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On May 14 2010 09:46 blahman3344 wrote:
hmm, i i think the nerf on roaches will go beyond just having fewer roaches on the field. Mechanics-wise, the zerg will now have to keep looking back at their food more often, and will have to make overlords more frequently.
Other than that, there might be a marauder nerf in future patches, because marauders needed to be buffed in order to fight mass roaches, but now that the roach numbers will be significantly less, marauders, in theory, should rip through roaches now. I'm not completely sure though, because if they nerf marauders for the sake of TvZ, then how will affect TvP? Personally, i haven't seen enough TvP/PvT games in order to make decent judgment on marauders in TvP.
stimed marauders + medivac totally rape roaches.. in what they needed to be buffed.. seriously?
mmm combo would always beat roaches/hydras .. you just cant be serious that marauder needed buff vs roaches... i wont even go into kitting part... they beat them standing still
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On May 14 2010 10:08 fathead wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:31 Bibdy wrote:On May 14 2010 09:29 Kyouya wrote:I dont make roaches anymore, im go from speedlings to fast lair into hydra or muta...  BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!!!! Suit yourself. Enjoy getting run over by Speedlots until you remember what Roaches are for. 4 speed lings. 2 supply. Beat 1 roach (2 supply) with 3 lings left over on average. Don't believe me? try it for your self. Also 3 lings beats one roach.
I said SpeedLOTS not SpeedLINGS.
And really...using supply as a measure of unit strength? Supply is a pacing mechanic, not a raw strength value. The Roach's stats are identical to before. They just cost a little more minerals. Roaches can still kick the crap out of Zealots.
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This zerg nerf literally is making my stomach hurt D:
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Roaches havent been getting a lot of love lately..
Roach regen nerfed
Roach movement speed nerfed
Burrow nerfed
Roach armor nerfed
Roach food nerfed
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Yeah, it's starting to get to me how every patch, protoss gets nerfed even more when it's been already weakened drastically (with good reason, however, I suppose). I am glad to see that roaches' supply has been increased, since mass roaches did tend to unfairly overwhelm at times. (Bias on my part there  )
I have mixed feeling about the forge build time increase; I'm tired of being cannon rushed (I've never done it myself...) yet I dislike having to wait those extra 15 SC2 seconds (if that's what they're called)... >~< Of course, these are somewhat obvious opinions, but I just felt like I had to voice them.
*sigh* build times for a bunch of protoss stuff being increased=TnT
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sigh for people who complain about the Forge nerf, you realize Forge FE is still strong in StarCraft II right?
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On May 14 2010 08:02 iEchoic wrote:For the people saying Terran players just have less skill: Go watch the series between DeMuslim and Nazgul. They kept switching off terran and protoss and whoever was terran lost every single game. So can you please let that incorrect and stupid argument die? Demuslim replaysTerran is behind the other two races at high levels and arguing otherwise is just denying reality.
^^^
QFT
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On May 14 2010 10:43 lFrostmourne wrote:
Roaches havent been getting a lot of love lately..
Roach regen nerfed
Roach movement speed nerfed
Burrow nerfed
Roach armor nerfed
Roach food nerfed
Did you see them one day 1 of the beta? Frightening stuff for sure..
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I hope they make some changes with the void ray, banshee,phoenix and marauder in the next patch, void rays should have less time charging up but half damage when switiching targets, banshee should have the same dps and damage but divided in more attacks because they are too powerful even if you have enough stalkers, phoenix needs to have 75 mana graviton beam, i dont know if you saw nonys game but he kills 10 marines and 8 vikings only with 8 phoenix and 2 voidrays, not only he could lift most of marines but then siege tanks and whatever he wanted. And marauder needs an hp or damage nerf they are simply too good with 20 damge vs armored, cs, stim, and can be healed for 100 25.
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If only Protoss and terran had units that were built to kill roaches we wouldn't have to have all these nerfs. Ooops.
C wut I deed der?
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On May 14 2010 10:43 Bibdy wrote:
I said SpeedLOTS not SpeedLINGS.
And really...using supply as a measure of unit strength? Supply is a pacing mechanic, not a raw strength value. The Roach's stats are identical to before. They just cost a little more minerals. Roaches can still kick the crap out of Zealots.
1 zel beats 1 roach also. And I think supply is a measure of strength, especially late game.
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On May 14 2010 06:39 UdderChaos wrote:
I wish they would just make roaches a lot smaller, like the size of lings, make their cost more than half less, dmg half, every stat more than half less, 1 food and then just bring back their fast regen but with really low hitpoints.
It just shows how little blizz understands the game that even if this is balanced you could implement the exact same balance change but with keeping the zerg's personality, instead of making them 2 food, why not just halve the cost dmg and health of the unit and keep it at 1 food.
lol, that would be cool
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I think that does it, I'm switching from Z to T. That way I get buffs every patch instead of nerfs?
