|
On May 23 2010 00:18 Ayestes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 04:40 BigDates wrote:On May 22 2010 02:51 Ayestes wrote:
Allow one Mothership per Nexus and make it so Vortex only instantly captures the units and doesn't continually do it over the duration. Then tweak it's damage giving it independent Air to Ground and Air to Air attacks. Then match the DPS/Cost efficiency with a Battlecruiser in terms of boosting the damage. I honestly think that's all it needs. Yes, lets also give it the power of simultaneously firing 20 marauder rockets, and 20 viking rockets. Except that's not what I said at all, and I'm unsure if you are being sarcastic or what you mean by it if you are. After consideration, I don't think we should get more then one Mothership anymore due to Blizzard wanting that as its' role. However, I still think Vortex needs a change and the Mothership certainly needs a damage boost. While it certainly doesn't need 20 Marauder Anti-Armor Rockets underneath it and 20 Viking Rockets, a tweak to the Attack Cooldown of it's attacks and adding an additional attack that can target ground wouldn't be a bad idea - for it's price it has an extraordinary low effect on Damage Output. With that much investment, it should at least make up for a lot of that differential of spending those gas and minerals on other more traditionally used units. Right now it has very little combat presence on the field. Sure it could teleport and army to it, but with it's speed it's usually only defensive which while effective doesn't quite seem like that was it's only intention. Vortex is useless as the army can simply jump into it and wait it out - it doesn't split forces like Stasis Field. It would only win battles that you would have already won by a large margin. It's cloak can win battles, but if by the time you have the Mothership - if they don't have cloak detection it's likely again, you have already won. It's combat effeciency in terms of damage output actually hinders you in terms of cost. It's better to mix in gateway/robo/stargate units in if you want to fight. The Mothership doesn't turn fights in your favor. It's either a defensive or a humiliation unit. If that is the intention, then so be it. Otherwise, I do think it needs a Damage Efficiency boost.
I saw screw intention. Intention is why, for no particular reason, archons are as bad as they are now. Blizzard sees no need for change because they "intend" archons to only be consolation for running out of energy with your templar.
The mothership would be a lot more fun if it could be used offensively, just like archons would be more fun if they were meant to actually be useful.
Besides, if Starcraft was just what it was "intended" to be we'd never have gotten a pro-scene in the first place.
|
On May 21 2010 15:19 Hyperion2010 wrote:
I wish they would just give the arbiters a shot for 1 or 2 patches and see what happened ;_; isnt that the point of beta? Arbiters were 1000x cooler than ANY current protoss air unit (scratch that, any air unit in the game).
sad fact: SC2 air is horribly boring.
edit: I'm pro removal.
|
They could bring back time-warp but have it do the opposite of what it originally did: speed up all allied unit functions within the bubble. By functions I mean: move and attack speed, energy regeneration, shield and life regeneration, special abilities and special ability cooldowns etc...
|
On May 22 2010 13:03 morpheus2480 wrote:
I have an idea for a Mothership spell...
Why don't they make it so that a Mothership can restore energy? Similar to how a Medivac heals terran units? That would make late game play more interesting , IMHO.
What do you mean by energy? Shields or the energy used by caster units like high templars? I assume you meant shields though and I agree that would be a great idea for supporting units like immortals and archons that rely almost entirely for their shields.
Another idea would be making vortex slightly better offensively by adding a short "stun" period to targets after vortex ends. Nothing huge like 1 second, but something like 0.2-0.5 seconds so the protoss could get tiny offensive advantage from vortex instead of just using it for stalling/splitting the enemy's army. I don't think it would require more than these 2 changes to make it more useful without overbuffing it too much.
|
1 mothership max is just enough to realize it's useless and prevent noobs from spending all their money on it.
Perfect imo.
|
ok I think my 1st gamble on "exact changes" to mothership would be:
keep stats/cost the same, but increase speed by about twice as much
drop recall/keep vortex
add in 2 new spells:
1) Overload (75 energy): give the old overload ability from phoenix to the Mothership (stands still and fires really fast at multiple targets), functions basically exactly the same but since it's the mothership it does a whole lot of damage. Mothership must stand still while in overload and cannot move for a few seconds afterward. Lasts let's say 15 seconds. I kind of just picked this because I know how much blizzard loves to re-use old spells lol.
