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On May 12 2010 04:41 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:32 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent I'm not asking you to roll over for me. I'm askign you to roll over for the OP and stop trolling his thread. Yea, I'm no veteran (read: less than 1k post) and not well-known, but the OP sure as hell is. Respect that or gtfo. ive always had great respect for incontrol i always watched him haypro and mondragon reps once upon a time doesnt mean im not going to throw in my opinion about a sc2 gaming camp and how it will be perceived (currently) because i respect the op doesnt mean im going to pretend i like this idea
You dont' have to pretend to like the idea. But you don't have to flame or troll either.
Re-read your first post in this thread and tell me that wasn't disrespectful.
And btw, I never told you to go back to gg.net or any of that shit; that was someone else. I just told you to show more respect or gtfo + Show Spoiler +.
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On May 12 2010 05:02 Kizu wrote:
how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
Then why the hell are you posting here? Shouldn't you not be wasting your time reading about SC2 and using your valuable free time playing and practicing the game? I'm sure the only reason the elite level players are elite is because they put in 5x more games than the average Silver player.
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On May 12 2010 04:28 Ballistixz wrote:
but gullible ppl will always be gullible. go enter one of the many SC2 tournaments they have running and try to figure out your chances of even getting in even the semi finals of said tournament. once you do that figure out the chances of you getting to the semi finals or finals for each tournament after that.
Did it ever occur to you that people pay professionals and tutors to actually TEACH them basic and advanced strategies (whether it's in academia or sports or other hobbies) because of a genuine interest in something... NOT because they think they'll make a future career out of it?
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I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
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You'd probably gain a lot more applicants and attention if you open a camp in SoCal in the future =O Asian central.
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On May 12 2010 05:02 Kizu wrote:
how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
You obviously have -1 understanding of what actually makes a player good at RTS :D
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
That's nonsense. So much of the value of lessons is the interactivity and being taught actual mechanics. You don't get that watching podcasts, no matter how amusing and entertaining they may be.
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
I agree 100%
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On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills.
yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know
i didnt say I would make fun of these people and not give the respect to players coming out of this camp
I was trying to say I predict and foresee others doing this
its a regularly occurring human response
people get an ego boost for having the "i did it myself, you dont deserve what i busted my ass for" attitude
I can foresee somebody, who wins/loses against somebody who may become good from this camp, saying somethin sarcastic and idra-like
"congrats, go back to gosu coaching training camp"
and sports are far different from starcraft
+ Show Spoiler +if you develop poor technique at an early age, it becomes muscle memory
example: low release point for a quarter back, slow release
low release point for a basketball shooter
poor dribbling, poor layup technique, poor tackling technique
all the fundamentals need to be learned at an early age
and advanced coaching comes down to advanced mistakes that you may know are mistakes
but only a reputable coach would be able to spot it
example: not a consistent arm slot for a pitcher
camps also help you get stronger and faster through repeated drills
sports are based on physical technique and physical strength
e-sports are based on finger/hand speed + intellect/experience, not something you can make immediate improvements on IMO
is somebody playing zerg going to work on his 1a2a3a 4sh 5sh technique?
sports are played in real life
e-sports are played on the internet
everything can be analyzed through replays
thats just my opinion, not flaming anybody else
User was warned for this post
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
well said
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Damn why is everyone hating on these guys. The benefit of one-on-one coaching is they can tell you exactly what YOU are doing wrong. Day[9] and other in-depth commentators like that tell you what THEY did wrong. Sure they may be one in the same but there is no replacement for individual coaching. It's like learning the guitar. There are tons and tons of resources online, tons and tons of tutorials online. I guarantee you you'll learn the guitar faster with a real instructor personally.
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On May 12 2010 05:29 Kuo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I agree 100%
Well, isnt this their first camp? I guess we can just allow them to prove us wrong. Instead of debating, why don't we just see if this is a success or not? They are not bringing 200 people to camp, he clearly said 8 people out of the whooolleeeeee TL community.
so it might be desastrous for the 8 people, or it could be a success. Let the camp go on and i think we should all comment AFTER. However, if it worked for Halo and other games AND in korea. I am pretty sure those who applied are aware that they will not turn pro or probably don,t have the intention to turn professional sc2 player (if you are in bronze and aren't even good enough to learn yourself then you know you will never be a pro sc2 player). However, I am sure this camp is to entertain, show the basics and just HAVE FUN.
People pay for golf lessons to have a good swing. THey don't want to turn pro, but it is their hobby and they would enjoy more if they were good/better at it. this can be compared to sooo many other camps i dont see why you guys are all complaining about
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On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one
You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity.
And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries.
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On May 12 2010 05:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity. And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries.
reading comprehension? i detected some serious sarcasm, seeing as how over the top your response was
Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER . ^--sarcasm
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billyX333 wrote:
thats where you and me differ
i give respect to everybody
you dont earn respect from me, you lose it
..seriously, imagine if a pro gamer had made the comments i did, you wouldnt be speaking
thats whats sad about you, your ego, and your personality
you only show your true colors when you think you're of greater stature
::clap, clap, Clap, Clap, CLAP, CLAP::
That sums up the problem with the Starcraft gaming community pretty succinctly. But I guess it's a natural progression as you basically take the most ridiculed portion of society (nerds) and give them a structure onto themselves (Starcraft skill). It's only natural that the top players, and by extension the people that are friends with them, to act elitist and angry as it is basically an escape to an area where they are finally the top and not the bottom. It's also only natural that the nerds who are still at the bottom of yet another totem poll would want to gain rep and skill by doing this camp.
And by the way, everyone who has a hardon for post count is an idiot...anyone can spam posts. Rule #6 is pretty stupid also. Respect veterans? These veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers like everybody else (with extensive and obvious exceptions), this need not be a rule if mods do a good job. Take a look at SomethingAwful forum rules, they are far superior. The number of posts from people who do not read the entire thread, just flat agree with the first well known person to post, or flat troll the OP is out of control. Useless, low content posts should be banned with impunity. Posts from people who are asking the same question answered 30 times in a thread should be banned. Telling someone to stfu because you have more posts than them should result in a ban. I agree with people saying they don't want to read an entire 45 page thread to find one answer but if you stick to those rules the threads will be much shorter because you get rid of the bullshit.
With those rules in place we would have a 10 page thread on our hands and I still would never have heard of iCCup.Diamond (but props for everything you've done for the community LOL).
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On May 12 2010 05:47 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity. And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries. reading comprehension? i detected some serious sarcasm, seeing as how over the top your response was
Still not sarcasm: Learning on your own + Professional help >>> Learning on your own.
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wow this sounds perfect!!! Too bad I'm located in central Minnesota 
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Learning on your own is definitely better, but I know a lot of people that don't understand how to learn on their own. Teaching the pups at GosuCamp how to learn from their own replays and mistakes should probably be something discussed. I think the biggest problem that gold or lower players have is they don't know how to look at high level replays and assess their own problems correctly.
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Why are SCII Lessons worthwhile?
-Starcraft II is a hobby
-People enjoy hobbies and want to improve at them so they can enjoy them more
-Camps and lessons help people improve
-People spend money to go to camps and lessons (money is just an approximation of how much something is valued anyway, people value different things differently, some people spend millions on art, no one is trying to convince them that they are being scammed)
-People enjoy camps and lessons
-And thus the world is good
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I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield.
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EPT
