• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:40
CET 23:40
KST 07:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC28[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion HELPls! The old replay video w full HD resolution List of top players active on ShieldBattery Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc Nintendo Switch Thread List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11664 users

Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 79 Next
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:26:18
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#581
On May 14 2010 04:15 Zelniq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote:
NEW TVZ:

-Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot.
-Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball.
-???
-Collect win.

wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish



Yup. But then the hellions rolls in.
As some terran player said, mariokart to victory.
Failsafe
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States1298 Posts
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#582
From an aesthetics standpoint, reducing the Thor's size is an excellent move. Hopefully they'll consider a similar change for the Colossus. I recognize that the Colossus model appearing tall is suitable for it being shot by anti-air stuff, but it looks so horrible.

The Roach nerf is probably okay but it's should be a single step in the process of revamping Zerg to make it more interesting.
MrBitter: Phoenixes... They're like flying hellions. Always cost efficient.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:28:45
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#583
On May 14 2010 03:31 Xinliben wrote:
I would be ok with this roach nerf if burrow was made more desirable to get. If I have less roaches at least let me do cool things with them. Zerg should get burrow every game, it just seems...zerg like. With it, in the late game, these smaller amounts of roaches could turn into more of a special ops ambush unit, allowing good surrounds on blobs of units, while soon-to-be-buffed ultras are the main tanks.


Got to agree with this . Even if burrow is somewhat expensive i can't see myself using the roaches without burrow anymore . As Zelniq has mentioned i have to rethink my ZvP strategies , because Roach/infestor middle game was my strongest army composition against toss .
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#584
Switching to protoss.
Rantech
Profile Joined April 2010
Chile527 Posts
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#585
oh, this is gonna be huge, roach to 2 supplys, omg, i predict the rage nerd at the battle.net forums starting right now.

Anyway we'll have to wait and see how it turns, but i dont think that was really necessary.
Poor IdrA...
Shrine
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia107 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:27:11
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#586
On May 14 2010 03:43 TSL-Lore wrote:
Making the roach 2 food is completely the wrong direction and shows that Blizzard has pigeon-holed themselves into non-creative and un-fun changes with no regard for the flavor of the race. By making the roach 2 food, they're completely destroying the philosophy of "quantity over quality" that zerg users knew and fell in love with. The change is a lazy one.




Exactly the reason i LOVE protoss, meant to be the high cost but really good units ( advanced race after all ) and i always pictured the zerg as small cost large mass armies that reminded me of starship troppers 1 with the compound being overrun.
Hell is empty, All the devils are here.
lynx.oblige
Profile Joined August 2009
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:27:21
May 13 2010 19:26 GMT
#587
On May 14 2010 04:26 Lollersauce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:15 Zelniq wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote:
NEW TVZ:

-Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot.
-Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball.
-???
-Collect win.

wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish



Yup. But then the hellions rolls in.
As some terran player said, mariokart to victory.


lol? Lings with speed are faster than hellions on creep (I think slightly faster off creep too). Hellions also can't kill Queens in any timely manner, so...
Everyone needs a nemesis.
CubE.
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada39 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#588
On May 14 2010 04:24 Azarkon wrote:
IdrA: well done Blizzard



More seriously:

There is a good chance that they put the roach change in to gauge how Zerg strategies would evolve before buffing ultralisks. They waited quite a while to do so - even though players were complaining about roaches being food 1 since day one of Beta - implying that they were holding out to see how the match-ups would evolve. Apparently, it has not evolved to their satisfaction, so they decided to go ahead and make a huge change and see which units come to fore now that Zerg don't have roaches to fall back on. This is Beta, after all, so they have every reason to use us as guinea pigs.

My predictions: hydralisks are a natural "replacement" for roaches and have been used successfully as a mainstay unit since the very beginning. Their weakness against units like colossi, high templars, and mass marines/tanks/thors, however, means that they will likely have to be supplemented by other units in order to stay competitive. Roaches are still a viable supplement - by no means a "trash" unit - but now ultras, zerglings, and banelings will probably get used a lot more, which I think is what Blizzard wanted to see as well. Another possibility is that people would switch to speedling/muta builds, which has already happened in high-level ZvZ,. This will likely lead to a phoenix response from Protoss and even more marine+thor+hellion usage from Terran. Either way, I don't think roaches will play as a big of a role in late-game Zerg armies as before due to the 2 food change, because with Zerg already losing 200/200 battles to well-composed Terran and Protoss armies, halving the number of roaches is probably going to lead to slaughter.


For the cost of 2 supply I feel that roach are a trash unit. They are simply not as good as a marauder, no where near an immortal and hell blink stalkers will now THRASH roaches. As it stands now regular stalkers probably will put up a pretty good fight.
zul
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany5427 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:29:17
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#589
the supply change from 1 to 2 is not doing much when you reinforce your army after the initial attack started, BUT when you face a turteling enemy and the fight wont start before both are on 200/200 the zerg will have a significant disadvantage from now on. i am curious to see what this is going to change in the next days and weeks.
keep it deep! @zulison
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#590
On May 14 2010 04:22 orgon wrote:
Terrans are seriously are the toughest race now. I think I'll switch over the next reset.

Good luck with that. I switched from Terran to Zerg after I realized how powerful Zerg macro is and lo and behold, I went up two ranks! :D
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
Crissaegrim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
2947 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#591
Dont forget people, that the race to be in the spotlight in the first game are the terrans. Should be plenty to justify why terrans need as much buffs as they can while zerg and tosses...well who needs em! Together we will fly on the wings of liberty *wink wink*. On another note, Browder just told me that the game will only really be balanced once the zerg and toss expansions come out. So no worries people, its just BETA.

