EPTGLHF.tv - Official Thread - Page 3
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Hasudk
Denmark78 Posts
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
- Don't play music. Theres quite a few (incl me) that dislike background music because it kinda distracts from everything else thats going on. In a sense, we are tuning in to listen to the cast and teh game, not some random jap techno. - GunRun is clueless for quite a few times. I really recommend learning a lot of the names/units/etc by heart. He is fumbling with names/units etc a lot. He even forgets where Martijn is from, when its his main co host :S. - Just now watching, Protoss player makes 1 robo and 2 gateways. Gunrun says: "Probably seeing some immortals maybe? I dont know..." . Instead of that, try to explain why the protoss might be going for certain composition. - Martijn needs to fix his internet/router/pc. - Ret disconnects after a few minutes in the start. There is a 4minute rule in place so that you can get a rematch if you disconnect. Gunrun is wondering if 4 minutes have passed. There are 3 warpgates up already, 2 immortals out as well as quite a few sentries. This would tell you instantly that ofcourse its passed 4 minutes. These are the kind of things that you should know/feel when playing/watching. - When there is little to cast at the start of a game, try to talk about certain different things the players can do. Will you see a zerg FE vs protoss? is there a chance to see some proxy? Void harass? Adding more as i see more things that could be improved | ||
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ToT)OjKa(
Korea (South)2437 Posts
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Sydonai
Finland26 Posts
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - Don't play music. Theres quite a few (incl me) that dislike background music because it kinda distracts from everything else thats going on. In a sense, we are tuning in to listen to the cast and teh game, not some random jap techno. A lot of commentators/broadcasters would disagree with you that there should be no music at all. However we can definitely argue about what music and how loud though. Is it the type of music that bothers you or is it too overwhelming that it drowns out game-noises/commentary? We can do some trials with no music during the games at all though. On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - GunRun is clueless for quite a few times. I really recommend learning a lot of the names/units/etc by heart. He is fumbling with names/units etc a lot. He even forgets where Martijn is from, when its his main co host :S. He wasn't on his own pc and got a little startled, it's like playing sc2 with someone elses mouse/keyboard. He went into rambling mode haha. I tried to calm him down but yeah, I fully admit that was a newbie mistake on our part. You'll hopefully never hear that again. On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - Just now watching, Protoss player makes 1 robo and 2 gateways. Gunrun says: "Probably seeing some immortals maybe? I dont know..." . Instead of that, try to explain why the protoss might be going for certain composition. In the context I think he meant "I'm not sure" and "I'm not sure that's a good idea". But yeah, I will force him to play offrace for a while  On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - Martijn needs to fix his internet/router/pc. TOTALLY. I haven't disconnected twice in one day in the last.. 2 years or something. This is what I pulled from my router; Apr 16 19:53:41 (since last boot) KERNEL Controlled restart (after internal error or explicit system reboot) I'm totally freaked out by it and as soon as I get a chance to switch out the wiring (need 8 instead of 2 for the dsl in) I will switch to a different router. This never happens to me. On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - Ret disconnects after a few minutes in the start. There is a 4minute rule in place so that you can get a rematch if you disconnect. Gunrun is wondering if 4 minutes have passed. There are 3 warpgates up already, 2 immortals out as well as quite a few sentries. This would tell you instantly that ofcourse its passed 4 minutes. These are the kind of things that you should know/feel when playing/watching. I personally was already thinking ahead because I really didn't think that Nazgul would take a disconnect win over ret. Hey, at least we knew there was a rule right? On April 17 2010 04:16 Erucious wrote: - When there is little to cast at the start of a game, try to talk about certain different things the players can do. Will you see a zerg FE vs protoss? is there a chance to see some proxy? Void harass? My weakest match-up. If anyone wants to help my zerg-game I would totally take them up on the offer. I know what I'm looking for playing vs zerg and I know what to look for, but if I could offrace against someone who could give me pointers that'd be great ;p Maybe I should make thegunrun play protoss against my terribadzerg. Thanks a lot for your comments man, this is really constructive feed back. Things we can actually use. It's much appreciated. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 17 2010 04:16 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Is it possible to update the main op to make it easier to know when stuff is going on? I only found out this was live now because I've just spent all day watching people play sc2 and vods yo We requested to be added as a featured stream, but that's all up to the TL crew whether they think we're worthy so to speak. Alternatively you can follow me on twitter; http://twitter.com/MartijnMumbles I make it a point to tweet about upcoming games. And I just got thegunrun's password so I can update the original post like you requested. Thanks for the note. On April 17 2010 04:15 Hasudk wrote: Ouch Ret disconnected in first game, bad start. Really nice to see that Nazgul agreed start over, manners FTW. I know man, great showing by Nazgul, good manner. | ||
