EPT[D] And Then There's the Mothership... - Page 8
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BanelingXD
130 Posts
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Ayestes
United States106 Posts
On May 27 2010 06:01 FabledIntegral wrote: I don't know what you're talkin about how Vortex would overlap with any Protoss ability, it's damn effective and is the solution (or just a very powerful spell) to big balled armies that are so common in SC2... I've also had mass recall used effectively in a ladder game, I was terran and my opponent had gone mass void ray and I was camping with a ton of Turrets and a relatively fortified position. Map had been nearly mined out, and I had tons of anti-air vs his void rays (vikings, turrets, etc.). Well in comes a Mothership after he clears out around 5 turrets with void rays and mass recalls like a 50-70 supply army into my base (yes the Mothership died RIGHT after the recall as i was targeting it with vikings, but the massive HP was too much), where my siege tanks and bunkers were at the natural and on the ramp in siege mode. Situational, yes, but I feel taht's what a Mothership should be, a situational late game solution unit. While I agree that Mass Recall can be exceptionally effective I dislike Vortex in it's current state. It does have some use with delaying the army, but I feel that in terms of using it on a big balled army that is all you are doing is delaying the battle a few seconds. If Vortex is only meant to be a "delay the battle a few seconds" spell, then by all means it is effective at doing such. It does not however give you any advantage similar to how Stasis Field worked, which seems like it may have been their intention. Admittedly, I could be horribly wrong. I don't want the Mothership to be an must-have. But right now I don't believe it is worth the supply cap unless you use it defensively for Mass Recall. Considering that the tech path gives you access to only Carriers, a Carrier effectiveness upgrade, and a Void Ray speed upgrade it also doesn't offer many other commonly used options either. Even if I get the Void Ray speed upgrade, I won't get the Mothership because I have a highly mobile army comprised of Phoenix and Void Rays. If I get Carriers (which I have been experimenting with to be "cover fire" for Colossus+GatewayMix) then I could see more justification for the Mothership, but in any attempt of using it seems like it hinders me compared to spending my resources in any other manner if I use it offensively. Delaying the inevitable or delaying victory never seems to have any impact. Using it for defense covering a string of expansions is wonderful. I dislike it being a purely defensive unit, and I don't think that was Blizzard's intention. If it is, you can pretty much ignore this post. To be used offensively, I think it really needs something more. Edit: On May 27 2010 06:11 Ideas wrote: purpose of vortex: split up enemy army one of many purposes of forcefield: split up enemy army While Vortex cannot be used to split up an enemy army (They should walk the rest of their army into it as quickly as possible, meaning you simply delayed the battle), you bring up a valid point concerning my argument above. Certainly gonna make me think about it some more. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 27 2010 06:11 Ideas wrote: purpose of vortex: split up enemy army one of many purposes of forcefield: split up enemy army Vortex sucks them in and they completely stop fighting, and can often allow you to get 70% of their army so you can easily pick off the rest, then reposition yourself close to the enemy so after vortex ends your units annihilate them, especially against Terran. Forcefield doesn't even come close to accomplishing that. Yes, it can split up the enemy army, which can still fight. If you have a super strong ball, forcefield does wonders, don't get me wrong, but it won't accomplish what a vortex will. Vortex is the equivalent of SC1 how you could stasis tanks, then move your army right next to them as the stasis wore off and instantly destroy them, except that you get to stasis like 70% of their army as opposed to 15%. EDIT: To the poster above me, from personal experience it does owrk like a massive stasis field. You don't "resume" the big battle after because the opponent's army has been so jumbled up and out of position you're left with a huge advantage. This holds true even if the rest of the opponent's army supposedly walks inside, which still makes them be out of position and lets you get free shots of htem as it's occuring. | ||
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Ideas
United States8182 Posts
On May 27 2010 06:31 FabledIntegral wrote: Vortex sucks them in and they completely stop fighting, and can often allow you to get 70% of their army so you can easily pick off the rest, then reposition yourself close to the enemy so after vortex ends your units annihilate them, especially against Terran. Forcefield doesn't even come close to accomplishing that. Yes, it can split up the enemy army, which can still fight. If you have a super strong ball, forcefield does wonders, don't get me wrong, but it won't accomplish what a vortex will. Vortex is the equivalent of SC1 how you could stasis tanks, then move your army right next to them as the stasis wore off and instantly destroy them, except that you get to stasis like 70% of their army as opposed to 15%. they're close enough in purpose that the race as a whole will benefit from a different spell replacing vortex (although admittedly it's a lot better than mass recall and if they only got rid of one I'd rather them keep vortex). | ||
