EPT[Show] Weapon of Choice - 7:00 PM EDT - Page 68
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:30 ArgosDelta wrote: You guys are being incredibly hypocritical. The fanboyism towards incontrol is appalling. We are playing a game that is literally about killing other human beings or species. How is this okay but rape isnt? Really? You can murder someone but god forbid you call them a select word, that'll get you thrown in jail for years! Come on guys, we're better than this. If you want to take the moral highground stop playing the game about war, murder, oppression, genocide, racism, and terrorism. Murder is a part of the game, we can't take that out. Rape and use of racial slurs and etc are not. | ||
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gregnog
United States289 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:39 jmbthirteen wrote: Murder is a part of the game, we can't take that out. Rape and use of racial slurs and etc are not. Such fail logic.... So if there was a rape ability in the game.... you would think it is acceptable. That is a very shallow level of thinking you got going on there. Just because the platform we play on involves murder and terrorism it is instantly not offensive and is not under consideration. I shouldn't have even bothered replying but w/e. Very very misguided post. | ||
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:39 jmbthirteen wrote: Murder is a part of the game, we can't take that out. Rape and use of racial slurs and etc are not. But you choose to do it over and over. You choose to simulate murder and war over and over. If i made a rape simulator would you deem it okay? | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:47 gregnog wrote: Such fail logic.... So if there was a rape ability in the game.... you would think it is acceptable. That is a very shallow level of thinking you got going on there. Just because the platform we play on involves murder and terrorism it is instantly not offensive and is not under consideration. I shouldn't have even bothered replying but w/e. Very very misguided post. I didn't mean to imply the game makes murder not offensive. All I was saying is that we can't control that there is murder in the game. | ||
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:54 ArgosDelta wrote: Yes you can control it! you cant just weasel out of this! You play a murder simulator every fucking day! Me not playing the game doesn't equal me taking murder out of the game... | ||
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:59 ArgosDelta wrote: you're still simulating the act of murder. That's highly offensive to military vets, people who last family members to violence, etc And where did I say it wasn't? | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
Found the post: Seriously, this is the truth. Part of the argument I feel is being shied away from is the fact that Destiny really represents the 'old guard" of gaming. Young teenage or college age males with disregard to the politically correct sensibilities of the mainstream. This is undeniable. I think Destiny's stream is a rallying point for this huge demographic in the sense that starcraft2 is becoming really pretentious about it's growth. With the boom of e-sports I've personally watched alot of players, incontrol included, try to posture themselves as John Maddens and the like instead of the raucous young men they used to be. Now im not saying that professionalism is bad, but it just seems like a paper thin charade to attract middle-aged divorcees and retirees to watch so that people can profit. It can really chafe. "Huge demographic". Don't kid yourself. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:30 ArgosDelta wrote: You guys are being incredibly hypocritical. The fanboyism towards incontrol is appalling. We are playing a game that is literally about killing other human beings or species. How is this okay but rape isnt? Really? You can murder someone but god forbid you call them a select word, that'll get you thrown in jail for years! Come on guys, we're better than this. If you want to take the moral highground stop playing the game about war, murder, oppression, genocide, racism, and terrorism. Feel free to go make a video game where you rape people see where that gets you. ;o | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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SlipperySnake
248 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:30 ArgosDelta wrote: You guys are being incredibly hypocritical. The fanboyism towards incontrol is appalling. We are playing a game that is literally about killing other human beings or species. How is this okay but rape isnt? Really? You can murder someone but god forbid you call them a select word, that'll get you thrown in jail for years! Come on guys, we're better than this. If you want to take the moral highground stop playing the game about war, murder, oppression, genocide, racism, and terrorism. Don't know where this outrage is coming from we play a war game which is completely unrelated to the issue of rape. People use rape as being synonymous with one person dominating another when there are words that perfectly describe the same thing without using a word that doesn't fit and bothers people. | ||
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
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ArgosDelta
23 Posts