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
 . Just a i'd like to add: For some...odd reason, for lack of better words, it feels like the casting *value* is a bit less than i (personally) would like to see in a commentated game. Not only do I, as a viewer, want to be entertained with good games, but also informed of and even learn things that the players do. I feel that the analysis of the games is a bit "shallow". I kinda don't want to compare you to Day[9], but i feel theres a big difference in depth and in direct result "professionalism". By "professionalism" i mean that you do have a company behind you and asking you for viewer ratings (Razer, at the Razer domination tourney), so in a sense you are working with/for them. In comparison to just a random guy sitting in his shed/loft/toilet commenting on games, you have a *name* to carry - and the more professionality (is that a word?) you can put into that name (Both GLHF.tv and customers) the better. I (again, personally, not sure if others feel the same ofcourse) feel that the depth of the cast leaves me a little bit unsatisfied without analysis that opens up *questions* for me. Again, i dont want to compare to Day[9], but since most of the people know his cast as well, for this example i will again. Often after a game (live games, replay casts, or even standard dailies), Sean does a short post game analysis of about 2-3 sentences. After that he asks questions to himself, and the viewers of what the player couldve done better? Since you two are two casters, you can immediately have a dialogue with different input of certain things you would've liked to have seen done, or done better. The main reason i don't want to compare to Day[9], is that he has his own thing going with (possibly) a different audience than you do. Hence im a bit reluctant on comparing. Either way, this was something that kinda popped into my head a few hours after the cast and i felt like it might be interesting for you to read/think about. If it isn't, then....just use this as toiletpaper  Cheers and keep up the hard work | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 17 2010 07:59 Erucious wrote: Thanks for the replies Martijn. I see that certain things you agree with me, and some things you don't. Thats fine, thats what opinions are for, right? . Just a i'd like to add: For some...odd reason, for lack of better words, it feels like the casting *value* is a bit less than i (personally) would like to see in a commentated game. Not only do I, as a viewer, want to be entertained with good games, but also informed of and even learn things that the players do. I feel that the analysis of the games is a bit "shallow". I kinda don't want to compare you to Day[9], but i feel theres a big difference in depth and in direct result "professionalism". By "professionalism" i mean that you do have a company behind you and asking you for viewer ratings (Razer, at the Razer domination tourney), so in a sense you are working with/for them. In comparison to just a random guy sitting in his shed/loft/toilet commenting on games, you have a *name* to carry - and the more professionality (is that a word?) you can put into that name (Both GLHF.tv and customers) the better. I (again, personally, not sure if others feel the same ofcourse) feel that the depth of the cast leaves me a little bit unsatisfied without analysis that opens up *questions* for me. Again, i dont want to compare to Day[9], but since most of the people know his cast as well, for this example i will again. Often after a game (live games, replay casts, or even standard dailies), Sean does a short post game analysis of about 2-3 sentences. After that he asks questions to himself, and the viewers of what the player couldve done better? Since you two are two casters, you can immediately have a dialogue with different input of certain things you would've liked to have seen done, or done better. The main reason i don't want to compare to Day[9], is that he has his own thing going with (possibly) a different audience than you do. Hence im a bit reluctant on comparing. Either way, this was something that kinda popped into my head a few hours after the cast and i felt like it might be interesting for you to read/think about. If it isn't, then....just use this as toiletpaper Cheers and keep up the hard work I'll try to be very short on this and it has nothing to do with you or anything you've even heard of likely. But if anyone wants to tell me I'm "working" for anyone, I better be getting fucking paid. After all the nonsense and bs I went through with CAL & CPL, I literally