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G4MR
United States371 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:43 zomgzergrush wrote: I think blizz is just gonna try to play it cool rather than admit a huge mistake like that  Good thought, but then ling rushes need to be fixed =X True, maybe a decrease in length the force fields last from 15 to 10; and when you kill a sentry their forcefields that the sentry created disappears ^-^ | ||
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
It was enought good. As a terran player i can understand a little bit with the buff for the mech but still, how the zerg will be able to deal with in the early game with no AA that early. I mean queen don't do this work and Infestor is so late. And i want to know do the thor do some good dmg on the void ray ? And why 80sec for concucive shot ? Ok I understand that nurf but now 80 sec for concucive shell, 110sec for combat sheild and 140 sec for stim. now it will be hard to do a good early push in bio without mech | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
ZvT was completely ridiculous. Hydras were too cost effective vs bio, any composition. Without tanks you simply couldn't do anything, and tanks cost a lot of gas, are immobile, and are fragile. Add 1-2 infestors to the mix or some banelings and you pretty much couldn't lose if you were even on economy. The hydra nerf also brings storm back into the game PvZ. Every protoss unit was complete garbage vs hydralisks with the exception of collosi, and collosi don't hit air. Now that hydra actually almost die to storm (should be left with 1 hp), storm should be a much more lucrative choice. Another huge note: Thors no longer require +1 attack to 1 shot hydras, so combined with the new build time, thors are going to be WAY more devastating. However, Roaches still force certain units out of protoss and terran, and still make for uninteresting gameplay. I'm disappointed they weren't nerfed harder. Roaches are still amazing vs mech T, and are only stoppable with marauders. Marine heavy armies might be viable but infestors and banelings still are incredible vs them. Roaches also force immortals, since you really can't afford to spend all your gateway production on stalkers, which leaves you vulnerable to hydras and lings. The armor nerf should help ZvZ quite a bit, but we'll see. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:49 G4MR wrote: True, maybe a decrease in length the force fields last from 15 to 10 By fixed I mean P has nothing to defend early ling rushes if there's no pre-researched forcefield... | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:21 diehilde wrote: in all honesty, jinro had the best tvz on the entire EU server with a strategy centered around thors. The only somewhat viable counter was a shitton of roaches. Now with Thor build time decreased and roaches substantially nerfed, plus the prior patch which made thor annihilate air I cant see anyone beating that strat. how does -1 armor for roach matter vs thor? it helps the hellions a tiny bit vs roaches but theyre still not that good vs just tons of roaches. marauders previously did 18 damage to roaches and now do 19, not the biggest deal. mass roach into broodlords still seems very very strong vs metal / bio/metal play | ||
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Mecha71
United States59 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:21 zazen wrote: GG, I'm done with Zerg, gonna try Terran now I think. People like you don't deserve a beta key. The point of the beta is not to see how high you can get your ratings riding the fotw race. People need to stick the the race they enjoy playing, so they can give concrete feedback on the changes they make, which wont happen if no one is playing the race. | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:49 StoLiVe wrote: And why 80sec for concucive shot ? Ok I understand that nurf but now 80 sec for concucive shell, 110sec for combat sheild and 140 sec for stim. now it will be hard to do a good early push in bio without mech You answered your own question! | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:51 Alou wrote: Why exactly are void rays nerfed in this? It seems more of just a change, rather than a simple nerf or buff. I think we need to try it some before we all jump on the raging bandwagon. If a queen can kill a voidray or if hydras can pop out in time before 1 voidray rush kills the hatch, then all is good. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3115 Posts
...or something like that. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:49 StoLiVe wrote: I much say i don't have time to read all commande because i'm at scholl at the moment, But I don't understand why they buff the void ray :o It was enought good. As a terran player i can understand a little bit with the buff for the mech but still, how the zerg will be able to deal with in the early game with no AA that early. I mean queen don't do this work and Infestor is so late. And i want to know do the thor do some good dmg on the void ray ? And why 80sec for concucive shot ? Ok I understand that nurf but now 80 sec for concucive shell, 110sec for combat sheild and 140 sec for stim. now it will be hard to do a good early push in bio without mech Voidray is now usable in more standard-situations without just being used for rushing/cheesey stuff... And actually it's ridiculously easy for Z to deal with Voidrays - just build additional queens. It's like in SC1 - at first, everyone thought aggressive play was the way to go until they figured out how to deal with it and the problem with very aggressive play is that it has to do DMG, because you put yourself in a not very advantageous position economically. So if you rush for voidrays and Z deflects the attack, it's really hard to win in the long run. @Peabody: Exactly! | ||
