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On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon).
both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded...
he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM"
notice the bold? you fail.
User was warned for this post
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On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail.
They are on contracts...
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On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all.
My god, still this retarded "they are not the best players in the world" argument.
So I assume I shouldnt go to basketball training, because my coach is not Larry fucking Bird.
I shouldnt take guitar lessons, because my guitar teacher isnt Carlos Santana.
I shouldnt go to physics because my teacher isnt Stephen Hawkins.
It's just such a dumb argument,
also fyi, someone who is good at something isnt automatically good at teaching it, and I know that at least incontrol is pretty good at it.
Also wtf does "anyone with decent search skills" mean?
Like what are you searching for?
For guides on the internet? Replays?
Sure they are helpful and also necessary to improve but they wont improve your skill nearly as fast as training by a top player.
And yes btw, these guys have actual contracts which state they are not allowed to talk about their salary.
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Can I come and just watch? I'll do dishes or something. I'm in Phoenix D:
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On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail.
oh christ... get over yourself
its an awesome idea and most people who are willing to pay for this will be able to learn something from them because they are obviously alot better than most people who plays starcraft
and 250dollars is really not alot all things considered
----
And to all the haters... please stop the trolling its not like they are making any major profit on this.
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On May 11 2010 10:18 aycheff wrote:
Can I come and just watch? I'll do dishes or something. I'm in Phoenix D:
That'd be nice, I live in Chandler but I bet they wont let anyone watch. Its gonna be too crowded, plus they will be sharing strats and secrets that we didn't pay for.
Business as usual.
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Good luck. Certainly an interesting idea and to see it taken seriously will, I'm sure, make this a 100 page thread in no time. Hope it works out and everyone's happy.
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On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon).
those arent the SC division..
The SC division does NOT have a player like Grubby (arguably best Orc player in the WORLD). therefor, I am curious. Thats all.. I want to know SPECIFICALLY if the people who are hosting THIS "TRAINING CAMP" are "salaried" .. I know about Grubby, (actually i didnt know he was still with EG, thought he woulda went back to MYM now that they are back, I havent been following war3 scene for years).. But it still does not discredit my point, which is about the SC2 squad.
But I know I wont get an answer; as most teams say "We have our contract that we can't disclose salary negotiations", yet 9 times out of 10, the US teams who are sponsored come out and say after they leave that they were not getting anything or not getting what they are promised.
That is why im curious, as far as I know, theres not many US/North American teams that are salary based, if any (esp at the moment).. so I thought it was a legitimate question, esp when they are getting customers to pay them for this "training camp" and using that as a marketing point for themselves.
You can make the argument that EG isnt even the top North American SC2 team at the moment, with Root Gaming putting up impressive results lately. Along with other teams. So I am curious. Their SC squad is not world-beaters like Grubby and their CS team, therefor theres a HUGE difference. I have been in two teams now that have had excellent salaried CS squads, yet BW/War3 teams were not paid. Its not like just because they have Grubby, to expect that Inka and Machine are getting the exact same setup as Grubby does.
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Wow great idea, although I live in CA, and I'm only 15, but if I lived in Arizona and I was 18 I would go for sure.
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On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept.
hi pick-up artists
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If I had a ride from Ohio to Arizona and 250 dollars I would definitely apply for this, sure, none of them might be the absolute best in the usa, but then again, Effort isn't the best brood war zerg player, but hes still way better than I am at zerg...all four of them are awesome players, I think that you can learn much more at a camp then by watching replays, especially with one on one coaching by all four of them -your getting input that will help you improve your mechanics and gameplay far beyond your current level. I also believe that starcraft 2 does take some mechanics, especially for some specific strategies and heavy harassing/multitasking builds. Besides this, who wants to miss out on an awesome tl meetup like this  ? Three days in an environment geared towards competitive starcraft 2... I can see the perks for sure. And good luck with getting the sponsors for the expo thing, that would be a huge step for esports in the united states!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:hi pick-up artists
Please tell me you've gone to one.
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Braavos36402 Posts
To all the negative posters, if it fails, it fails. What is the problem? I don't think EG is misrepresenting themselves because of some technicalities with the word "progamer" nor are they somehow scamming people to strike it rich -- the price isn't really that high.