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anyport1871
1 Post
Poll: Do you think Blizzard plays this game or listens to feedback yes (14) hell no (11) 25 total votes Your vote: Do you think Blizzard plays this game or listens to feedback They've butchered this game patch after patch. Make units more responsive. Take ultra and mothership out of game they dont work with this game. I think units just do too much dmg in this game. there is absolutly no micro in this game other than, oh snap his army is bigger i better back away. No high ground advantage?? wtf? Your army needs only to touch the ramp to get vision so.... big advantage The problem with ultra it died immediatly becuase ground armies in this game are balls of ranged death, there response, make it even more of a glass cannon. Wth man. This is a blatant and obvious troll, no super troll at blizzard. Come on man i was so excited about this game and its a flaming pile of dung | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
i actually think carriers are even more useless than motherships right now, ive never seen carriers being used in 1on1 | ||
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Augury
United States758 Posts
I'd say buff the speed and make it as easy to kill as a raven. | ||
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Opinion
United States236 Posts
On May 27 2010 06:54 anyport1871 wrote: Poll: Do you think Blizzard plays this game or listens to feedback yes (14) hell no (11) 25 total votes Your vote: Do you think Blizzard plays this game or listens to feedback They've butchered this game patch after patch. Make units more responsive. Take ultra and mothership out of game they dont work with this game. I think units just do too much dmg in this game. there is absolutly no micro in this game other than, oh snap his army is bigger i better back away. No high ground advantage?? wtf? Your army needs only to touch the ramp to get vision so.... big advantage The problem with ultra it died immediatly becuase ground armies in this game are balls of ranged death, there response, make it even more of a glass cannon. Wth man. This is a blatant and obvious troll, no super troll at blizzard. Come on man i was so excited about this game and its a flaming pile of dung Those are some sweet over exaggerations you have there, where did you pick those up? | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On May 27 2010 08:38 Opinion wrote: Those are some sweet over exaggerations you have there, where did you pick those up? Although anyport1871 is a tad brash, he is right in the regard that micro at the moment is limited to attack-move due to vastly improved Ai compared to Brood War. The mothership is also never seems to see action except for use in a more casual game. Although I don't think Sc2 is butchered yet, it is Beta. | ||
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Sergeras
Bulgaria185 Posts
On May 27 2010 08:46 RoarMan wrote: Even if it is Beta for the remaining time to release how can they fix all the problems,make units like the mothership actually viable somehow and not only the mothership in that regard.For 1 month until release they can't do much let alone "fix" the game. Although anyport1871 is a tad brash, he is right in the regard that micro at the moment is limited to attack-move due to vastly improved Ai compared to Brood War. The mothership is also never seems to see action except for use in a more casual game. Although I don't think Sc2 is butchered yet, it is Beta.  PS: I absolutely agree that some units right know need a huge revamp (especially the mothership )which wont happen since release is like almost here. | ||
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Opinion
United States236 Posts
On May 27 2010 08:58 Sergeras wrote: Even if it is Beta for the remaining time to release how can they fix all the problems,make units like the mothership actually viable somehow and not only the mothership in that regard.For 1 month until release they can't do much let alone "fix" the game. Patches will continue even after release. Now if I was in charge of course everything would be perfect, all units flawlessly balanced, flawless maps and every single player from casual to pro would be ecstatic with every detail of the game. But I'm perfect and my ideas are brilliant, Blizzard is just a game developer so i don't hold them up to such impossible standards. | ||
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On May 27 2010 08:46 RoarMan wrote: Although anyport1871 is a tad brash, he is right in the regard that micro at the moment is limited to attack-move due to vastly improved Ai compared to Brood War. The mothership is also never seems to see action except for use in a more casual game. Although I don't think Sc2 is butchered yet, it is Beta. If all you choose to do is a-move than that is your problem, not the games. | ||
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Perfect Balance
Norway131 Posts
Blizzard development time for Zerg: 25% Blizzard development time for Terran: 25% Remember when we first got to see the game? Zerg wasn't even IN the game at that point, but all the Protoss units and abilities were. At some point during the development, the financial people decided that it was time to "finish the game" quickly and worry about the details later. What we got was a game with only one interesting race that fits the game engine. Terran and Zerg designs look like they've been made in a hurry, especially Zerg. The fact that Protoss players complain about the ONE unit in their arsenal that doesn't completely own in some situation, is a testament to that fact. Of all the things wrong with Starcraft 2 and the races, the mothership is the last thing they should worry about.. | ||