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On May 14 2010 10:01 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:55 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 14 2010 09:52 Darkn3ss wrote:On May 14 2010 09:51 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 14 2010 09:31 Bibdy wrote:On May 14 2010 09:29 Kyouya wrote:I dont make roaches anymore, im go from speedlings to fast lair into hydra or muta... BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!!!! Suit yourself. Enjoy getting run over by Speedlots until you remember what Roaches are for. That's why you develop a Baneling Opening ^_^ Care to share? I never said I developed one myself XD Theres the typical baneling all in, 14 gas 13 pool drones to 15, ovie, pump lings, 22 bane nest, first 100 gas is ling speed, morph banes at 26 food, bust in. I'm sure you could adjust it to not be so all-iny, just pump more drones after 15 and add in an expo after (or before) the bane nest.
![[image loading]](http://www.liquidpoker.net/staff/Muhweli/26201fc.png)
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I was watching some of my older reps and I noticed that at 200/200 supply it wasn't uncommon for me to have 30-40 roaches. I don't think people understand just how much of a nurf this patch is to 200 supply zerg (of which was already Zerg's weakest point).
Effectively I know have 15-20 LESS ROACHES late game. With nothing to compensate for it. No ult buff no anything. So if you were getting rolled before at 200 supply you no have 15-20 less roaches to play with. Good luck.
So what to do now? Make some Colossi food. . . I mean hydra, or half the amount of roaches? At least I still have my BLs. but people will probably bitch a nurf out of them also Despite being the highest tech and one of the most expensive units in the game and are quite fragile and lacks mobility. (clealy not calling for a BL buff just letting the forums know in advance that they are already balanced before we see them a lot more then before and people start crying).
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On May 14 2010 10:52 Powda wrote:
If only Protoss and terran had units that were built to kill roaches we wouldn't have to have all these nerfs. Ooops.
C wut I deed der?
That's not the problem at all... The problem Blizzard is trying to fix is ZvZ. They said they will work on the ZvZ issue and this is what they came up with. Even in patch 11 alot of matches go Roach v Roach in ZvZ (not as much but still a lot). We will see if this trend changes or continues in patch 12.
On May 14 2010 11:03 fathead wrote:
I was watching some of my older reps and I noticed that at 200/200 supply it wasn't uncommon for me to have 30-40 roaches. I don't think people understand just how much of a nurf this patch is to 200 supply zerg (of which was already Zerg's weakest point).
Max supply zerg is the weakest point? What game are you playing?
I'll be a devil's advocate for a moment and say Zerg is the worst in battle 200v200 supply heads on. Zerg has the best mechanics for reproducing units. Zerg can resupply units so so fast, it's their strength. Zerg is most powerful when maxed, it's common sense buddy.
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Some people need to stop QQing about a minor forge nerf and be thankful that they don't play Zerg.
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On May 14 2010 11:06 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 10:52 Powda wrote:
If only Protoss and terran had units that were built to kill roaches we wouldn't have to have all these nerfs. Ooops.
C wut I deed der? That's not the problem at all... The problem Blizzard is trying to fix is ZvZ. They said they will work on the ZvZ issue and this is what they came up with. Even in patch 11 alot of matches go Roach v Roach in ZvZ (not as much but still a lot). We will see if this trend changes or continues in patch 12.
Well then I don't understand their changes. The last 4 roach nerfs made Zerglings a viable if not better strat then roaches.
Crawlers were buffed to help fight them, banes were buffed against armored and lings with +1 do about as well against roaches as they did against goons in broodwar.
I really still see no point in this nerf, even from a ZvZ perspective.
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On May 14 2010 11:06 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 10:52 Powda wrote:
If only Protoss and terran had units that were built to kill roaches we wouldn't have to have all these nerfs. Ooops.
C wut I deed der? That's not the problem at all... The problem Blizzard is trying to fix is ZvZ. They said they will work on the ZvZ issue and this is what they came up with. Even in patch 11 alot of matches go Roach v Roach in ZvZ (not as much but still a lot). We will see if this trend changes or continues in patch 12.
The thing that bugs the living shit out of me is that the previous nerfs already made other strategy options available for zvz, are they somehow trying to remove roaches from zvz altogether or something? I mean having roaches as ONE option is reasonable. With the current rate, the only thing you'll be seeing in ZvZ is mutaling or some shit which does sound awfully familiar. Obviously banes are a viable option to the ling wars which does deviate the strategy slightly from StarCraft: Brood war, but we don't want this to be the same game ffs.
And yeah, I think the greatest impact will be in late game zvp (and maybe somewhat early too since this is oughta make defending and countering some zealot pushes a bit harder).
There wasn't a zerg dominance in top 10 of BW either - I suppose this is a trend they intend on maintaining.
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i think the forge is pretty upset that they didnt nerf assililator too :p
nice picture Muhweli )
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EPT
