EPT
[Spawn Larvae] Right Side Shift + Backspace Method - Page 8
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LeCastor
France234 Posts
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
i'd suggest that what with patch 1.2,, you hotkey queens individually bind spawn larva to R or T and quickly go 66r77r88r. the positioning of R relative to your hotkeys is far less awkward than the position of V. by picking a less awkward key, you can inject very fast, and what you lose in time you make up for in consistency. | ||
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
On January 18 2011 21:24 universalwill wrote: only problem with this method is that while it's fast, it's wildly inaccurate. if you ever see MrBitter's stream, you'll notice that when he hits the lategame he has migratory queens running all over the map It's not inaccurate. He reason that he has his queens running around is because he needs one dedicated queen per hatch. If you do that, it will work great. This inject method is actually so fast that when one queen is standing near two hatcheries, it receives the order to inject the other hatch before it has finished the first inject animation. Because of that, the next closest idle queen on the map will get the order and starts running. I've bound backspace to my thumb mousekey and all it requires now is 3,v,hold shift, repeat thumb click, mouse click. It is the fastest method since you do not move the mouse and in macro games I have around 40-60 larvae ready during late midgame. | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
 but its still nice to be able to use backspace every now and then, I think I will use it more with time tho.. it just doesnt feel queite right, if I double tap "4" for queens I immidietly get a queen+hatchery on screen and I dont have to select it with my mouse. every time I cycle through hatcheries with backspace I have to select with my mouse, I think this is sometimes more timeconsuming than clicking 4 and cycling through them using the minimap.. edit: the backspace injection method is also screwed up when you have extra macrohatcheries, which is something I almost always have.. | ||
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dobber
Bulgaria12 Posts
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KAgravyboat
9 Posts
Assuming you have a queen near each hatch that has enough energy to vomit larve you will not have wandering queens, as you cannot queue up injections. This allows you to make the motion even faster as you don't need to keep track of exactly how many times you've injected. Another great solution to prevent wandering queens it to follow up the injection cycle with just hitting stop on your group of queens after you're done, or a couple seconds after if a queen had to walk for a bit before injecting. Great thread though, every zerg really should be doing this or something similar. | ||
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Batesy
Australia6 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On January 25 2011 11:12 KAgravyboat wrote: Sorry if this is a repeat, it's a long thread; but if you do this trick you can "over-do" it by continuing to hold shift while alternating between backspace and clicking. Assuming you have a queen near each hatch that has enough energy to vomit larve you will not have wandering queens, as you cannot queue up injections. This allows you to make the motion even faster as you don't need to keep track of exactly how many times you've injected. I don't think this is accurate actually. Here's what I've gathered from experimentation: Queen behavior:
Inject behavior:
The net result is that if you spam backspace-shift-injection among all your queens, you will queue up every queen to inject every hatchery. This can cause the wandering queen behavior that is characteristic of backspace injecting. For example, if one of your queens is sniped at a hatchery, then spamming backspace shift-inject will cause all your queens to attempt to inject the queenless hatchery after injecting their own hatch. Ultimately one queen will get to the hatch but the rest will be stranded somewhere on the map, far away from their hatcheries. A subsequent inject cycle will shuffle their positions even more. If you instead restricted yourself to backspace shift-injecting each hatch exactly once then for N hatcheries, you will only tell one queen to run off to inject the queenless hatchery (since you will issue N inject commands among N-1 queens). This queen will, in the best case, park at the queenless hatchery. A subsequent inject cycle will cause another queen (not necessary the migrant one) to move to the now-queenless hatchery and so forth. Note in the worst case (e.g., if you haven't connected all your bases with creep) your migrant queen will not inject its second target in time. This may cause another queen to become migrant for either of the now-queenless hatcheries. And again this can snowball into wandering queen behavior. TL;DR: you really need to avoid backspace shift-injecting hatches that do not have queens next to them. Spamming backspace shift-inject or injecting all hatches once can lead to bad queen behavior otherwise. On January 25 2011 11:12 KAgravyboat wrote: Another great solution to prevent wandering queens it to follow up the injection cycle with just hitting stop on your group of queens after you're done, or a couple seconds after if a queen had to walk for a bit before injecting. Great thread though, every zerg really should be doing this or something similar. Yeah, queens wandering off to go hit a probe or something can mess up inject-queuing behavior. You should always end your inject cycle with shift-halt to make sure they don't go south. But yeah, I've been trying to get backspace injecting to work for a few weeks now. And I really like it as it feels very natural to spam at a high speed vs. 66v*click*77v*click*88v*click*. However, the mental effort to keep your queens from wandering (i.e., making sure you never inject a hatch that doesn't have a queen next to it) is relatively difficult to do when you're busy with other things. Also the cost of getting your queens back into position in a timely if they end up wandering is also very high. I'm still on the fence as to what method I'll stick with in the end. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had any better success with this problem. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
