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On May 12 2010 06:18 OPSavioR wrote:
I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield.
I'm sure it will depend upon each individual's specific level, and I doubt they want to give away too much information ;-)
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On May 12 2010 06:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:18 OPSavioR wrote:
I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield. I'm sure it will depend upon each individual's specific level, and I doubt they want to give away too much information ;-)
There isn't really that many "secret things" to do to gain a large advantage, there's plenty of obvious things that most people know about but ignore due to either lack of mechanics or laziness.
edit: the camp is about personally seeing and interacting with top players, learning about the game, developing mechanics (I'm sure there will be some kind of training exercises specifically for certain parts of your game eg. macro challenge), timing ( the number two thing people lack), and having loads of fun and a memorable experience.
I don't think they have many "secrets" that you couldn't just google or look for on TL, but I think right now the experience is well worth it if not under priced.
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We had no intention of driving people away with the price at 250$. For those people who think the price is unreasonable I don't think you understand what all go's into making this camp happen. With the cost's of tables, chairs, food, electricity, water, a new switch, also paying for iNcontrol's flight out here I think that the cost is very reasonable. We are also planning on saving some of the money from each camp to slowly purchase new computers so eventually it will not be a bring your own computer event. Then all you guys would have to pay after entrance fee is just the travel. I honestly went into this with NO intention for ripping people off, we are just looking to make a little money doing the things that we love to do. We put out a basic schedule so that everyone has an idea of what they are getting themselves into. For the people who are highly skeptical I just recommend waiting. Their will be video of the event, we wont be hiding anything. We started gosucoaching a couple months ago and I just started thinking to myself, "hey this coaching is going so well, what if we were able to coach people in person?" We have what no one else in the US has at the moment, a house full of dedicated starcraft 2 nerd's with no life who would not mind having people come over to coach. Yes people can learn through online lessons, but their are a couple more advantages to offline coaching that online cannot offer. For three days everyone will be fully submerged in a house of dedicated starcraft 2 players. Even through three days of practice and the ability to converse and analyze in person some of the best starcraft 2 player's that the game has to offer at the moment should be enough to satisfy most people. We just hope you guys enjoy it, and hopefully we will have many more in the future.
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I know everyone has to earn an income, but i don't like the way this is going.
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On May 12 2010 06:29 Brad wrote:
I know everyone has to earn an income, but i don't like the way this is going.
Towards high level players being able to earn an income using the same skills that they practice so hard on? That's a horrible future, we wouldn't want that. Then the players might practice more and be even better! Let's put an end to this.
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On May 12 2010 06:29 Machine[USA] wrote:
We had no intention of driving people away with the price at 250$. For those people who think the price is unreasonable I don't think you understand what all go's into making this camp happen.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried giving private lessons for StarCraft? I assume it's not too different than math or tennis tutoring, and you could make $50-100 per hour if you advertise properly and word gets out that you know your shit. (What's the cost of GosuCoaching?) Quite frankly, everyone here who isn't bashing you guys for doing this, thinks that $250 is amazingly cheap. Food for thought next time around, since you guys are dedicating more than 15 hours of hardcore tutoring (not to mention room and board and food and everything else), which means you're really charging like... less than 20 bucks per hour of focused improvement. I suppose it was just to test to the waters.
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Would sign up if i was in the area.
Pricing is kind of cheap, considering you are supplying meals. It sucks that people have to bring their own computer though, that makes this tough.
Really though, people are paying like 10$ an hour of actual coaching here, which is a great price for private coaching. Especially considering it's a what, 2:1 student:coach ratio?
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i dont see why some ppl r against this. seems like a totally legit and awesome idea. these guys has been coaching for quite a while now and its legit and most ppl seem to end up thinking it was worth the money, so its not some scam... go if u wanna go stay if u think its too expensive. gosucoaching.com is a great example of ppl making esports bigger and better
my personal opinion on this is if u wanna become a top player and is not very good atm. then just play and u will learn, thats how everyone else did. and if u dont have time to become a great player on ur own then u wont keep on high level as the new patches and new strats come and when the overall bar gets higher u cant keep up unless u keep paying ppl money to make u better. but if u just wanna learn more about the game and not become a hardcore gamer i think this sounds like a perfect deal
i might start teaching for money too but i think im too bad for that xd its rly fun tho
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Everyone trolling this thread - please stop, people making money off of teaching others how to improve on a hobby is not the first time in history. BELIEVE IT OR NOT !
Sure you can use the argument that its only a beta, but these guys are still very experienced rts players and know what it takes to become a good player.
Remember that you're paying for more than the actual lessons as shown - food, place to stay etc, but last but not least the experience.
