• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:42
CEST 15:42
KST 22:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy16ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
How can I add timer&apm count ? ASL21 General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Behind the scenes footage of ASL21 Group E
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2191 users

Patch 8 Discussion - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 52 Next
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
April 07 2010 19:06 GMT
#341
On April 08 2010 04:04 StoLiVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 04:01 LUE.Leoj wrote:
They can decrease the build time of mech all they want but honestly unless they can lower the gas cost, and maybe the food cost, it's still underpowered.

I agree but still it's more viable now. pretty sure in the next patch we will see some gas decrease on the tank

Not just more viable, its GAME WINNING NOW! Once a proxy fac is made on scrap station and the Thor is out, Terran wins right away!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
ZergZergling
Profile Joined December 2004
United States29 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 19:10:42
April 07 2010 19:06 GMT
#342
edit: nevermind, i thought queens were armored
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
April 07 2010 19:07 GMT
#343
On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 04:02 nodule wrote:
say it with me, people: THE VOID RAY WAS NOT NERFED

It gained significantly more initial (stage 1+2) dmg, especially against non-armoured units, and does more average damage over time to all units.

It was also made slightly more expensive, mineral-wise, and takes a bit more dmg.

Just because there are some relatively small negative changes to a unit does not mean it was nerfed.

Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way.


Queens aren't armored. It does more damage to them.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 07 2010 19:07 GMT
#344
On April 08 2010 03:56 NicolBolas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 03:51 zomgzergrush wrote:
On April 08 2010 03:51 Alou wrote:
Why exactly are void rays nerfed in this? It seems more of just a change, rather than a simple nerf or buff. I think we need to try it some before we all jump on the raging bandwagon.

If a queen can kill a voidray or if hydras can pop out in time before 1 voidray rush kills the hatch, then all is good.


Perhaps you don't understand the full nature of this Void Ray "nerf."

Before, a Queen could kill a single VR one on one. This is no longer the case. The VR does much more damage to Queens in the lower stages. Once the Queen dies, the VR will be fully charged, and can immediately target the Hatch at maximum power.

So Terran players are going to have to get Marauders if they even smell Roaches coming from the Zerg.

Show nested quote +
And actually it's ridiculously easy for Z to deal with Voidrays - just build additional queens.


While a Hatchery is producing a Queen, it cannot also be making a Lair/Hive. So building a Queen delays your tech massively.


And to complement Incontrol's brilliant observation, I present the above.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
April 07 2010 19:08 GMT
#345
On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 04:02 nodule wrote:
say it with me, people: THE VOID RAY WAS NOT NERFED

It gained significantly more initial (stage 1+2) dmg, especially against non-armoured units, and does more average damage over time to all units.

It was also made slightly more expensive, mineral-wise, and takes a bit more dmg.

Just because there are some relatively small negative changes to a unit does not mean it was nerfed.

Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way.

DOES MORE DAMAGE TO THE QUEEN! It kills the queen 1 on 1 and after that its at full power.
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
April 07 2010 19:08 GMT
#346
Patch is awesome except Void Ray... that is a mystery -.-
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
BentoBox
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada303 Posts
April 07 2010 19:08 GMT
#347
On April 08 2010 03:54 Yamoth wrote:

You kind of suck at math...

old = 4(12a), 8(24a), 16(48a)
new = 10, 10, 20(50a)

Now lets see how the damage is compared over a period of time.
old non-armored = 4, 12, 28, 44, 60, 76, 92, 108
new non-armored+ 10, 20, 40, 80, 100, 120, 140, 200

old armored = 12, 36, 84, 132, 180, 228
new armored = 10, 20, 80, 130, 180, 230

So based on the math alone new void ray out damage old void ray on non-armored unit from the start and out damage armored after 5 seconds.

Now lets factor in the cost of the void ray, I will only do mineral since gas stays the same.

Mineral different mean that for the same mineral cost, you can get 5 old void ray or 4 new void ray. To make my life simple, I will simply multiply all the damage progression by 5 for old and 4 for new.

old non-armored = 20, 60, 140, 220, 300, 380
new non-armored = 40, 80, 160, 240, 320, 400

old armored = 60, 180, 420, 660, 900, 1140
new armored = 40, 80, 320, 520, 720, 920

So mineral for mineral, the new void ray stills do more damage to non-armored unit and take a hurting on armored unit.

However, if you factor in armor reduction and the fact that most void ray production is limited by gas and not so much mineral and me here too lazy to do more math. I would say that this is still for the most part a buff to void ray.


For future reference :D

And yeah my bad, the VR math is confusing XD
Only dead fish swim with the stream
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#348
On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:
Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way.

I see you are the type of player who would use such awesome unit for cheesing.
2SCV1cup
Profile Joined April 2010
69 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#349
i somehow feel that scv's should have 60hp again ...
CandleJack
Profile Joined March 2010
United States104 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#350
Am i correct in assuming that Terran will have to expand more to be viable? It seems that by decreasing mech build times without decreasing the cost they're trying to push Terran to be more aggressive about taking extra bases (to afford a bigger army), rather than just take your natural -> turtle to 200 food -> attack.
cosiant
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada616 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#351
Why are people complaining about Sentries, are the force fields really that strong? I mean, you have to take in to account that they do cost 100 gas, which is quite pricey early game.