twitched when you used the term "work". As much as I would love to get paid doing something I love, until I do, I am not "working" for anyone. (Anyone wondering why this pisses me off so irrationally, just google "martijn cpl gaming"). Sorry, you hit some strings there, rage aside. That aside, I'd prefer it if you don't unify professionalism to purely the knowledge base, there's a lot more that comes with doing good commentary. I'll fully well agree day[9] is doing the better commentary. Hell, the other day I didn't put up a stream because I wanted to watch day[9]'s commentary of the match. We have admitted from the start, I'm not day[9], I don't have 10 years of competitive sc gaming. I do have 7 years of commentary experience though, a chunk of which RTS's. You can ask me to compete with the depth of day[9]'s commentary, but that's like expecting someone that has retired from competitive sc for a long time to come back, practice a few days and beat Flash.. Ok bad example. Regardless, I know I can't compete with day[9]'s game-sense, I mean come on now. I prefer his commentary over mine too right now. Besides, it takes a lot of confidence to criticize these players when you know that odds are, they'd demolish you. I specifically started making attempts at predicting plays, but when Nazgul popped out that immortal before the observer even though he hadn't scouted ret's tech at all on Scrap Station, all I could think was "FUCK how could I get that wrong". I was convinced he'd go observer first because it seemed completely logical and I ended up making an ass out of myself. Now maybe if Nazgul comes in and says "oh yeah, I just didn't feel like it" or something I wouldn't feel bad, but it's just a sign that I need to be careful what I say. In commentary, you're taught that the only thing that makes you look worse than not calling something is calling something completely wrong. The Caster Curse, when a player does the exact opposite of what you called and it looks like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. If there is one big fear I have in all this, it is that the community will just reject my casting outright if I start making claims which just don't pan out, because I get hit by the caster curse or maybe I actually do just call it wrong, either way. I know I'm pretty "hey how are you!" and happy-go-lucky but I am worried that if I make mistakes, this community will be ruthless in cutting me down. I refuse to be the next "terrible terrible damage". So maybe it's selfish, but I would like to ask for more time. I actually can read into sc2 quite well, but I would prefer to play it a little safe until I have a reputation of being an by-the-book solid sc2 caster to fall back on. I think then I can risk going for being an awesome sc2 caster. Just going out there and saying "I predict so so and so" is too close to playing the lottery, with patches coming out so rapidly. Even if I am convinced I'm holding the winning numbers, spending my millions seems premature. In short, I fully agree with you. Day[9]'s commentary is way more insightful and he's got a better understanding of this game. I'm totally a day[9] fan. But I can't live up to those standards yet and if I could I wouldn't have the confidence to yet. So yeah, we are going to aim for a crowd that's a little more into "sitting back, relaxing, casually enjoying some sc2, while nodding their heads to the mellow tunes softly in the background", because that's a crowd we know we can please right away. First produce something that contributes to the community, provide added value. Once we get some credibility, when people have seen us around more, when I do have more than 100 followers on twitter, I promise I will go for the broadcasting gold. I'm coming for you Sean Plott, slowly but surely, I'M COMING FOR YOU! Right now that just seems arrogant. I'd like people to believe that I know my place until I've earned a better one. Semi-related, what did you think of my post here; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119166¤tpage=14 talking about the matches? It was kind of a trial to see what I could come up with to paint a more interesting and exciting picture for upcoming matches. Do you think something like that would suit the broadcast? PS. Sorry, I know I type too much. Edit2. Fuck it, I'll just link it, this drama was back when I was on operations staff for CAL, overseeing wc3 and dota after doing years of "work" for them. http://www.gotfrag.com/portal/story/41540/ | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Some people cant live without constant background music like in a mall or wherever (luckily thats not so common over here in Germany yet), but many people only want to focus on the game and the music is severely distracting, even on a very low volume. Oh and do you really think a discussion about Pokemon is the right thing to fill out some time? | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
If it's his playlist that troubles you and from the sound of it, it's the occasional k-pop, what sounds would you consider non-offensive? What could we do to reach a compromise between your stance and the people that do want a better produced broadcast? Ingame music? That's what the Koreans go for, would that suit you better? As for pokemon, I don't know wtf that was about either. I'm pretty sure I didn't get into it or encourage it, so it can't have lasted too long. | ||