On May 31 2011 11:05 garlicface wrote: Since when did these words represent a part of us as "gamers"? Argos, in one of your posts you mentioned the "old guard" of gaming - teens and 20-somethings that don't shy away from the use of these words, because they aren't concerned with professionalism (as it is defined today). Found the post: "Huge demographic". Don't kid yourself. Are you going to argue that gaming hasn't largely been in the past been focused towards young men? Yes, they are a huge demographic. | ||
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gregnog
United States289 Posts
On May 31 2011 11:13 SlipperySnake wrote: Don't know where this outrage is coming from we play a war game which is completely unrelated to the issue of rape. People use rape as being synonymous with one person dominating another when there are words that perfectly describe the same thing without using a word that doesn't fit and bothers people. We are not trying to say it is the same issue, but it is offensive, which is the topic of this dicussion. In fact I am much more partial to violence and people who were subjected to it rather than the simple word Rape. By your logic the game designers should make the Marines in game stick figures with no blood. The point some people are trying to get across is, you people complaining about rape being offensive are pretty selective with your ideals. While at the same time being extremely hypocritical when considering how easily you shrug off the entire argument, which is what you all got mad about in the first place when people in the community were doing the same over the word Rape. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 31 2011 10:30 ArgosDelta wrote: You guys are being incredibly hypocritical. The fanboyism towards incontrol is appalling. We are playing a game that is literally about killing other human beings or species. How is this okay but rape isnt? Really? You can murder someone but god forbid you call them a select word, that'll get you thrown in jail for years! Come on guys, we're better than this. If you want to take the moral highground stop playing the game about war, murder, oppression, genocide, racism, and terrorism. There are two very different things here: 1. Killing in an obviously non-realisitic setting. 2. "Violent / aggressive / inappropriate" language used by a caster. Only one of the two will usually be taken over by the viewers. Your choice. In the context of this I have the usual question which we should all ask ourselves whenever we invent something new: The use of the word rape might be thought of as a rather aggressive version of "overwhelm", but answer the following please: How does using words like "fuck", "shit", "balls", "dick" and others improve the quality of our lives and the cast? (hint: MORE casts dont automatically make your life better because you only have 24 hours each day, thus the only increase which is left is QUALITY.) I have the same problem with our german casters who are casting in "german". They are adapting regular ENGLISH words like "go" and "slide" and other halves of words into their supposedly german casts and the german kiddies are learning to talk like their idols. That hurts the german language because there are equally good german words the casters could use, but they sit on their high and might throne with the "I cast how I want to" excuse. Sadly I am a minority and the majority just doesnt give a damn because they want to be cool kids. None of them really considers the consequences. This is the reason why I think the casters are responsible for the consequences of their casts - which is mostly their words - and if they dont accept that responsibility for everything they cast they are selfish idiots. Saying "if I cast MLG I will cast differently" just makes it clear that it is a conscious choice (in that cast by djWheat) and thus they choose to use aggressive / offensive language and are responsible for their actions when left to their own whims. Even djWheat admitted that his own son criticises his language, but why doesnt he stop? Simple answer: Scandal creates more attention and makes more money than happy average life and its right up there with "sex sells" (which was defended in a previous episode). Well sex sells doesnt improve the quality of our lives either, it only improves the "luxury level" of those people who sell unnecessary stuff to us by using sex. | ||
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ZergMaestro
United States169 Posts
Yo i just listened to the mp3, and I grew up in inner/north omaha, and in a latino dominate area in the southwest. I've also lived on a Navajo reservation in arizona for a summer(my mom was a drug, and alcohol shrink) Racism is still alive, and a really big deal. My cousin was shot in a driveby on fort st. in omaha cause he was white. this was in '96. My uncle still refers to afro americans as "nappy heads" I don't mind cussing, and shit, but when it gets racial even if its not meant that way. It just isnt right. Wheat's trademark "what is up bitches" is the best part of his shows.  I hope it never changes.Edit: my cousin lived he moved to boys town for a bit, and then moved to kansas. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
