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On April 12 2010 14:09 Martinni wrote:
The general RTS community is really sensitive about manners... I would love to know why. I mean compare that to the Counter-Strike community it's so different, trash talk and bad mouthing other players is generally accepted and not frowned upon.
It's possible that sometimes you dont "gg" at the end of a game because you're frustrated, annoyed, busy with something else, distracted or just forgot.
I personally think people should stop saying "manners" it's really a childish mentally that should stop.
I think that when you play 1v1 Starcraft there's a totally different dynamic going on between the players as opposed to in FPS games. For one thing, the simple fact that it's 1v1 - you don't have a team or a crowd to openly boast to. Compare any traditional team game (basketball, hockey) to any traditional 1v1 game (tennis, chess) and see which has more trash talk. Or compare 1v1 SC to 2v2v2v2 BGH. It's just kinda... a more intimate relationship between competitors, I think. You're sort of forced to think like your opponent to devise a strategy to beat your opponent, and that requires a degree of respect for your opponent.
It also just seems like in FPS trash talk is more suited for the level of action - it can get you pumped and out for blood which could actually make the game more interesting, wheras in an RTS trash talk can only make you on tilt and make stupid errors.
Also... manners are childish? wat.
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On April 12 2010 14:55 hoborg wrote:
Also... manners are childish? wat.
Manners aren't childish but posting a post here on how so-and-so is so bm because he said mean things is childish to me. People should be able to take some and give some and not be so affected by it. I must admit I sometime troll people and have a nice laugh at their expenses when they get offended / really mad... I'm guilty!
I see your point, but can you imagine how much more interesting tennis would be if there was a Serena Williams incident at every game, or some intense trash talking going on between the 2 players 
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I absolutely hate when people prematurely say GG at the start or say GG when they are rolling inside my base killing my nexus and such, honestly the BM has gotten to the point that I barely say GL HF or GG anymore.
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Best feeling is when someone offensive GG's because they rushed mutas in a ZvZ and killed a lot of drones but you stay in the game anyways, and they get eager and stupidly lose your units then you win the game in a long drawn out macro war.
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Osaka27156 Posts
It is just a matter of having honour and respecting intellect.
Guys who engage in gang warfare and get off by shooting people virtually are obviously the base element of the gaming community. See XBox Live Halo players for Exhibit A, or 1400 lb, 5 person CS teams at WCG for exhibit B.
RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game.
To not GG is to not respect the art.
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On April 12 2010 15:09 Manifesto7 wrote:
RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game.
Are you saying competitive CS and other FPS does not require as much intellect, will power? You seem to say that they're brutes throwing stones at each other while SC players are sophisticated intellectuals.
I can't count the hours I spent (read: wasted) with my CS team to come up with strats, position and set ups in an empty server. You need the self control and patience to wait in your spot stay absolutely quiet for the enemy to magically appear, it is not an easy task.
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On April 12 2010 15:28 Martinni wrote:
patience to wait in your spot stay absolutely quiet for the enemy to magically appear, it is not an easy task.
sounds pretty ez to me
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On April 12 2010 15:28 Martinni wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 15:09 Manifesto7 wrote:
RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game. Are you saying competitive CS and other FPS does not require as much intellect, will power? You seem to say that they're brutes throwing stones at each other while SC players are sophisticated intellectuals. I can't count the hours I spent (read: wasted) with my CS team to come up with strats, position and set ups in an empty server. You need the self control and patience to wait in your spot stay absolutely quiet for the enemy to magically appear, it is not an easy task.
Camp wait for someone to come around a corner while your hard scoped? lol sounds very very hard to me hahaha.
But yeah i have had about 10 games so far where people gg and then try and build another base and keep playing the game after i wipe out their main and natural. Its really dumb. I also had one guy gg and he had taken the high yield and massed carriers and rolled in with 14 of em and i almost lost.
offensive gg isnt as common at the lower lvls i dont think? I haven't experienced it but seen it more at the platinum lvls where everything thinks they are amazing and if they lose its because of imba
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Osaka27156 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:28 Martinni wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 15:09 Manifesto7 wrote:
RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game. Are you saying competitive CS and other FPS does not require as much intellect, will power? You seem to say that they're brutes throwing stones at each other while SC players are sophisticated intellectuals.
This is exactly what I am saying.
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Isn't there some happy middle ground where we can all be sophisticated intellectuals throwing stones at each other?
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Osaka27156 Posts
Yeah, that is called politics.
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I think the community is sensitive because it has been relatively small and personal. What we're seeing is the inevitable change that comes along when something becomes massively popular online. MMORPGs are a great example of this, too; small communities are very generous and kind towards each other, but then massive communities like in Warcraft are relatively impersonal, impatient, and mostly immature. The international Starcraft community is about to blow up in the same way.
