|
ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
In SC1 there are no longer any patches, instead the metagame is changed by the map makers. When Zerg is too powerful they reduce the number of maps with an easy third gas. When Terran is overpowered they make the map more open to make flanking easier. (Terrain mechanics in SC2 is a whole other discussion). When the full version is released we will have many new maps, and the ones that become popular for highlevel competition will be the ones that have the most balanced winrates at high level strategies. This will not solve all the issues (such as rock paper scissor imbalances which balance out in win percentages, or some of the deeper gameplay aspects like should an ultra break a forcefield) but it will iron out some of the racially defined problems. As well, lower level players will play maps (ahem Python) which make lower level gaming more balanced (like Blizzards anti-rush friendly novice maps)). Maps can help balance the game at diferrent levels, because the 1v1 user has/will have the ability to choose which map to play on. In this way it will selfbalance as Just wanted to add another angle which we haven't seen the evolution of in the beta thus far. | ||
|
Vattilega
United States52 Posts
On May 21 2010 18:43 okrane wrote: * Even though infestor's Infested Terrans was a bad spell, replacing it with Frenzy, a spell that is a single unit buff is again pretty questionable. As is the newest version of Corruption. (This isnt W3, we dont have super strong units which we need to buff. Stacraft is more about masses of units, so give us mass-spells please) doesn't it cost 25 energy? how is that not mass? | ||
|
SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
| ||
| ||