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
. Makes my day the more interesting.First of all, i didnt want to push your button at all with the "working for/working with" thing :p. Remember, SC community are BFF! (best friends forever!) Not much to comment on your post from my side that is. You explained what you want to do with your cast, and where you think you are, and where you hope to end up. Thats great - always good to set goals for the things you do. I like your activeness in this thread to, it shows you care in feedback. I really like the post you made in that thread (the one you linked). That kind of stuff i think is quite good to bring up in the cast. It can kill downtime between matches, and it can spark up a bit of a discussion between the hosts, and the people in the chat too. Just keep up the good, hard work. Put in the hours, and you'll get where u want to get | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On April 17 2010 16:27 Martijn wrote: Well you can't please everyone. Regardless of what music you play (even none at all), someone's going to be irked. So you are saying that people arent watching the stream for the game but for the music? If Day[9] would play music during the show he would get more viewers still? Just stick to the music between games like Day[9] does. That seems a decent compromise, does it not? You also dont need to talk about Pokemon either to fill the gap. On April 17 2010 16:27 Martijn wrote: Saying you won't watch at all because of it seems a bit out there. Not if your (mine) acceptance for electronic music is nonexistant. Also: Are the great commentators on TV for your favorite sports playing music in the background? I dont think so ... I listen to a radio station without a heavy rotation. Maybe that raised my expectances too much, but you have to admit that stuff like K-pop and Pokemon are pretty much covering niches which polarize the listeners / viewers drastically. You either love it or absolutely hate it. Avoiding any such conflict by playing no music at all - most of us are not hearing music the whole day - seems to be a good enough compromise since we all can put on our own favorite music in our own room. Doesnt this make sense? The music is a sideshow and much much much much less important than the actual game and the commentary and if I turn off the sound I cant hear the commentary (which could use improvement, but thats another issue). Even on a low volume an annoying music will still "zap your concentration" and you start focusing too much on it instead of the game. On April 17 2010 16:27 Martijn wrote: As for pokemon, I don't know wtf that was about either. I'm pretty sure I didn't get into it or encourage it, so it can't have lasted too long. At least there is hope. I will still give you guys a chance and occasionally zap in, but once I hear music during a game I will stop watching. | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 17 2010 20:03 Rabiator wrote: So you are saying that people arent watching the stream for the game but for the music? If Day[9] would play music during the show he would get more viewers still? Just stick to the music between games like Day[9] does. That seems a decent compromise, does it not? You also dont need to talk about Pokemon either to fill the gap. The pokemon comment went on for maybe 20 seconds? I don't actually even remember what exactly was said to be quite honest. To me it seems like you're being a bit harsh, criticising a random on the side comment so harshly but maybe I'm not looking at it objectively. And no I don't think we get viewers by playing DJ, but I do think we get viewers by offering a level of production quality that no one else has right now. I don't have anywhere near the convidence in to go up against day[9]s commentary right now, I have watched all the vod's on his channel, every single one, to learn more about specificly commentating sc/sc2. Some a few times over. But we do have a level of production quality that he could learn from us as well. If we didn't have that higher production quality, I don't think many people would watch at all. On April 17 2010 20:03 Rabiator wrote: Not if your (mine) acceptance for electronic music is nonexistant. Also: Are the great commentators on TV for your favorite sports playing music in the background? I dont think so ... Try to find an OSL/MSL recording without sc music in the background though. I realize you might be used to a lot of streamers not having any music while casting, so it seems awkward, but that's mostly because a lot of streamers aren't anywhere near TV-level production. As someone with a lot of experience, I know that there should be some kind of background audio. If it's impossible to find balanced music that people can stand, then ingame music. But I'm 100% convinced "something" should be there. On April 17 2010 20:03 Rabiator wrote: I listen to a radio station without a heavy rotation. Maybe that raised my expectances too much, but you have to admit that stuff like K-pop and Pokemon are pretty much covering niches which polarize the listeners / viewers drastically. You either love it or absolutely hate it. Avoiding any such conflict by playing no music