2) Psi channel(125 energy): mothership stands still (or maybe just reduces speed some... dunno) and stops attacking/providing cloak. Acts as a large shield battery/energy battery, any units in area (same as cloaking field area) start to regain sheilds/psi at double (maybe faster... I'm not sure how fast this actually is lol) the normal rate. lasts let's say 30 seconds.
|
Let the Mothership toggle between different "field" effects:
Cloaking Field: As it is now.
Psi-field: Warp Prism effect allowing reinforcements from Warpgates.
Restoration Field: Regens shields, energy, AND health at an accelerated rate.
Make it immune to Neural Parasite and increase speed a little bit.
Change Mass Recall into Mini-recall that works only on 1 unit and costs like 25 energy.
This basically turns the Mothership into a support powerhouse that would justify its investment.The psi-field effect lets you reinforce from your Warpgates and combined with the mini-recall means that you can instantly warp over Robotics/Stargate units from your base as well. Restoration field gives you a useful support effect in battle or lets you keep your army in tip-top shape. It really sucks seeing units with like full shields and like 10/HP and this lets you fix that if you are willing to get a Mothership.
|
Hmmm... this one is tricky. Being only allowed to build one forces the unit to be game-changing or pointless... additionally it is so far up the tech tree that again, it has to be game-changing or pointless.
I think removing the arbiter abilities and going for something slightly more unique: Nexus alternative, warp in field (pylon), shield battery, planet cracker... That way people wouldn't immediately say to themselves, this is a big-fat-useless-arbiter...
It pretty much has to be a support unit, so I can imagine being a shield battery like SC1 except mobile with a better rate of return would make it a good 'back of the army' support unit.
|
On May 23 2010 16:57 Sevenofnines wrote:
Let the Mothership toggle between different "field" effects:
Cloaking Field: As it is now.
Psi-field: Warp Prism effect allowing reinforcements from Warpgates.
Restoration Field: Regens shields, energy, AND health at an accelerated rate.
Make it immune to Neural Parasite and increase speed a little bit.
Change Mass Recall into Mini-recall that works only on 1 unit and costs like 25 energy.
This basically turns the Mothership into a support powerhouse that would justify its investment.The psi-field effect lets you reinforce from your Warpgates and combined with the mini-recall means that you can instantly warp over Robotics/Stargate units from your base as well. Restoration field gives you a useful support effect in battle or lets you keep your army in tip-top shape. It really sucks seeing units with like full shields and like 10/HP and this lets you fix that if you are willing to get a Mothership.
I really like these ideas, turns the mothership into the swiss army knife of the protoss army. Only thing thats a little overpowered is restoring health, energy and shields. That would be ridiculously OP, I think just recharging shields would be good enough. The only "mode" which allows the mothership to move should be the cloaking field IMO, psi-field and restoration field should definitely lock the mothership in place. Single unit recall would be fine but I think 10 energy per unit would be a little more reasonable. Also the shield regeneration mode should cost 2-3 energy per second just because it's definitely the most powerful choice of the 3 modes.
|
I Think actually it can be useful to backdoor with mass recall, as its ALOT bigger than recall was in BW, and can transfer a whole archon army even probably.
|
I dont consider the mothership an offensive unit anyways. Although its very hard to use effectivley, its ok for breaching a turtle terran or zerg. Mass up some chargelots and voidrays, mass recall into the middle of their base and boom. Did it once, but never got the chance to use it afterwards.
|
On May 23 2010 18:19 kidcrash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 16:57 Sevenofnines wrote:
Let the Mothership toggle between different "field" effects:
Cloaking Field: As it is now.
Psi-field: Warp Prism effect allowing reinforcements from Warpgates.
Restoration Field: Regens shields, energy, AND health at an accelerated rate.
Make it immune to Neural Parasite and increase speed a little bit.
Change Mass Recall into Mini-recall that works only on 1 unit and costs like 25 energy.
This basically turns the Mothership into a support powerhouse that would justify its investment.The psi-field effect lets you reinforce from your Warpgates and combined with the mini-recall means that you can instantly warp over Robotics/Stargate units from your base as well. Restoration field gives you a useful support effect in battle or lets you keep your army in tip-top shape. It really sucks seeing units with like full shields and like 10/HP and this lets you fix that if you are willing to get a Mothership. I really like these ideas, turns the mothership into the swiss army knife of the protoss army. Only thing thats a little overpowered is restoring health, energy and shields. That would be ridiculously OP, I think just recharging shields would be good enough. The only "mode" which allows the mothership to move should be the cloaking field IMO, psi-field and restoration field should definitely lock the mothership in place. Single unit recall would be fine but I think 10 energy per unit would be a little more reasonable. Also the shield regeneration mode should cost 2-3 energy per second just because it's definitely the most powerful choice of the 3 modes.
