EPT[Show] Weapon of Choice - 7:00 PM EDT - Page 56
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Ciddass
Germany149 Posts
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
Words represent ideas. That is their purpose. The words in question have a very specific meaning. You don't get to just say they don't carry the meaning when you use them. Just use different words. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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[-]Ocelot[-]
United States256 Posts
On May 30 2011 06:10 Hatsu wrote: The general demographic is white/male, but that's hardly the point - my fiance is neither a male nor white, yet she agrees on the issue, for example. On the other hand, Incontrol is definitely white/male and I disagree with him. You mention the history of the word "nigger" and it is indeed a powerful one. Yet, in a remarkably similar example, one of the most commonly used and universally known greetings on Earth, "ciao", derives from sciavo, Venetian for slave. My point is, words change their meaning over time. The same word can have a completely different meanings in two cultures. This is on top of the context, too. I gave the example of the white/male because, in general, white males see the least of this type of discrimination. The word you provide is one of a greeting. Yes, over time the word has been adapted from a term meaning "slave" to one meaning "hello" or "goodbye". It's actually not very similar... yet. Has the n-word changed? To some degree, yes. But it hasn't made a radical change in etymology as ciao has seen. "Nigger" still, to this day, holds that powerful stigma. I want to be clear. I've never said words don't change. I've never said they cannot change. Simply, the current state of the word is such that it is not appropriate to be used in such a simple way in a professional setting. I'll argue that Destiny's stream is more of a group of friends. We say things among friends we would never say in a job interview, or to a much wider or different audience. | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:32 SiguR wrote: for once i absolutely agree with what incontrol was saying. Words represent ideas. That is their purpose. The words in question have a very specific meaning. You don't get to just say they don't carry the meaning when you use them. Just use different words. Where do you draw the line though? Incontrol said something like 'just stop saying nigger and rape and you'll be fine'. A few minutes later Destiny asks Incontrol what he thinks of the word fag and gay. Incontrol then turns it into a joke by saying 'HELL, THATS 4 WORDS YOU CANNOT USE!' in true incontrol fashion. In 2 minutes he doubled the amount of words which are not okay to use. Is it fine to say that a hellion incinerated a marine? What if my father was trapped in a burning house and burned alive? Suicide? Words have the meaning you apply to them. Saying that certain words are offensive because they offend lots of people and then saying other words are fine because they offend a smaller amount of people is hypocritical. Incontrol is just being politically correct. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:39 Bergys wrote: Is it fine to say that a hellion incinerated a marine? That is what's actually happening on the screen, so it's hardly comparable to the word "rape". | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:41 blackone wrote: That is what's actually happening on the screen, so it's hardly comparable to the word "rape". Well suicide then. A marine walks into the opposing force to scout its composition and "suicides". Tasteless says it frequently. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27157 Posts
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:39 Bergys wrote: Where do you draw the line though? Incontrol said something like 'just stop saying nigger and rape and you'll be fine'. A few minutes later Destiny asks Incontrol what he thinks of the word fag and gay. Incontrol then turns it into a joke by saying 'HELL, THATS 4 WORDS YOU CANNOT USE!' in true incontrol fashion. In 2 minutes he doubled the amount of words which are not okay to use. Is it fine to say that a hellion incinerated a marine? What if my father was trapped in a burning house and burned alive? Suicide? Words have the meaning you apply to them. Saying that certain words are offensive because they offend lots of people and then saying other words are fine because they offend a smaller amount of people is hypocritical. Incontrol is just being politically correct. For such an unprofessional person in his casting and his stream, I'm really confused at his stance in this. I'm sure people are well aware of the contradiction, and are able to get the VODs to back it up. | ||
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NeonGenesis
Norway260 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:32 SiguR wrote: for once i absolutely agree with what incontrol was saying. Words represent ideas. That is their purpose. The words in question have a very specific meaning. You don't get to just say they don't carry the meaning when you use them. Just use different words. I strongly disagree with you. It is not the words themselves but the spirit in which they are conveyed that matters. In equal fashion, veiled insults are insults nonetheless, no matter how sugar-coated the words are. | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:41 blackone wrote: That is what's actually happening on the screen, so it's hardly comparable to the word "rape". Also I'd argue that the marine is actually getting "raped". If Destiny f.ex. says a 'that marine just got raped!' he's obviously not referring to it being sexually violated. In the gaming world rape is commonly used to describe someone getting killed, owned or something similar. And in the gaming world it's what the words means to me and to most gamers(?). Words can have different meanings then what the dictionary says. | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
