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On May 07 2010 06:52 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:44 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 07 2010 06:34 snowdrift86 wrote:Haha watching it on a stream ingame is even more ridiculous. On May 07 2010 06:31 Zeke50100 wrote:
Honestly, I agree with Nazgul. People seem to really want SC1-style moving shot only because they have to push more buttons. Sure, let's purposefully inhibit the new, more powerful engine just so you have something to waste your time microing your units in a game where macro has become more important. Waste your time microing? Why do you even play the game? Microing is fun. And might as well automate every unit's behavior so as to not "inhibit" the engine. Except hard-counters make up the game in its current state. If you don't properly macro/are even slightly delayed while macroing, you'll lose. Also, automating everything =/= uninhibiting the engine. Inhibiting the engine is making an adjustment to unnecessarily make the game harder for the player when they could initially do said thing easier without automating the game for them. You could NEVER initially move-shoot with Phoenixes. Changing that to a "click P, A, H, S, then Click" system would be inhibiting the engine. Also, for some reason, people think anything related to the "Move" command isn't micro. If you can explain how perfectly timing your switches (due to the unit in question having a higher movement speed) and getting as many shots off as possible without being hit yourself is not micro, I'll give you a cookie. This new "micro" is a joke. It isn't challenging at all, it's same as the most basic kiting with stalkers vs zealots, for example. You move your stalkers back when zeals are moving close and once zeals retreat, you chase them. Except that it doesn't require attack-move command.. You just spam move.. It's like 5 times easier compared to BW. Phoenix became some sort of moving fortress which automatically attacks units near it, without requiring to attack-move. This isn't micro
I don't see you raping mutalisks without getting hit a single time.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Why are you guys freaking out when it's been live for like a hour? How about you play it for a week and then decide if it's terrible?
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On May 07 2010 06:45 Lollersauce wrote:
Oh I know what I'll do when P goes phoenixes, I'll just make more of that awesome Zerg AA, or some spores which take 12 sec to move if they ever need to root. Oh but I forgot about queens, those phoenixes will totally get rolled by my queens, RIGHT? lololol
Basically ZvP = really fast hydras or die. And then hydras still get gravbeamed.
Yes or if you read all of the changes properly you'd see Infestors can NP air now, and would NP his Phoenix making them useless and keep them at your base as defense, and then immediately counter.
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8751 Posts
On May 07 2010 06:56 Kennigit wrote:
Why are you guys freaking out when it's been live for like a hour? How about you play it for a week and then decide if it's terrible?
It's funny cuz people haven't been able to use Phoenixes well anyway. This change won't make the difference between them working or not for most people. But, all the better for me. =]
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Can't we just wait and see how this plays out? Even if it is op at first it can still be fine tuned - it is beta after all.
I think it's a step in the right direction at least. I'm glad to see Blizzard pressing these kinds of buttons - no better time then now.
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haha pheonixs flying backwards faster than mutas flying forward
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Jiminy Christmas, what was Blizzard thinking?! Giving the ability to move and shoot without costing APM is the dumbest thing evar, and it will kill Starcraft 2.
Just like how MBS killed SC2, since it reduces the APM required.
And how auto-mine killed SC2.
And smartcasting. And autocasting.
+ Show Spoiler +To be perfectly clear: I'm being sarcastic.
I look forward to playing around with the new Phoenoxen tonight!
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United Kingdom2674 Posts
I have to say... it looks utterly bizarre. It's a buff to Protoss against muta (which I think was probably needed) but it is one hell of a strange buff.
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The Phoenix needs a passive ability icon to explain it's firing while moving mechanic. The same way Immortals have a hardened shield passive ability icon to explain it's different shield mechanic.
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On May 07 2010 06:54 Random() wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:23 RotterdaM wrote:
sc II aka red alert 4 ^^ getting more sad day by day... but yeah it looks "awesome", it also looks hillarious in a way of a joke, not how it I wanna play a competitive rts ;() hope they fix it, im surprised there are even a few people who are positiv about this o_o Oh, come on, it is cool and funny and an attention sink and also gives the previously boring unit a unique bad-ass feel. It's not like phoenixes auto-micro themselves now, you still need to manually maintain the proper distance to kite units. Just why exactly you don't like this?
Maintaining the proper distance is more of a reaction thing, you just have to move back once enemy units start charging forward and chase when they are moving back..By using move command.You don't even need to attack-move AT ALL.
Compared to BW micro, it's simply a joke.
I just hope it wasn't intentional from Blizzard to make it easier to micro for new players
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On May 07 2010 06:48 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:14 mahnini wrote:
this is the most terrible change i've ever seen. If it is true that you simply right click move away without patrol/attack/hold moving...then this is indeed the worst change this patch. It makes it EASYMODE. as said, moving shot is not = right click and the unit attack/moves for you while you stay out of range infinitely. Any fucking noob can do that Blizzard.
Blizzard is not going to make moving shot work like it did in SC1. The SC1 method didn't make any logical sense and was a gameplay bug. The SC2 method makes sense. It is made obvious that the unit can do this, which units can do it is well known, and how to do it is also equally obvious.
That you don't have to press 4 buttons to do it is pretty much like having MBS and rally mining. SC2 is more effective at having the user control the game than SC1 is.
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I just hope it wasn't intentional from Blizzard to make it easier to micro for new players
why would that would be wrong?
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On May 07 2010 07:00 NicolBolas wrote:
SC2 is more effective at having the user control the game than SC1 is.
I only told my phoenixes to move. If I wanted them to do something else, I would have told them to.
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It's really not gamebreaking at all in it's current state. Since they don't stack, you have to make sure that one phoenix doesnt fly into the mutas at all times to get picked off easily.
It would be if the phoenixes could perma stack, but I suppose if other units could perma stack too, it'd negate it, and we'd be left with BW style air micro
Wait... that's an idea!
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 07 2010 06:48 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:14 mahnini wrote:
this is the most terrible change i've ever seen. If it is true that you simply right click move away without patrol/attack/hold moving...then this is indeed the worst change this patch. It makes it EASYMODE. as said, moving shot is not = right click and the unit attack/moves for you while you stay out of range infinitely. Any fucking noob can do that Blizzard.
Like spamming a-move/move/a-move/move is so hard that only a genius is able to do that.
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On May 07 2010 06:31 MasterFwiffo wrote:
I'd like to see this implemented in Hellions and Mutalisks too.
This very much, although I it is good to not give many units this new mechanic right away. I wouldn't be suprised at all if mutas got this in the next patch.
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On May 07 2010 06:58 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
I have to say... it looks utterly bizarre. It's a buff to Protoss against muta (which I think was probably needed) but it is one hell of a strange buff.
Well, it IS supposed to hard-counter them 
Maybe Zerg players will actually build Corruptors other than to transform into Brood Lords.
Phoenix > Muta
Corruptor > Phoenix
Corruptor > Muta
Viking > Phoenix
Viking > Corruptor
Viking > Muta
Void Ray > Corruptor (w/ Micro)
Void Ray > Viking (w/ Micro)
Void Ray > Phoenix (w/ Micro)
Void Ray > Muta (w/ Micro)
Meh.
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It's a cute trick, but honestly I'd prefer the hard counter to massed air that was the corsair. I guess having to micro the phoenix to get the most out of it is good for competitive purposes, though.
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Why shouldn't phoenix hard counter mutas? They cost the same, Protoss needs a specific tech building to get it, they come out slowly, and do not harrass workers or influence a big fight the way mutas can.
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EPT