Regardless, it's a dick move to try to prolong a game as long as possible when it's obviously and unquestionably over.
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On April 12 2010 16:02 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 15:28 Martinni wrote:On April 12 2010 15:09 Manifesto7 wrote:
RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game. Are you saying competitive CS and other FPS does not require as much intellect, will power? You seem to say that they're brutes throwing stones at each other while SC players are sophisticated intellectuals. This is exactly what I am saying.
Haha, so awesome! xD
On topic however, I would say I get annoyed when people leave without gg-ing, and I don't think I've ever left a match without saying gg first (and then immediatly leaving ofcourse).
This is probably why I don't like IdrA as well, even though it can sometimes be entertaining to watch as an audience, it's just not very respectul towards the guy you're playing.
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RTS players, and particularily BW players, appreciate the fine art they are undertaking. They are exposing themselves in a battle of wills and mental strength. The willingness to engage in spirited competition, unprotected by teammates, should be celebrated. Even the worst player in BW deserves a GG for playing a man's game.
To not GG is to not respect the art.
I want this quote in the multiplayer tutorial missions of Starcraft 2! This is "exaketededly"the way I feel about it.
But back to topic! I just played a Terran on bnet and was simply outmacroed and frustrated to lose a 30 min game that turned out seemingly unspectacular. I felt unequipped and shitty about the loss, however, I wrote "GG" and praised his solid playstyle because he straight up beat me without showing weakness.
Well, so I tried to get my feelings out of the way and started the next game...."player found!" and guess what, it was the same Terran again! We made some jokes in the beginning and in the end I won in a pretty close battle. He was very kind and said something like:" haha, you got your revenge huh  GG, WP!"
You can imagine how good i felt! The epitome of an sportsman! Too bad that this man is an exception to the rule....
EDIT: I guess this passage is too good to waste. Gotta put it in my Profile!
EDIT²: too big -.-
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There were 3 kinds of players in WC3
The true sportsman, this players usually starts out with “hi gl” and always ends with a “gg” or “well played”.
The sore loser, is the player who won’t say anything and simply leaves the game.
The dickhead, is the guy who usually starts off with insults. Then once they believe victory is secure and they are about to attack they type “gg noob”. Saying “gg” first when you are the winner is extremely rude which is the point.
I hated the dickhead players but when they say “gg noob” and you manage to comeback and win, wow! That makes the win so much sweeter. In fact I don’t remember any of my games against polite players but I remember this one dickhead like it was yesterday.
Right of the bat this guy starts off with the insults. Then I lose my hero to an early ghoul rush, he typed something along the lines of "gg now leave noob". Things are really starting to look bad but then a little later I managed to snipe his hero and he says “I dont loose to noobs like you”. 20+ minutes later I finally battled back and won the game with the guy talking trash the entire game. It was one of my most satisfying wins in WC3. I posted the repay, tons of players watched it and laughed at this asshole.
So just remember when you do face “the dickhead” it might turn out to become one of your most memorable wins.
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I've my own account (Europe - Platinum), I usually face good manners there. Also I'm playing on that of my brother atm (bronze, trying to check how fast I can get myself back to gold from down there), there's a lot of guys who either don't write at all or are kinda unmannered. Partially it's just because they're bad players, for example they write flames or "bg" as soon as I do some non-standard build orders such as 9 rax reaper.
In cups such as Zotac or esl go4sc2 I only met friendly people so far although I know that there are some idiots around as well.
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I'll usually gg and leave after they throw it back, but sometimes I'll chat while they kill off my stuff if the game was particularly interesting or whatever. I find a lot of people rage quit against me because if I win, I usually win pretty decisively. I don't have to many back and forth games to be honest, I either rape or get raped.
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I think the reason why so many loves good manners in SC(or RTS in general?) is the fact that if you see/hear chat in CS, Halo, DotA, CoD and most other games, it's a ocean of foul mouthed swearing kids, and THAT is annoying as hell, even so much that you can loose the joy of the game, hell i'ts the reason why i stopped playing LoL, and i enjoyed alot the time i played, but in the end, hearing 9 people go ape-shit in 15-40 min just gets old really fast
my 2 cent
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I always GG's and then most of the time leaves. But sometime i stay put and chat if the game was intressting, maybe send in my SCVs to he's army just for the lulz while we are chatting but never let him kill off my buildings before i leave, that's just stupid.
I'm in upper Gold and i sometimes se bad behavior. People not saying "gl" or "hf" and just playing, and then just leave when it's a loss. Usually these players that don't say anything can't play the game at all, and the polite one's can.
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EPT