+ Show Spoiler +
I hope you know im joking.
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#592
On May 14 2010 04:26 Lollersauce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:15 Zelniq wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote:
NEW TVZ:

-Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot.
-Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball.
-???
-Collect win.

wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish



Yup. But then the hellions rolls in.
As some terran player said, mariokart to victory.


Micromanaged Speedlings annihilate Hellions unless you have some critical mass of Hellions, which is pretty rare
graphene
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland211 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#593
i wouldnt be surprised if idra went to blizzard entertainment and goes rambo, cauz i already couldnt beat mech + marauder and colosuus sentry. and this crap!!!!!!!
cloud computing is the future
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
May 13 2010 19:27 GMT
#594
On May 14 2010 04:26 lynx.oblige wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:26 Lollersauce wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:15 Zelniq wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote:
NEW TVZ:

-Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot.
-Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball.
-???
-Collect win.

wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish



Yup. But then the hellions rolls in.
As some terran player said, mariokart to victory.


lol? Lings with speed are faster than hellions on creep (I think slightly faster off creep too). Hellions also can't kill Queens in any timely manner, so...


Yes, lings are a great counter to hellions. If there's just two of them.
MinoMino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1103 Posts
May 13 2010 19:28 GMT
#595
Thors used to be badass, now they're this cute little robot . Pretty significant change for Zerg with the roaches there. Poor Zerg users, they get no love. I wasn't expecting the forge nerf, so I was a bit surprised. I guess it was the cannon rushes? I never really felt like they needed a change, but I guess I might be wrong.
Blah.
ghen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1356 Posts
May 13 2010 19:28 GMT
#596
btw, vortex forcefield was nerfed due to this:

NokCha
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)410 Posts
May 13 2010 19:28 GMT
#597
On May 14 2010 04:22 HeyheyLBJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:05 ShinSa.NokCha wrote:
The game is still in beta for christ sake~ Why is everyone screaming about imbalanced? Every game goes through changes in their beta stages to help balance the game before the OFFICIAL release.

Nothing is permanent why can't you guys just enjoy the game and discover lots of new build orders or strategies rather than hug roaches~ :\ I've encountered so many roach rushes, i don't even bother scouting zerg half the time. Its more fun when i actually have to read my opponent~


Yeah it's a beta so clearly we shouldn't be discussing anything that has to do with the game. I mean, that's what official releases are for!


I'm just saying that i see more whining rather than adapting :\ This encourages players to try new things.
TSL-Lore
Profile Joined January 2009
United States412 Posts
May 13 2010 19:28 GMT
#598
On May 14 2010 04:22 Jusciax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:43 TSL-Lore wrote:
Making the roach 2 food is completely the wrong direction and shows that Blizzard has pigeon-holed themselves into non-creative and un-fun changes with no regard for the flavor of the race. By making the roach 2 food, they're completely destroying the philosophy of "quantity over quality" that zerg users knew and fell in love with. The change is a lazy one.

Some people in this thread have voted to "increase the power of the roach to match its 2 psi requirement" but this is the wrong way about it as well. What kind of tier 1 zerg unit costs 2 food? It doesn't fit, damnit. the roach "vehicle design" was wrong to begin with. The entire point of the macro mechanics of the zerg race was to be able to produce weaker units, but at a much higher production rate than any other race. The hatchery/larvae injection mechanic is designed for this. The roach may or may not need a nerf, but the nerf should come in making the unit itself weaker and/or faster... not make it bulkier and cost more (that is the way of the protoss).

I hate this change, not because it is a nerf, but because it is not Zerg.

Very true, sir. Completely agree.


I'm pretty convinced that Blizzard is full of idiots now. They seem incapable of creative thinking. They're using quick bandage patch changes to address balance issues with blatant disregard to the philosophy of each race. This reminds me of the shit-mill that is world of warcraft arena, where they string along stupid, un-creative patches to fix something.

Blizzard, a company that I whole-heartedly stood behind, a company that I felt was the shining beacon, has now fallen in my eyes. Honestly, i think the problem is that after WoW, the company filled itself with money-grubbing fools who have gotten way too fat and filled their brains with too much lard to come up with creative ideas.
I want to become stronger. -Shindou Hikaru
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
May 13 2010 19:28 GMT
#599
On May 14 2010 04:27 theqat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:26 Lollersauce wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:15 Zelniq wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote:
NEW TVZ:

-Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot.
-Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball.
-???
-Collect win.

wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish



Yup. But then the hellions rolls in.
As some terran player said, mariokart to victory.


Micromanaged Speedlings annihilate Hellions unless you have some critical mass of Hellions, which is pretty rare


Gonna be a lot more common now that roaches cost extra minerals and larva.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:33:18
May 13 2010 19:29 GMT
#600
Wow. I like how flowers are knee high on the new thor :p

[image loading]
[image loading]




They really need to make the cockpit larger.


http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 79 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
07:00
Best Games of SC
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Solar
SHIN vs TBD
PiGStarcraft321
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft321
elazer 217
Nathanias 71
EmSc Tv 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Pusan 73
Terrorterran 26
LuMiX 1
Counter-Strike
allub415
jkaem153
Other Games
summit1g5771
tarik_tv5767
Grubby2313
Liquid`Hasu237
syndereN159
XaKoH 153
C9.Mang0148
PPMD23
Chillindude17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1561
BasetradeTV130
StarCraft 2
angryscii 37
EmSc Tv 20
EmSc2Tv 20
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 93
• StrangeGG 28
• Reevou 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1183
Other Games
• imaqtpie1101
• Shiphtur383
Upcoming Events
OSC
50m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
11h 20m
WardiTV Invitational
13h 20m
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
18h 20m
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
21h 20m
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 13h
IPSL
1d 18h
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
1d 21h
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
SOOP
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.