at all - most of us are not hearing music the whole day - seems to be a good enough compromise since we all can put on our own favorite music in our own room. Doesnt this make sense? The music is a sideshow and much much much much less important than the actual game and the commentary and if I turn off the sound I cant hear the commentary (which could use improvement, but thats another issue). Even on a low volume an annoying music will still "zap your concentration" and you start focusing too much on it instead of the game. This is hard for me to comment on because when I'm casting I can't hear the music at all on my end, only thegunrun can. If you could tell me what music you would find "not annoying" that would be a great help. I can tell you, though we're willing to experiment with no music at all, more than likely in the end there will "something" there. I completely agree with you that the music should never be a focus point, and clearly it's too much right now, so we will tone it down considerably. Did he actually play the pokemon theme or something? Oi.. He was broadcasting from a different pc and didn't have his music collection if that's any excuse. Feel free to tell him off in chat next time he pulls a stunt like that ;p What I'm sort of missing with your post is a direction to take. Turning off any music what-so-ever is unprofessional and decreases the production quality of the broadcast. Obviously the current music is way too overwhelming if it bothers our audience this much. So where do I go? Would in-game music on low be acceptable? We've identified a clear problem, but keeping in mind that no music at all is poor, what would you suggest? On April 17 2010 19:52 Erucious wrote: Hey martijn, i dont mind reading long well written posts . Makes my day the more interesting.First of all, i didnt want to push your button at all with the "working for/working with" thing :p. Remember, SC community are BFF! (best friends forever!) Not much to comment on your post from my side that is. You explained what you want to do with your cast, and where you think you are, and where you hope to end up. Thats great - always good to set goals for the things you do. I like your activeness in this thread to, it shows you care in feedback. I really like the post you made in that thread (the one you linked). That kind of stuff i think is quite good to bring up in the cast. It can kill downtime between matches, and it can spark up a bit of a discussion between the hosts, and the people in the chat too. Just keep up the good, hard work. Put in the hours, and you'll get where u want to get Haha, well I'm glad I managed to provide some entertainment. The CAL/CPL nonsense is one of eSports biggest dramafests. I adminned tournaments for CPL at events and was a member of CALs operations staff at peak overseeing more than half of all their games. Spent 4+ years there without getting paid anything. Then they threatened to "fire" everyone.. While they were volunteers. When it comes to feedback I always remind myself I'm not doing this for myself as an individual, but I'm trying to present something that adds value to the community. So if people don't like certain things, I should always look for a workable compromise. To put it bluntly, if people don't tune in and like it, what's the point? It is impossible to please some people, but the people that care enough to provide feedback in most cases show that they care enough to write a post about it. So they're at least hoping for the best and trying to help us improve. | ||
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
the more commentary the better ^_^ | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 17 2010 22:37 Erucious wrote: tbh, i dont think i'd personally mind ingame music at all really. iirc, a lot of the sc1 korean commentators use it as background music. Come to think of it...i can't think of a genre that i would personally put in the background of a cast. Metal/rap/techno(incl all its electronic variations) is too much. Pop/rock would be the only thing that could be a bit more "appropriate" but... I don't know what i'd think when i hear bruce springsteen/rolling stones in the background .I would totally cast to some paint it, black! Haha. I think it'd be hard to balance that though, rather, we can definitely give the ingame music a try! On April 17 2010 22:38 Mykill wrote: awesome the more commentary the better ^_^ Thanks for the words of support! | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
Chill and day[9] casting. http://www.glhf.tv | ||
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On April 18 2010 04:37 NuKedUFirst wrote: It seems as though the stream is very laggy for some The stream is considerably higher quality than say most livestream channels. If you are experiencing lag, make sure you don't have torrents going, downloads, active skype calls, whatever might limit your connection. Also if you're on dial-up, well there's not much we can do. We're at 6.5k viewers and if your connection is ok, it should be smooth. Of course, we don't have this many viewers every day. So if we do run into issues, I apologize beforehand. This was not planned. It should definitely be better for the majority out there right now though. | ||
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