turns out reading the thread before asking a question is a useful skill toi have, dont bother answering yes, ty, i've found out reading this thread anyways :D | ||
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Sures
Germany31 Posts
On February 01 2011 03:58 Geo.Rion wrote: now that remapping is available i'd like to try this, but with ~ key, but i cant find anywhere the backspace to remap it. I lireally went trough everything i ve seen, but i did not see it. Am i blind or is it hidden? You have to look in the Camera Section! | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
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Tyler214365
51 Posts
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KAgravyboat
9 Posts
You sort of missed my point. I said if you spam it (which does make things much faster) you simply need to halt the queens when you're done. It's only 1 extra keystroke added to the sequence, but it saves the mental energy of counting how many times you have injected. Spamming or "overdoing" the injections is much much faster than double tapping a hotkey to get to each hatchery in view. You can inject all your hatches, and have no wandering queens in less than 5 seconds easily. I think I may have just forgotten to mention that you still hold shift in my method. You must also release shift when you tell your queens to halt. With this method you will only have a queen wander if you have a hatchery with no queen(with enough energy) near it. Wandering is, again, prevented by the non-queued halt at the end of the sequence. The only pitfall to this method is if you are extremely extremely on top of your injection timing. This is to say, you are injecting all your hatches almost the instant your queens have enough energy every time; then you can run into problems with spamming. If you are human, however your queens will all have a little spare energy, and the halt command at the end of the sequence becomes merely safeguard. | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On February 01 2011 09:00 KAgravyboat wrote: @Kambing, You sort of missed my point. I said if you spam it (which does make things much faster) you simply need to halt the queens when you're done. It's only 1 extra keystroke added to the sequence, but it saves the mental energy of counting how many times you have injected. Spamming or "overdoing" the injections is much much faster than double tapping a hotkey to get to each hatchery in view. You can inject all your hatches, and have no wandering queens in less than 5 seconds easily. I think I may have just forgotten to mention that you still hold shift in my method. You must also release shift when you tell your queens to halt. With this method you will only have a queen wander if you have a hatchery with no queen(with enough energy) near it. Wandering is, again, prevented by the non-queued halt at the end of the sequence. The only pitfall to this method is if you are extremely extremely on top of your injection timing. This is to say, you are injecting all your hatches almost the instant your queens have enough energy every time; then you can run into problems with spamming. If you are human, however your queens will all have a little spare energy, and the halt command at the end of the sequence becomes merely safeguard. Yeah I started doing this after I posted that. Previously I was shift-halting instead of just plain halting. Surprised this thread keeps popping back to the top. =) It works well. The only problem with it is that if you are in the situation where you are, for example, at N hatches and N-1 queens, that if you spam click like you describe and then issue a halt, then the N-1th queen that tries to go to the Nth hatch (that doesn't have a queen) may not actually inject her hatch. This is because if you queue the inject to the far hatch first, then the N-1th queen will do that, but the subsequent halt will wipe her entire order queue. But at this point, I like the inject motion enough that these little fix-up things aren't an issue for me as long as I know when and why they occur. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Spacebar also helps you, lower league player, to keep checking on hatcheris by pressing spacebar every now and then(like, 11 - > army, spacebar -> check larva, 11 -> army back) and that helps A LOT on macro. | ||
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
On February 02 2011 12:03 Zephirdd wrote: Just as a note, this become easy AS HELL if you change your town camera hotkey to spacebar, you barely need to move your hand. Spacebar also helps you, lower league player, to keep checking on hatcheris by pressing spacebar every now and then(like, 11 - > army, spacebar -> check larva, 11 -> army back) and that helps A LOT on macro. But..if you map it to spacebar then where do you map the "go to most recent event" function? | ||
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OpAndroid
United States84 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:40 Xanbatou wrote: But..if you map it to spacebar then where do you map the "go to most recent event" function? Changed mine to Tilde. I don't use the "Go to most recent event" much, usually only in team games when my partner is fighting something, so tilde is not too annoying. Plus yeah, with spacebar it is ridiculously fast to do the injects. | ||
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:44 OpAndroid wrote: Changed mine to Tilde. I don't use the "Go to most recent event" much, usually only in team games when my partner is fighting something, so tilde is not too annoying. Plus yeah, with spacebar it is ridiculously fast to do the injects. Well I have mine mapped to shift+spacebar, since I am pressing shift for spawning larvae anyway. But i suppose you could just map the recent event camera to tilde. I find that thing doesn't work as well as I'd like it to anyways.. Can you map tilde to 0 by any chance lol? | ||
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