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Ideas
United States8182 Posts
On May 27 2010 09:42 Perfect Balance wrote: Blizzard development time for Protoss: 50% Blizzard development time for Zerg: 25% Blizzard development time for Terran: 25% Remember when we first got to see the game? Zerg wasn't even IN the game at that point, but all the Protoss units and abilities were. At some point during the development, the financial people decided that it was time to "finish the game" quickly and worry about the details later. What we got was a game with only one interesting race that fits the game engine. Terran and Zerg designs look like they've been made in a hurry, especially Zerg. The fact that Protoss players complain about the ONE unit in their arsenal that doesn't completely own in some situation, is a testament to that fact. Of all the things wrong with Starcraft 2 and the races, the mothership is the last thing they should worry about.. i dunno i think terran is better in that they dont have a completely useless unit at all. yea sure reapers are garbage after 5 minutes but at least they last that long. | ||
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Kratisto
United States199 Posts
The fact that Protoss players complain about the ONE unit in their arsenal that doesn't completely own in some situation, is a testament to that fact. Of all the things wrong with Starcraft 2 and the races, the mothership is the last thing they should worry about.. To be fair, I think most Protoss players find that Templar tech is lacking compared to Robotics and that if you're going to go with a Stargate early, there's absolutely no reason to get Fleet Beacon tech when you should just transition to Robotics after your cute Phoenix or Void Ray harass. Dark Templars, in particular, seem suicidal since they have a huge build time and resource investment, but without the High Templar transition at the end. The Mothership is just a laughing stock, and if the Battlecruiser, Carrier, and Ultralisk are useless, the Mothership is an outright insult. | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
1. Link them to a nexus and allow to build 1 mothership per nexus, if the nexus dies, the mothership dies as well. 2. Remove vortex and Mass Recall and rather, make them be a full support unit, where you can choose off 3 different auras (you can only have one active at a time) kind of like the paladin in wow, the 3 auras could be invisibility, atack speed and movement speed, whatever you pick buffs your army near the mothership. Maybe every second you have the aura active it consumes energy (if you have more than 1 mothership this seems fair). 3. Just like the Arbitrer, make it do almost no damage at all, so without an army its completly useless. The carriers only need a range buff to work well. they need to outrange vikings and void rays, for sure. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On May 27 2010 09:42 Perfect Balance wrote: Blizzard development time for Protoss: 50% Blizzard development time for Zerg: 25% Blizzard development time for Terran: 25% Remember when we first got to see the game? Zerg wasn't even IN the game at that point, but all the Protoss units and abilities were. At some point during the development, the financial people decided that it was time to "finish the game" quickly and worry about the details later. What we got was a game with only one interesting race that fits the game engine. Terran and Zerg designs look like they've been made in a hurry, especially Zerg. The fact that Protoss players complain about the ONE unit in their arsenal that doesn't completely own in some situation, is a testament to that fact. Of all the things wrong with Starcraft 2 and the races, the mothership is the last thing they should worry about.. Zerg and Terran have been in the game since the initial release and demonstrations. We have seen protoss the most because blizzard has encountered the least problems when creating the race. | ||
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EvilMaishidon
United States125 Posts
On May 27 2010 09:57 Kratisto wrote: To be fair, I think most Protoss players find that Templar tech is lacking compared to Robotics and that if you're going to go with a Stargate early, there's absolutely no reason to get Fleet Beacon tech when you should just transition to Robotics after your cute Phoenix or Void Ray harass. Dark Templars, in particular, seem suicidal since they have a huge build time and resource investment, but without the High Templar transition at the end. The Mothership is just a laughing stock, and if the Battlecruiser, Carrier, and Ultralisk are useless, the Mothership is an outright insult. I agree with you on the majority of this post, however, the carriers and BCs are not UP. The carrier is flat out ridiculous against Terran, It forces them to go air. Thors are great against light, and marines are a good counter to voids. However, carriers flat out require the Terran to go air. BCs are a viable tech switch in an intense GtG game, I've used them to great effect as a tiebreaker. | ||
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