EPTZerg have lost the ability to adapt early game into what they need to be doing. Protoss FE and Terran Marine/Tank combo are now seem to be tough to deal with because your roaches are slowed down in coming out.
Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 58
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United States7542 Posts
Zerg have lost the ability to adapt early game into what they need to be doing. Protoss FE and Terran Marine/Tank combo are now seem to be tough to deal with because your roaches are slowed down in coming out. | ||
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
also..roach is pretty much the only unit capable of denting a wall in early. how is zerg supposed to do ANYTHING about that wall before later tech, at which time theyre too late to see anything going on? and hell if you tell us to sac an ovie...ones we need extra of to afford roaches in the first place. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
Marauders are able to handle pretty much anything on the ground. With some tank support, it's just too easy. | ||
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Muhweli
Finland5328 Posts
I do think tho that as far as late game goes, if there's one thing zerg can do to not get anally ravaged by protoss in 200/200 fights (by rebuilding fast) and you take that shit out, it is a big deal. The example was going from 200 to 50 supplies and rebuilding 50 roaches in which case it wouldn't matter like it was stated out, but in the 200/200 games, the zerg is fairly likely to have more drones anyway, thus reducing the maximum core size of a zerg army, which is yet decreased with the increased roach cost. If zerg gets whooped in 200/200 battle (as it's prolly oughta), he can still rebuild his army rather fast, rite? But if the original army was already considerably smaller because of the roach taking up huge amount of supplies, the zerg gets raped even harder - which in turn means the protoss will have a buttload of more troops. Having buttload more troops means that even if zerg is able to produce out 50 roaches or whatnot instantly, the protoss force is considerably larger, even if the zerg ain't maxed out. Even with just 20 roaches, the lategame zerg army is 20 roaches shorter than it was before. How is that not a huge difference? I don't mean roach needs to be the only unit for this though, obviously their upcoming buffs and changes to ultras might be able to make up for the lack of roach capabilities. Just sucks that they didn't do that in the same patch. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:32 -orb- wrote: I heard a 14% nerf completely changed zerg so much that you completely lack the ability to hold off any kind of early game attack. But I guess the 44% nerf to storm was fine? You people are overreacting and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about As much as I generally dislike orb's commentary on patch changes, I would have to agree that this is absolutely true. Even top level zerg players (zelniq, for example) have been saying that this is probably a step in the right direction for balance. The balance changes some people have been proposing as an alternative are so incredibly bad I don't see how you can actually think they're good. For example, people saying we should just halve everything about the roach and make it one supply. Do you guys not realize that that would be such a huge nerf to zerg that they'd pretty much be completely crippled? | ||
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
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United States7542 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:48 fuzzehbunneh wrote: Im still wondering how zerg is going to manage to teh to ultras fast enough to be viable. does no one realize how much of a huge investment that is? its ridiculous to hear that the solution to roach nerf is now go ultras, where before even mentioning the ultra name drew laughs Yeah I love that reasoning... "To make up for reduced effectiveness in the unit that got you to tier 3, make a tier 3 unit" If I hit tier 3 the roach change doesn't really matter lol, I can just make broodlords. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + *Cough* Marauders *Cough* Obviously underpowered and wont ever be used again in any builds. *rolleyes* | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
I mean really, saying Zerg is a mess is an understatement. | ||
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:52 Fruscainte wrote: Wait, Roaches become a 2 supply unit, relatively low cost, highly effective against pretty much all ground units, has no AA whatsoever, and is an integral part of almost every army setup? Where have I seen this before? + Show Spoiler + *Cough* Marauders *Cough* Obviously underpowered and wont ever be used again in any builds. *rolleyes* roaches dont get stim or concussion shells | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:52 Fruscainte wrote: Wait, Roaches become a 2 supply unit, relatively low cost, highly effective against pretty much all ground units, has no AA whatsoever, and is an integral part of almost every army setup? Where have I seen this before? + Show Spoiler + *Cough* Marauders *Cough* Obviously underpowered and wont ever be used again in any builds. *rolleyes* You're actually comparing Roaches to Marauders? lol.. | ||
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Therapist
United States97 Posts
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:55 fuzzehbunneh wrote: roaches dont get stim or concussion shells or bonus dmg to armored! | ||
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Ampere
United States27 Posts
On May 14 2010 11:48 fuzzehbunneh wrote: Im still wondering how zerg is going to manage to teh to ultras fast enough to be viable. does no one realize how much of a huge investment that is? its ridiculous to hear that the solution to roach nerf is now go ultras, where before even mentioning the ultra name drew laughs That didn't make any sense at all. | ||
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
the* better? | ||
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Ampere
United States27 Posts
Roaches are cheaper than Marauders and Stalkers, have several upgrades to make them more powerful (Burrow + moving while burrowed + increased speed + increased HP regen). They have Burrow + Move for a reason. Use it. | ||
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Ampere
United States27 Posts
No, I mean, try teching to ultralisks instead of roaches and see what happens. Then switch back to roaches, and again, see what happens. My guess is that the food cost increase is only a slight hindrance to a good zerg player doing a roach build. | ||
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