To this I say BOLLOCKS, we dont live in the 50s anymore where daddy left in the morning to go to work and earn money and mommy did cleaning, cooking and the care for the children. Todays society looks much different in that we have tons of SINGLE PARENTS who have to make money and go to work while raising some children and lots of families where BOTH PARENTS WORK. So the reality nowadays is that our teens are educating themselves after school nowadays. djWheat can work at home and take care of his son when he does his own shows, but I would guess miniWheat is experienced enough with the computer to "do his own thing" and he might stumble upon some stream or other eventually ... I take my nieces to school every day on bike. There are other parents who take their children by car, but use the niche reserved for the bus to say good bye to their kids (while keeping the engine running) and sometimes there are so many of them that the bus cant get in there and has to stop somewhere else. These parents are giving a bad example to other kids and not only their own by ignoring rules in the full realization that they wont ever be punished for breaking them. Is that a good thing to learn for children? Nope. So the reality now *should be* that all adults are responsible for the education of the next generation, because that is what our respective country will look like in 30 years. Does anyone really want to have people running around and using foul language? How about an american politician greeting a statesman from Africa in 30 years with a friendly "Yo Nigga, whats up?" Idols in our societies have to give good examples of how to behave and swearing / cursing casters dont do that! Our societies are supposed to evolve and not devolve into the stone age. Oh and "the internet" is public ... worldwide (with the exception of certain restrictive countries) ... so "your channel on justin" isnt the same as talking in your own home. The argument of "you dont have to watch it" only applies to people who can make a fully conscious choice ... which any underage child is not. | ||
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Eurekastreet
1308 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:19 SlipperySnake wrote: Pretty amusing reply although a lot of it was nonsense. Are you really arguing that Destiny would use the word faggot in a way similar to how you have used it? If that or extremely similar cases is the only way Destiny uses the word then sure I read his intentions wrong but I am pretty sure that isn't the case. People read others intentions, it seems like you are completely new to this. There simply aren't that many ways to use these kind of slurs even when you are directly talking to just a friend but that isn't at all the context Destiny is using them in. He is using them when he is broadcasting to thousands of people. Onto you point of saying the opposite, what are you talking about? I was saying that I understand when people don't live up to the ideal. I understand when people make mistakes and say things they shouldn't. What I am saying I don't understand is when people make a mistake but won't admit it and fall back onto some special context. A large part of this argument isn't just how Destiny interprets his own words but how other interpret his words. If you want to say that other are interpreting him wrong then that is your prerogative but it seems pretty insensitive and negligent of the historical meanings of these words. My position is not at all like drawing of the prophet Muhammed (and I won't make some snarky comment about how you are wrong because this is getting uselessly heated). I don't want Destiny to use the words not because they are holy to me and cause me offense but because they perpetuate these stereotypes that have led to harm in the past. Making the word faggot into such an aggressively negative word or at least supporting its use in that way validates those who actually do have that intention. The point is these words have a history of spurring violence and hatred so using them should be taken with a grain of salt. I would relate it more to the Obama monkey cartoons because although the individual context may have been a cartoon you have to also have some historical context. I am not saying I agree with everything that happened in that situation I am just saying it isn't just happenstance when people all interpret your intentions in a certain way. It is based on more than what you personally want your words to mean oftentimes and you have to be aware of that is all. Everyone reads intentions behind words, there's nothing new to this, the difference between us is that you see intentions in Destiny that I don't see (and have no clue where you get them from). Also I never did advocate the use of those words for mainstream purpose but Destiny's stream is a personal stream, it's 18+ rated and there's a warning for verbal content. Once I go through the door, I know some foul language is gonna be used ...but his home, his rules. Some mainstream TV use that language, some rap/rock songs are worse than that, some movies are on par with that, some books are ....should we burn books too or is censoring them enough ? Some of us can hear/use those words and not think of their historical context, the same way when I use the word shit, I don't think of a big pile of poo. Again, why is it that you're the one to decide who's got racist intentions and who doesn't is beyond me but please make a list of words that can be used, I can't wait to read it. Also I read your intentions : you're a wannabe dictator (just like me) | ||
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