Agree
I would like to see someone create this new Mothership in the map editor.
I made the Psi-field Mothership really easily but i don't know how to make it toggle between different abilities.
|
I second this. At least in Team battles I've had surprise mothership spawns that have saved me from death and turned games around. I think it's a bit useful in someways however insanely depressing mobility. My army has to wait for her to keep up delaying any early aggressive attacks. (One of the more common obesity issues in America). However, the timing of gaining that 100/200 energy by the time it reaches their base is just perfect for vortex  . I've used the Mass Recall once on Desert Oasis 1v1 on an island. But after winning the game clearly, I was just fooling around there. But IMHO I wish they'd bring back the Arbiters. More useful unit.
|
wormhole transit was a cool idea , allowing to defend expos with the cloak field but i guess it was too cool for blizzard
|
On May 27 2010 01:24 KiWiKaKi wrote:
wormhole transit was a cool idea , allowing to defend expos with the cloak field but i guess it was too cool for blizzard
If they gave it Wormhole Transit back, it would be useful. We can't have that.
Seriously, Protoss suffers from being by far the easiest race to harass mid-late game. Cannons pale in comparison to Missile Turrets, Planetary Fortresses, and either crawler, plus Zerg has insane mobility thanks to creep mechanics and Nydus worms. All Protoss can do is warp in 6-8 units which is usually not anywhere near enough.
If the Mothership got Wormhole Transit back, it could go to the expos, cloak cannons and workers, thus protecting it, or recall your army there to engage. Powerful, yes, overpowered, I'd say no, especially with all the mechanic changes since it was disabled.
|
Actually I have used motherships in combat and with great effect. IT's army stealth ability is a for multiplier as if you have your unit composition correct you have Anti-Air units taking out any zerg Overlords, ground unit's can slaughter anything on the ground, and pack in Colossi with range you have an invisible mobile army. I've beat zerg armies nearly double my size because of the Mother ship (Good placement of vortex and you can do more that that.
However against Terran players it is far less effective. Scanner sweep nullifies you hidden army. That said you can tick Terran's into wasting their scanner sweep by parking a mothership off their base and bringing units in and out to harass.
That all said I wish they would speed up the Mothership. It does fly very slow. Currently it does much better as a base defense than assault.
|
On May 27 2010 01:49 DMon wrote:
Actually I have used motherships in combat and with great effect. IT's army stealth ability is a for multiplier as if you have your unit composition correct you have Anti-Air units taking out any zerg Overlords, ground unit's can slaughter anything on the ground, and pack in Colossi with range you have an invisible mobile army. I've beat zerg armies nearly double my size because of the Mother ship (Good placement of vortex and you can do more that that.
However against Terran players it is far less effective. Scanner sweep nullifies you hidden army. That said you can tick Terran's into wasting their scanner sweep by parking a mothership off their base and bringing units in and out to harass.
That all said I wish they would speed up the Mothership. It does fly very slow. Currently it does much better as a base defense than assault.
so i assume that you've never played vs a zerg who used infestors then? NP counters mothership so hardcore...