I think people on TL are big boys and can decide for themselves whether they want to go to this camp or not.
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On May 11 2010 10:38 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). those arent the SC division.. The SC division does NOT have a player like Grubby (arguably best Orc player in the WORLD). therefor, I am curious. Thats all.. I want to know SPECIFICALLY if the people who are hosting THIS "TRAINING CAMP" are "salaried" .. I know about Grubby, (actually i didnt know he was still with EG, thought he woulda went back to MYM now that they are back, I havent been following war3 scene for years).. But it still does not discredit my point, which is about the SC2 squad.
Exactly my point
On May 11 2010 10:24 UbiNax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail. oh christ... get over yourself its an awesome idea and most people who are willing to pay for this will be able to learn something from them because they are obviously alot better than most people who plays starcraft and 250dollars is really not alot all things considered ---- And to all the haters... please stop the trolling its not like they are making any major profit on this.
Get over myself? I'm not saying anything about my self worth, so please don't bring it up thanks.
I'm not hating or trolling, I'm stating my opinion. I think its horrible timing on their part and a bad decisions because of that. Trolling would be along the lines of "OMG Team EG = Noobs, pay $ to learn from scrubs, rofl i'm #1 plat" none of that came from me.
On May 11 2010 10:17 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all. My god, still this retarded "they are not the best players in the world" argument. So I assume I shouldnt go to basketball training, because my coach is not Larry fucking Bird. I shouldnt take guitar lessons, because my guitar teacher isnt Carlos Santana. I shouldnt go to physics because my teacher isnt Stephen Hawkins. It's just such a dumb argument, also fyi, someone who is good at something isnt automatically good at teaching it, and I know that at least incontrol is pretty good at it. Also wtf does "anyone with decent search skills" mean? Like what are you searching for? For guides on the internet? Replays? Sure they are helpful and also necessary to improve but they wont improve your skill nearly as fast as training by a top player. And yes btw, these guys have actual contracts which state they are not allowed to talk about their salary.
First off, the SC2 team isn't salaried unless it changed after the recent Incontrol inverview with husky where he basically says he's broke and his only job is at gamestop....
secondly, "anyone with decent searching skills" means exactly what you said. Of course being trained by someone may be beneficial to a lot of people, but in all honesty, its not too useful right now for two reasons.
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet.
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On May 11 2010 10:55 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept. hi pick-up artists Please tell me you've gone to one.
OH HI, I was just pointing out this is the same idea
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And for the reading-impaired people, if you read back 2-3 pages ago, I said this whole idea is a GOOD IDEA, and the $250 price is reasonable for what they are asking. I pay that in 5 hours of guitar lessons, so a full weekend of SC knowledge is worth it to someone who wants it.
I just wanted to find out if they were backing up some of the claims they said themselves, im not arguing they are a bad team, def one of the top in north america, but they shouldnt say certain things if its not true, just to get more customers.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 11 2010 11:02 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:55 Kennigit wrote:On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept. hi pick-up artists Please tell me you've gone to one. OH HI, I was just pointing out this is the same idea
Yup, and they are EXTREMELY profitable lol.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
greggsauce would you be shocked to learn that despite our "recent performance" (laughable, we played other TOP players and lost/won but apparently that makes us average platinum players) we are STILL better than 99% of people in the USA? Yep. Hate to burst your bubble but you can name maybe 4-5 other USA SC2 players that are currently around our skill level but nobody that is run away better save for IdrA and he is in korea + he loses games to us as well.
You are rapidly approaching uncommunicative levels when you assert things based on me saying I was broke in an interview and "recent performance" when we h ad louder take 4th in the NA invitational, Machine helped close out the USA vs Canada showmatch winning 2-0 vs their best players, Inka clobbering ZOTAC's recent runner up Jinro 2-0, Lzgamer a weekly tourney champion and myself who ain't too shabby either. But I am not going to continue this argument because I have experience, hard facts and names and you have generalities and the end goal of dirtying this thread up with garbage.
Consider this my last indulgence.
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This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\
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I don't mind the $250, but 9 AM?!?!? :O
EDIT: I was just kidding, I would totally do this if I lived in the area. Good luck to everyone who applies! Can't wait to see the videos and stuff that comes out of this.
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EPT