are we trying to grow esports and make it legitimate or just messing around on the computer ? Would a high dollar sponsor such as Pepsi or McDonalds ever endorse a public figure who dropped the n-bomb needlessly in anger over a video game and then defended their actions publicly ? Would Forbes put there name behind the audio clip of 'destiny' defending the use of the 'N' word ?? If he had done that in the forbes interview I don't think it would ever have gone out.. How many parents would be proud of their child who went around dropping the n-bomb and then justified it with an argument about context ? There is not an 'acceptable context' to use that phrase publicly concerning video games.. children will be exposed to this thinking at some point in their lives, but it should not be via a show about a mainstream video game.. and these words certainly should not be made light of and should not be acceptable to the community in a 'different context'.. as a community we need to police our own because they reflect on the name 'starcraft' and all of us | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:45 Manifesto7 wrote: Talk about the show. Yeah! Don't talk about what was talked about on the show. Check the SOTG thread for an example of 1k pages of strict discussion on only what the show is not what is discussed there. | ||
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dapanman
United States316 Posts
On May 30 2011 08:01 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah! Don't talk about what was talked about on the show. Check the SOTG thread for an example of 1k pages of strict discussion on only what the show is not what is discussed there. You stole my post. I'LL TALK ABOUT THE SHOW HERE THOUGH: I didn't actually finish watching it, I'm curious if Destiny gave a shoutout to his sponsors at the end. edit: I really don't want to get into this discussion but addressing the post directly below me, On May 30 2011 08:11 krooked wrote: [...]If I say "LOL RAPED", I'm not talking about actually raping someone [...] but only the ideas or emotions that the person is actually trying to convey. If you are not talking about rape, why would you use the word rape? That is a rhetorical question; you wouldn't, you would use a word that actually described what was happening. One uses words because they have a fixed meaning. If words meant whatever the speaker wanted them to mean, then language as an endeavor would fail and we'd all run around talking like Humpty-Dumpty, never actually conveying an idea. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
Words are... just words. I remember when I was younger. If I got hurt, I yelled "fuck" or "damnit", and my parents would be all "Ooooh don't use that word!". I could've said "gosh dang it", and they wouldn't have a problem with it. But the point of me saying it was the same. It was conveying my emotions. If I say "LOL RAPED", I'm not talking about actually raping someone, and I do not mean to hurt people who have been raped. The word is just a word, the meaning behind the word is the only thing that is worth discussing. If you want to say that words represents ideas, then yeah sure they do, but only the ideas or emotions that the person is actually trying to convey. If they don't want to hurt anyone, then there is not any problems. Its the same thing when people get bullied for being overweight. The problem isn't the word "fatty", its the fact that they are trying to hurt the person that is the problem. English is not my first language so it might be hard to understand my point, and what I am trying to say might have been posted before, but there are A LOT of posts on the subject and I can't read them all. | ||
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PieLieDie
Sweden172 Posts
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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TheHova
United Kingdom2612 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:47 NeonGenesis wrote: I strongly disagree with you. It is not the words themselves but the spirit in which they are conveyed that matters. In equal fashion, veiled insults are insults nonetheless, no matter how sugar-coated the words are. Precisely. This is something we will all never agree upon just because that's the nature of humanity and we all have different opinions. But we can at least be tolerant of each other and respect that we all have those different opinions. Do i personally agree with being offended by a word more than the context in which words are used? No, but i can respect that for some people that isn't the case and not everyone will share the same opinion as me. | ||
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Stuv
Netherlands942 Posts
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RebelMusic
United States66 Posts
On May 30 2011 08:01 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah! Don't talk about what was talked about on the show. Check the SOTG thread for an example of 1k pages of strict discussion on only what the show is not what is discussed there. thank you for saying this | ||
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