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The real problem with ZvT is Z doesn't have an answer to Tanks + Thors, other than win the game before that combo is out.
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Is the patch actually up? I can't download it
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On May 21 2010 23:12 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 22:42 MidKnight wrote:Spells like Frenzy and Corruption abilities have no place in StarCraft universe...AT ALL. Look at BW, all the spells there are ground-breaking if used correctly (except for blind or broodlings I guess). Storms, ensnare, maelstrom, lockdown, distruption web, stasis, recall, swarm, plague etc. Of course most of these spells weren't use simply because of the hard SC mechanics (no smartcasting, no tab to cycle through your units i.e.). Even JD mentioned, that he would like to use queens with ensnare in lategame ZvT, but it simply takes too much effort.Using defilers alone takes away a huge amount of APM and focus. These shitty % increases/decreases encourage W3 kind of gameplay.25% increase is nice, but it is only useful on "big units", like ultras and broodlords. Corruption ability for corruptor is still a joke. I guess their idea is to allow corruptors to kill stuff like collosi, BCs or mothership even faster, but it's just not interesting at all. I like that they recreated overseer as an additional zerg caster though. Ultras will still suck balls..Their main problem is that they die SOO fast to marauders/immortals.They can't get close enough to do that damage. Now it will be even harder.. I like that Blizz has the balls to implement these extreme changes this late in the beta (especially with the upcoming few week beta hiatus, which means there will be even less time to test these changes), but I really wish they stopped making these minor "buff" abilities. Infestor - Infested Terrans spell removed. Frenzy spell added: Costs 25 energy - Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds. I mean, seriously, these sort of abilities are straight from WoW."Immune to snare, stuns and mind control".How many of these are in the game? Stuns..Hmm.250 MM cannon? What about snares?Fungal growth? And mind control? Oh yea, infestor is the only one with that.. 2 out of 3 abilities only work in ZvZ.Guess what, ZvZs don't last that long.Also considering the only units worth frenzying are ultras and broodlords, this ability is seriously plain out stupid. Oh, and they also should get rid of shitty summoner abilities as well.Auto-Turret and infested terran are just BAD. Too W3-ish. Don't get me wrong, I love W3 and I think summoner abilities work quite well there.But this is SC universe.Spells are supposed to be ground-breaking and decide battles. These minor buffs/debuffs and useless summoner abilities just suck Concussive shells is a snare. Ultralisk + creep + frenzy = panic sets in for infantry. I can see ultralisks doing a lot better, now.
concussive shells DID_NEVER_WORK on massive units SINCE_THE_BEGINNING_OF_BETA
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On May 21 2010 23:12 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 22:42 MidKnight wrote:Spells like Frenzy and Corruption abilities have no place in StarCraft universe...AT ALL. Look at BW, all the spells there are ground-breaking if used correctly (except for blind or broodlings I guess). Storms, ensnare, maelstrom, lockdown, distruption web, stasis, recall, swarm, plague etc. Of course most of these spells weren't use simply because of the hard SC mechanics (no smartcasting, no tab to cycle through your units i.e.). Even JD mentioned, that he would like to use queens with ensnare in lategame ZvT, but it simply takes too much effort.Using defilers alone takes away a huge amount of APM and focus. These shitty % increases/decreases encourage W3 kind of gameplay.25% increase is nice, but it is only useful on "big units", like ultras and broodlords. Corruption ability for corruptor is still a joke. I guess their idea is to allow corruptors to kill stuff like collosi, BCs or mothership even faster, but it's just not interesting at all. I like that they recreated overseer as an additional zerg caster though. Ultras will still suck balls..Their main problem is that they die SOO fast to marauders/immortals.They can't get close enough to do that damage. Now it will be even harder.. I like that Blizz has the balls to implement these extreme changes this late in the beta (especially with the upcoming few week beta hiatus, which means there will be even less time to test these changes), but I really wish they stopped making these minor "buff" abilities. Infestor - Infested Terrans spell removed. Frenzy spell added: Costs 25 energy - Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds. I mean, seriously, these sort of abilities are straight from WoW."Immune to snare, stuns and mind control".How many of these are in the game? Stuns..Hmm.250 MM cannon? What about snares?Fungal growth? And mind control? Oh yea, infestor is the only one with that.. 2 out of 3 abilities only work in ZvZ.Guess what, ZvZs don't last that long.Also considering the only units worth frenzying are ultras and broodlords, this ability is seriously plain out stupid. Oh, and they also should get rid of shitty summoner abilities as well.Auto-Turret and infested terran are just BAD. Too W3-ish. Don't get me wrong, I love W3 and I think summoner abilities work quite well there.But this is SC universe.Spells are supposed to be ground-breaking and decide battles. These minor buffs/debuffs and useless summoner abilities just suck Concussive shells is a snare. Ultralisk + creep + frenzy = panic sets in for infantry. I can see ultralisks doing a lot better, now.