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Pervect
1280 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:51 Captain Peabody wrote: I think the Hydra nerf was primarily supposed to make Psi storm more useful against Zerg. Right now, with Zerg going mainly Roach/Hydra, and with psi-storm nearly useless against Roaches and Hydras bigger and with enough hp to survive a full storm, there weren't really many uses for HTs in the matchup. Now, though, un-microed Hydras will die in one storm and/or in two Colossi hits, which makes Zerg players have to micro more with Roaches to absorb damage. ...or something like that. Hydras regen will prevent them from dying, going Colossus is still better than storm. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:16 BentoBox wrote: So for all the people screaming VOID RAY NERF Here's some math. (based off http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Void_Ray) -The VR currently deals 2,4,8 & 4,8,16 against non-armored and armored foes. -Since it takes the VR 3 seconds to fully power up and hits twice a second (again, according to liquipedia), it hence deals 4,8,16 & 12,24,48 damage per second. -With the supposed nerf, the VR would deal 10,10,20 & 20,20,55 damage per second. That's 28 & 84 total damage after 3 seconds compared to 40 & 95. The VR gets buffed. Or maybe I suck at math. You tell me. You kind of suck at math... old = 4(12a), 8(24a), 16(48a) new = 10, 10, 20(50a) Now lets see how the damage is compared over a period of time. old non-armored = 4, 12, 28, 44, 60, 76, 92, 108 new non-armored+ 10, 20, 40, 80, 100, 120, 140, 200 old armored = 12, 36, 84, 132, 180, 228 new armored = 10, 20, 80, 130, 180, 230 So based on the math alone new void ray out damage old void ray on non-armored unit from the start and out damage armored after 5 seconds. Now lets factor in the cost of the void ray, I will only do mineral since gas stays the same. Mineral different mean that for the same mineral cost, you can get 5 old void ray or 4 new void ray. To make my life simple, I will simply multiply all the damage progression by 5 for old and 4 for new. old non-armored = 20, 60, 140, 220, 300, 380 new non-armored = 40, 80, 160, 240, 320, 400 old armored = 60, 180, 420, 660, 900, 1140 new armored = 40, 80, 320, 520, 720, 920 So mineral for mineral, the new void ray stills do more damage to non-armored unit and take a hurting on armored unit. However, if you factor in armor reduction and the fact that most void ray production is limited by gas and not so much mineral and me here too lazy to do more math. I would say that this is still for the most part a buff to void ray. | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
 Great news they listened to the community and made proper decisions! | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:41 G4MR wrote: Next steps are to: Nerf Immortal Energy Shields a tad bit Switch Hallucination (Default) and Forcefield (as an upgrade) the only way they should fix the force field is to put in 75 energy instead of 50 to put them a little bit later in the early game without put off the possibility to defend an early push and not let 1 sentry make 4 force field | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:48 kickinhead wrote: Maybe I don't see it from a TvZ but from a PvZ standpoint and from what I've seen so far (played over 500 Games myself, currently Platinum and watched a buttload of reps) roach+hydra is ridiculously hard to deal with, even with like 5-10 HT's and perfect storms, if the Z reacts well, he can go without loosing a single Hydra/roach in a big fight. Against Terran, I don't really know how it will affect Zerg, but I guess Tanks, Thors and Marines will be used more often, but Zerg still has Mutas, Broodlords and Roaches to deal with Tanks and lots of possibilities to do heavy counterattacks when Terran tries to move out with his slow-moving Units like Tanks and Thors. I guess it will feel a lot more like TvZ Mech in SC1. It was very hard to win in a big fight against Tanks and Goliaths and it was hard defending against Vultures in the beginning, but it was all about the right air-to-ground-ratio and heavy expanding/massing up stuff while the Terran was preparing for his push. I actually think TvZ Mechplay will be awesome now. I guess the Patch will force all races to play a bit differently without really making a race imba... I mean, I've played 250+ Games with Terran whithout Massing Marauders (I was mostly using Marines and Tanks in the first Betaweeks and had easily over 60% wins and it was much more fun than massing marauders as well). why not just go sentry/zealot? They destroy both mutas, hydras, roaches, zealots, banelings, just about every single zerg unit. You of course do have to use guardian shields a lot and have the APM to place perfect force fields to split the zerg army and create some really small artificial chokes. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On April 08 2010 03:53 Pervect wrote: Hydras regen will prevent them from dying, going Colossus is still better than storm. True, but if you watch replays, there are always tons of Hydras surviving with about 10 HP. Then they just retreat a bit and regen, so I think it will make Storm better, or you could say "usable" in PvZ, cuz in Patch7, Storms were usless against Zerg. @3FFA: I went Sentry/Zealots most of the times in PvZ, just because of the reasons you described and cuz HT's and Collos weren't really the way to go. But going Sentry/Zelots will only get you so far in the lategame, so the slight Storm-Buff (with that I mean the Hydranerf) will give you the chance to use higher Tech-Units like HT's and Collossi more often. | ||
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