|
On May 23 2010 00:31 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 00:18 Ayestes wrote:On May 22 2010 04:40 BigDates wrote:On May 22 2010 02:51 Ayestes wrote:
Allow one Mothership per Nexus and make it so Vortex only instantly captures the units and doesn't continually do it over the duration. Then tweak it's damage giving it independent Air to Ground and Air to Air attacks. Then match the DPS/Cost efficiency with a Battlecruiser in terms of boosting the damage. I honestly think that's all it needs. Yes, lets also give it the power of simultaneously firing 20 marauder rockets, and 20 viking rockets. Except that's not what I said at all, and I'm unsure if you are being sarcastic or what you mean by it if you are. After consideration, I don't think we should get more then one Mothership anymore due to Blizzard wanting that as its' role. However, I still think Vortex needs a change and the Mothership certainly needs a damage boost. While it certainly doesn't need 20 Marauder Anti-Armor Rockets underneath it and 20 Viking Rockets, a tweak to the Attack Cooldown of it's attacks and adding an additional attack that can target ground wouldn't be a bad idea - for it's price it has an extraordinary low effect on Damage Output. With that much investment, it should at least make up for a lot of that differential of spending those gas and minerals on other more traditionally used units. Right now it has very little combat presence on the field. Sure it could teleport and army to it, but with it's speed it's usually only defensive which while effective doesn't quite seem like that was it's only intention. Vortex is useless as the army can simply jump into it and wait it out - it doesn't split forces like Stasis Field. It would only win battles that you would have already won by a large margin. It's cloak can win battles, but if by the time you have the Mothership - if they don't have cloak detection it's likely again, you have already won. It's combat effeciency in terms of damage output actually hinders you in terms of cost. It's better to mix in gateway/robo/stargate units in if you want to fight. The Mothership doesn't turn fights in your favor. It's either a defensive or a humiliation unit. If that is the intention, then so be it. Otherwise, I do think it needs a Damage Efficiency boost. I saw screw intention. Intention is why, for no particular reason, archons are as bad as they are now. Blizzard sees no need for change because they "intend" archons to only be consolation for running out of energy with your templar. The mothership would be a lot more fun if it could be used offensively, just like archons would be more fun if they were meant to actually be useful. Besides, if Starcraft was just what it was "intended" to be we'd never have gotten a pro-scene in the first place.
I whole heartadly agree with you, but I'd love to see what Blizzard has to say on the topic of the Mothership. What their intention is for it. Part of the problem with the Mothership is the Fleet Beacon tends to be really only used for the Void Ray Speed upgrade instead of for Carriers or the Mothership, since it's not cost effective to tech up for just the Mothership. Fixing Vortex to be more like Stasis Field (and still awesome to watch) and giving the Mothership a better combat presence on the field would go a long way to making increasing it's offensive utility. Vortex being offensive, with Recall being defensive, and boasting a combat presence with it's support of cloaking. I think I rattled that off a little quickly, but hopefully I still made sense.
With the case of the Archon, it is the only air splash damage unit for Protoss, so it has a minor role in countering extreme numbers of Mutalisks. At least, if it had the attributes to pull this off effectively. While mildly off topic, I feel if Blizzard intends on Archons being left over High Templar that they should at least decrease the Build Time so they can be useful fairly quickly after a transformation has begun. Currently it's more valuable to keep them regenerating energy because by the time they would be combat ready they are usually plenty closer to using a spell.
|
I don't know what you're talkin about how Vortex would overlap with any Protoss ability, it's damn effective and is the solution (or just a very powerful spell) to big balled armies that are so common in SC2...
I've also had mass recall used effectively in a ladder game, I was terran and my opponent had gone mass void ray and I was camping with a ton of Turrets and a relatively fortified position. Map had been nearly mined out, and I had tons of anti-air vs his void rays (vikings, turrets, etc.). Well in comes a Mothership after he clears out around 5 turrets with void rays and mass recalls like a 50-70 supply army into my base (yes the Mothership died RIGHT after the recall as i was targeting it with vikings, but the massive HP was too much), where my siege tanks and bunkers were at the natural and on the ramp in siege mode.
Situational, yes, but I feel taht's what a Mothership should be, a situational late game solution unit.
|
On May 27 2010 06:01 FabledIntegral wrote:
I don't know what you're talkin about how Vortex would overlap with any Protoss ability, it's damn effective and is the solution (or just a very powerful spell) to big balled armies that are so common in SC2...
I've also had mass recall used effectively in a ladder game, I was terran and my opponent had gone mass void ray and I was camping with a ton of Turrets and a relatively fortified position. Map had been nearly mined out, and I had tons of anti-air vs his void rays (vikings, turrets, etc.). Well in comes a Mothership after he clears out around 5 turrets with void rays and mass recalls like a 50-70 supply army into my base (yes the Mothership died RIGHT after the recall as i was targeting it with vikings, but the massive HP was too much), where my siege tanks and bunkers were at the natural and on the ramp in siege mode.
Situational, yes, but I feel taht's what a Mothership should be, a situational late game solution unit.
purpose of vortex: split up enemy army
one of many purposes of forcefield: split up enemy army
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