The only thing that frenzy adds against Terran is 25% damage. Concussive shells never worked on Ultras. But if my calculations are right Ultras do less damage to Marines than in the last patch, even with frenzy, and more damage to Marauders. The problem is that Ultras have way less health now so Marauders will bring them down easily.
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On May 21 2010 12:13 gogogadgetflow wrote:
Damage changed from 25 to 15 (+25 Armored). ...
really??? this is precisely what we don't want
What are you talking about, it's exactly what people wanted.
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Can Frenzy be cast on Brood Lords? Does it make the broodlings come out faster, or make the broodlings attack faster? If so...fucking awesome haha.
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I remember a couple patches ago everyone was complaining that void rays were *still* useless.
Ultras still suck.
Then a couple days later we'll see some retardedly amazing zerg play with new ultras.
"OMG ULTRAS ARE IMBA."
everyone will say in the stream, right before beta closes.
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On May 21 2010 23:17 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 23:12 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 22:42 MidKnight wrote:Spells like Frenzy and Corruption abilities have no place in StarCraft universe...AT ALL. Look at BW, all the spells there are ground-breaking if used correctly (except for blind or broodlings I guess). Storms, ensnare, maelstrom, lockdown, distruption web, stasis, recall, swarm, plague etc. Of course most of these spells weren't use simply because of the hard SC mechanics (no smartcasting, no tab to cycle through your units i.e.). Even JD mentioned, that he would like to use queens with ensnare in lategame ZvT, but it simply takes too much effort.Using defilers alone takes away a huge amount of APM and focus. These shitty % increases/decreases encourage W3 kind of gameplay.25% increase is nice, but it is only useful on "big units", like ultras and broodlords. Corruption ability for corruptor is still a joke. I guess their idea is to allow corruptors to kill stuff like collosi, BCs or mothership even faster, but it's just not interesting at all. I like that they recreated overseer as an additional zerg caster though. Ultras will still suck balls..Their main problem is that they die SOO fast to marauders/immortals.They can't get close enough to do that damage. Now it will be even harder.. I like that Blizz has the balls to implement these extreme changes this late in the beta (especially with the upcoming few week beta hiatus, which means there will be even less time to test these changes), but I really wish they stopped making these minor "buff" abilities. Infestor - Infested Terrans spell removed. Frenzy spell added: Costs 25 energy - Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds. I mean, seriously, these sort of abilities are straight from WoW."Immune to snare, stuns and mind control".How many of these are in the game? Stuns..Hmm.250 MM cannon? What about snares?Fungal growth? And mind control? Oh yea, infestor is the only one with that.. 2 out of 3 abilities only work in ZvZ.Guess what, ZvZs don't last that long.Also considering the only units worth frenzying are ultras and broodlords, this ability is seriously plain out stupid. Oh, and they also should get rid of shitty summoner abilities as well.Auto-Turret and infested terran are just BAD. Too W3-ish. Don't get me wrong, I love W3 and I think summoner abilities work quite well there.But this is SC universe.Spells are supposed to be ground-breaking and decide battles. These minor buffs/debuffs and useless summoner abilities just suck Concussive shells is a snare. Ultralisk + creep + frenzy = panic sets in for infantry. I can see ultralisks doing a lot better, now. The only thing that frenzy adds against Terran is 25% damage. Concussive shells never worked on Ultras. But if my calculations are right Ultras do less damage to Marines than in the last patch, even with frenzy, and more damage to Marauders. The problem is that Ultras have way less health now so Marauders will bring them down easily.