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honestly 250 is nothing for 3 days of training, especially with the hours you're putting in. I'm sure many will be trying to attend this.
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On May 12 2010 02:43 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it Edit because I fail at quotes. He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond... Back on topic. I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part).
your honestly going to argue with an iccup admin? Get Out.
edit: and dont bring my post count into this, im a lurker not a poster. besides 69 > all
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tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha...
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On May 12 2010 06:52 Sky.Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:43 Kralic wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it Edit because I fail at quotes. He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond... Back on topic. I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part). your honestly going to argue with an iccup admin? Get Out.
Nice contribution to the thread. I was stating a fact that the person who he claimed was not a forum vet had actually made his account before Diamond made his. I do not know how that is arguing. I have not hurt Diamonds feelings(well that shouldn't have) I did not call Diamond anything bad... So I don't get why you are so hurt over the fact I stated.
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On May 12 2010 05:47 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +billyX333 wrote:
thats where you and me differ
i give respect to everybody
you dont earn respect from me, you lose it
..seriously, imagine if a pro gamer had made the comments i did, you wouldnt be speaking
thats whats sad about you, your ego, and your personality
you only show your true colors when you think you're of greater stature
::clap, clap, Clap, Clap, CLAP, CLAP:: That sums up the problem with the Starcraft gaming community pretty succinctly. But I guess it's a natural progression as you basically take the most ridiculed portion of society (nerds) and give them a structure onto themselves (Starcraft skill). It's only natural that the top players, and by extension the people that are friends with them, to act elitist and angry as it is basically an escape to an area where they are finally the top and not the bottom. It's also only natural that the nerds who are still at the bottom of yet another totem poll would want to gain rep and skill by doing this camp. And by the way, everyone who has a hardon for post count is an idiot...anyone can spam posts. Rule #6 is pretty stupid also. Respect veterans? These veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers like everybody else (with extensive and obvious exceptions), this need not be a rule if mods do a good job. Take a look at SomethingAwful forum rules, they are far superior. The number of posts from people who do not read the entire thread, just flat agree with the first well known person to post, or flat troll the OP is out of control. Useless, low content posts should be banned with impunity. Posts from people who are asking the same question answered 30 times in a thread should be banned. Telling someone to stfu because you have more posts than them should result in a ban. I agree with people saying they don't want to read an entire 45 page thread to find one answer but if you stick to those rules the threads will be much shorter because you get rid of the bullshit. With those rules in place we would have a 10 page thread on our hands and I still would never have heard of iCCup.Diamond (but props for everything you've done for the community LOL).
If you don't like the idea of post count being important then you're at the wrong site. If you think the forum veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers and you don't like the idea of respecting them you're at the wrong site. If you think the rules at SomethingAwful are superior, you're at the wrong site. If you think you know who deserves to be banned and you're not a mod you're at the wrong site. If you don't like the elitist totem pole that is TL then you're at the wrong site.
Yes, you can spam posts, but it's highly unlikely that someone's going to spam up 1k post and not have ever posted anything worthwhile.
Bottom line: If you don't like the rules then YOU'RE AT THE WRONG SITE.
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On May 12 2010 06:31 stormtemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent Look, your on TL.net right now, and my friend, Lzgamer, Iccup.diamond, And another guy with more posts than you told you to quit it. Its not your job to decide what does or doesn't go round these here parts. So shut up.
sorry i didn't realize i was posting in the wild wild west, sheriff
wont happen again
and what are you insisting i quit, again?
am i not allowed the same respect solely because of post count? disagreeing and debate not allowed round these parts? 
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Calgary25991 Posts
On May 12 2010 06:54 NightOne wrote:
tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha...
If they played it right, started an LLC, claimed the trip as a shareholders' meeting, charged and paid tax on the $250 and claimed the expenses as business expenses they probably would come out farther ahead than not declaring the income. Especially since you could make the case that the house, and hence the majority of the rent and utilities, were for the business.
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate.
Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell.
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On May 12 2010 07:00 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:54 NightOne wrote:
tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha... If they played it right, started an LLC, claimed the trip as a shareholders' meeting, charged and paid tax on the $250 and claimed the expenses as business expenses they probably would come out farther ahead than not declaring the income. Especially since you could make the case that the house, and hence the majority of the rent and utilities, were for the business.
You're a fucking mind reader 
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On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell.
the thing about poker coaching is they dont teach you necessarily what to think, they teach you how to think
you can can apply the concepts,insights and critical analyses yourself
there are far too many unique situations in poker
which is why i think listening to commentary would be of greater use
you will learn to apply concepts to separate situations by yourself
if you learn to critically analyze your own play on your own, you'd be better served for the future IMO
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EPT
