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On May 13 2010 22:25 Skvid wrote:
Mutalisks would be imbalanced if they stacked because there is no limit on how many units you can have in 1 control group.
Hellions would be imbalanced because they would deal just too many damage without letting zerg to get a surround. They would just wreak havoc vs light unit if they didn't stopped to shoot.
I cant say much against pheonixes, their current state in the game (after last patch) is a bit silly, so i guess they are better in your build.
Tanks would be imbalanced vs things like roaches if they could shoot and move like that.
So yea... while it might seem cool it doesn't help the game out imo ;/
Let me address that one point at a time
- If you group your air units in a stack, a few AA splash damage units, such as thors, can one shot the stack. It just raises the stakes effectively.
- Vultures weren't imbalanced in SC1, I don't know how you're getting that they'd be imbalanced in 2
- Same pros and cons apply to phoenixes as to mutalisks
- Uh oh roaches don't hard counter something. In all seriousness though, it just adds another level, you can get a shot off if the tank comes in range but you can't just chase it down. In other words, using a tank like that to harass vs roaches doesn't REQUIRE suiciding the tank as it currently does
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Stacked units? That wont work because you can stack 48 mutas and just snipe a command center.
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Why can't you just get a cloud of 48 mutas now and do the same thing...?
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Why the fuck would you let Zerg get 48 mutas without rolling their ground army?!
You ought to get a Thor or two if you're smelling mass mutas anyway.
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On May 13 2010 22:29 potatomash3r wrote:
Stacked units? That wont work because you can stack 48 mutas and just snipe a command center.
LOL? just look like 1 post above you..... -.-°
stacking Units with unlimited control-groups won't be a problem AT ALL - I don't know why you'd think otherwise... You have splash-dmg for sth, right?
At least, splash-DMg against Air would actually do anything, not like now, where you spread out your Mutas anyways and splash only hit's like 1-2 additional ones... With stacked Mutas, you'd hit EVERY SINGLE UNIT with one attack - how's that for a counter to staced-mutas?
Really think before u post...
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But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
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On May 13 2010 22:32 encryptedamf wrote:
But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
How is it easier?
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Its a joke guys, geez dont get your panties in a bunch.
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On May 13 2010 22:32 encryptedamf wrote:
But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
With all due respect, I don't think you make any sense. If this requires more APM to do, then it makes the game harder. It's gonna be exponentially harder in a real game when multitasking is required. I have no idea how you're drawing your conclusions really
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On May 13 2010 22:33 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 22:32 encryptedamf wrote:
But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
How is it easier?
I really want to know how difficult it is too, because the two most important things about this kind of micro are:
- It has to be effective
- It has to be micro-intensive
Just with the VoD's, I can't really see how difficult it is, though I think it looks pretty damn good so far!
It's amazing that sm1 that isn't an SC1-Pro or Blizzard developer actually understands what has to be done with SC1 - Blizzard just needs guys like you! At least, we can all look forward to a promod or sth like that, if blizz really F's up SC2.
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On May 13 2010 22:32 encryptedamf wrote:
But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
It was amazing because pros had to MULTITASK while microing. That's why it's hard. Macro is easy in BW, you can perfect it with practice. Micro is easy in BW, you can perfect it with practice. When you put them together that's when it gets really Difficult.
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On May 13 2010 22:36 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 22:33 lolaloc wrote:On May 13 2010 22:32 encryptedamf wrote:
But when that thread was up " Micro where art thou" it talked about the micro was a challenge to overcome. When you saw the pros doing it, it was amasing because it was hard to achieve, this is just kiting, which anyone can achieve that hellion micro in this thread lol, so really this is just catering to the whiners, just like everygame does now a days. IMO this isnt making the game better, is just making it easier.
How is it easier? I really want to know how difficult it is too, because the two most important things about this kind of micro are: - It has to be effective - It has to be micro-intensive
After trying out the mutalisk map, the collision values just needs adjustment so that the stacking is NOT effortless.
For the tank thing, it's just identical to SC1. You press Hold Position at the correct timing.
Same for the hellions. Just identical to SC1 vultures.
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Even though this would not be balanced at all, all the units look so much more responsive.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
At least the tank one HAS to be implemented. Why would the tanks even have turrets if they can't shoot like that?
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i really liked that tank micro. u can do like that now but u basically just removed the cast time of the attack ye?
i disliked the hellion micro alot because that is easier than it is in the current patch. u can just attack without thinking of the timing
the muta stack and phonix stack i dont really like because they turn around 180 degrees instantly. they attack as soon as something in range and all and all its about 5 times easier than real muta micro
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yes it will make more APM, I understand that, and then yes it will make it harder overall see.blue, but the micro required to do this is not hard to acomplish because all it is, is kiting. And when i was talking about the older thread, everyone in there was talking about the micro in BW was harder to pull off, making it so when they were multitasking, marcoing n shit, they were also doing some intense micro that alot of people could do successfully. yes your point is right, but anyone that cant pull off then APM and full of the easy micro aswell
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if stacking would be problem you can always increase collision number
but the whole idea of moving shot is solved so much better than this what blizzard gave us in patch 11
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On May 13 2010 22:40 MorroW wrote:
i really liked that tank micro. u can do like that now but u basically just removed the cast time of the attack ye?
The problem was the turret would return every time you move the tank. In this one the turret stays, thus removing most of the delay. After that, you go find some variables and kill more delay.
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I think the tank micro is a bit too much, in sc1 at least the fire rate was much lower. And by doing that roaches would get owned so badly.
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On May 13 2010 22:42 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 22:40 MorroW wrote:
i really liked that tank micro. u can do like that now but u basically just removed the cast time of the attack ye? The problem was the turret would return every time you move the tank. In this one the turret stays, thus removing most of the delay. After that, you go find some variables and kill more delay.
but how do u make it turn back? will a simple stop click or attack move put the turret back to normal or what?
i liked the micro but i want it to act normal in some battlefields
cant u just make so the tank autolooks at the closest target like it was in sc1?
if tanks could do this u would have to add more cooldown to them and add at least a small cast time because if they can move while attack without any loss its just lol. even vultures when using patrol micro lost some speed and the tank had to stand still for a short while
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EPT