It would stop 250mm cannon as well, but they decided to make that an upgrade that most people wouldn't get before, and definitely wont get now.
Ultra will still be bad, despite all of this. It still takes way too long to get the upgrades and melee upgrade if you will be transitioning to ultras and at 450hp they will be focused very fast.
against Protoss I'm not sure. Before patch 13 ultras actually melted gateway, maybe even faster than hydra, but they couldnt actually get near them to do it. Now with Infestor casting world of warcraft buffs on stuff who knows. A switch back to immortal if you see ultras I guess. We'll see how it works out.
I really don't like the changes. I may have had issue with a few changes here and there before these, and I wasn't always sure if they were making the right decisions, but for these I am pretty much completely opposed
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If by do better you mean die faster before they get to attack then yes I agree. They could give the ultra 1k damage and I still wouldn't use it.
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On May 21 2010 23:19 Zurles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 12:13 gogogadgetflow wrote:
Damage changed from 25 to 15 (+25 Armored). ...
really??? this is precisely what we don't want What are you talking about, it's exactly what people wanted.
People wanted an Ultra damage buff? After last patch's 25?
Cool story bro.
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The only thing I dislike with the Void Ray nerf is using them in my army composition to actually counter Corruptors attacking my Colossus. Now they match range with upgraded Hydras. Might have to give them covering fire with Carrier Interceptors now or perhaps it really won't matter.
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giev antimatter league plox
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So...
When is the patch going live?
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I really think we need to try ultras before saying they suck. Everyone keeps acting like you're going to build only 1 ultra, send it at a MM tank ball, and go "WOW THAT WAS AWESOME!"
450 hp is still beefy, its 5 armor when fully upgraded, a fully upp'ed tank takes 7 shots to kill an ultra, and its hitbox is pretty large so wouldn't it absorb most the splash damage protecting your lings roach or hydra? Not to mention thats still also 27 shots from a maurader to kill one. That's a lot! so ok, 1 ultralisk gets FF'ed down, now the other 3-4 ultras you had are splash damage 2-3 shotting his MM line or getting at the tanks. Or split and flank, sending half the ultra at the front, half at the back to get at the tanks quickly, because even 1-2 of them is gonna ruin their day.
Overseer I think infested terran is still going to be useless-- 125 energy is too much though I see the reasoning of it being expensive because 0 supply massed overseers dropping infested terrans everywhere would be pretty retarded. 15 seconds may not be long enough of a life, people are gonna use overseers for contamination harassment not infested terrans.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
what
i wanted to play 4v4, where is it at?
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On May 21 2010 18:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 18:31 grog wrote:TL.net admins please make blizzard read these patch discussion threads  May be they will have some sense while balancing the game. This would be the worst idea possible. 99% of the reactions are biased inaccurate whiny bullshit.
Only good post in this entire thread. The whining going on in here is sickening.
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On May 21 2010 23:22 guitarizt wrote:
If by do better you mean die faster before they get to attack then yes I agree. They could give the ultra 1k damage and I still wouldn't use it.
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
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On May 21 2010 23:29 CrownRoyal wrote:
what
i wanted to play 4v4, where is it at?
In patch 13?
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On May 21 2010 23:30 monad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 23:29 CrownRoyal wrote:
what
i wanted to play 4v4, where is it at? In patch 13?
They didn't say they added 3v3 or 4v4 maps or ladder maps, I think them being enabled is more for map publishing currently, so you can publish larger maps.
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WTF is this terran gets another buff?
I'm glad they finally did something with the ultra but is it even that good of a modification?
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EPT