I would also like to see a small buff to zealot speed, I mean they are melee units but their speed is lacking. Nothing too huge.
Member of the "Fuck yeah, Canata!" committee!
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#352
MECH TVZ HERE I COME :D
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
April 07 2010 19:09 GMT
#353
On April 08 2010 04:07 Floophead_III wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 03:56 NicolBolas wrote:
On April 08 2010 03:51 zomgzergrush wrote:
On April 08 2010 03:51 Alou wrote:
Why exactly are void rays nerfed in this? It seems more of just a change, rather than a simple nerf or buff. I think we need to try it some before we all jump on the raging bandwagon.

If a queen can kill a voidray or if hydras can pop out in time before 1 voidray rush kills the hatch, then all is good.


Perhaps you don't understand the full nature of this Void Ray "nerf."

Before, a Queen could kill a single VR one on one. This is no longer the case. The VR does much more damage to Queens in the lower stages. Once the Queen dies, the VR will be fully charged, and can immediately target the Hatch at maximum power.

So Terran players are going to have to get Marauders if they even smell Roaches coming from the Zerg.

And actually it's ridiculously easy for Z to deal with Voidrays - just build additional queens.


While a Hatchery is producing a Queen, it cannot also be making a Lair/Hive. So building a Queen delays your tech massively.


And to complement Incontrol's brilliant observation, I present the above.

Yes and we must LOVE the protoss! Just say it with me "WE LOVE THE GREAT AND ALL POWERFUL PROTOSS" "The Protoss is the best race and we shall betray all other races and join the all mighty protoss!" "FOR AUIR!"
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
ROOTslush
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada170 Posts
April 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#354
On April 08 2010 03:33 DeA wrote:
Yup, Hydralisks that cost 100/50, need Lair tech, have 80HP and 12 damage are so worth it now...

It's like they kept the Hydralisk from SC:BW and nerfed it completely.


Dont forget the 2 pop :|
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
April 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#355
is blizzard resetting the profiles along with the patch? and after this marauder nerf, I forsee way more air/mech play in tvz, and with hydras and roaches nerfed, now there is no counter for thors....
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-07 19:12:37
April 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#356
On April 08 2010 04:05 diehilde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2010 03:51 Zelniq wrote:
On April 08 2010 03:21 diehilde wrote:
in all honesty, jinro had the best tvz on the entire EU server with a strategy centered around thors. The only somewhat viable counter was a shitton of roaches. Now with Thor build time decreased and roaches substantially nerfed, plus the prior patch which made thor annihilate air I cant see anyone beating that strat.

how does -1 armor for roach matter vs thor? it helps the hellions a tiny bit vs roaches but theyre still not that good vs just tons of roaches. marauders previously did 18 damage to roaches and now do 19, not the biggest deal.

mass roach into broodlords still seems very very strong vs metal / bio/metal play

its not the -1 to armor which is the big thing against thors, but the 15 second decrease on thor build time.


I believe he was responding to this:

On April 08 2010 03:21 diehilde wrote:
Now with Thor build time decreased and roaches substantially nerfed,


And I agree with him. The 'substantial nerf' to roaches doesn't affect thor v roach at all.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
April 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#357
On April 08 2010 04:09 CandleJack wrote:
Am i correct in assuming that Terran will have to expand more to be viable? It seems that by decreasing mech build times without decreasing the cost they're trying to push Terran to be more aggressive about taking extra bases (to afford a bigger army), rather than just take your natural -> turtle to 200 food -> attack.

Obviously, people at Blizzard saw game one of Flash vs Movie.
bountyface
Profile Joined February 2010
United States95 Posts
April 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#358
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right?
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
April 07 2010 19:11 GMT
#359
On April 08 2010 04:09 ohN wrote:
MECH TVZ HERE I COME :D


How are you going to mech against baneligns ? helions get raped by them, Thors most likely too, and tanks might take a few out before they fall.
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
April 07 2010 19:11 GMT
#360
Don't quite understand void ray buff, but other than that this patch should be interesting.
TT_TT I think kulas ravine is going to be a bitch to play on now, faster thors dropping on the high ground
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 52 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 630
Hui .209
ProTech122
LamboSC2 106
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33918
Calm 7161
Jaedong 2012
Horang2 1781
Mini 514
firebathero 441
BeSt 427
Stork 407
EffOrt 364
Soma 363
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 295
Snow 280
actioN 276
ggaemo 240
Rush 183
hero 106
Sharp 102
Leta 82
[sc1f]eonzerg 62
JYJ 60
Hyun 45
sorry 28
Backho 26
Hm[arnc] 25
scan(afreeca) 19
Sacsri 18
HiyA 17
soO 15
Sexy 15
Rock 14
GoRush 13
Shine 12
yabsab 12
Icarus 9
zelot 6
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
Gorgc6900
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3681
pashabiceps2302
zeus528
markeloff132
edward100
Other Games
B2W.Neo1399
Lowko369
crisheroes303
XaKoH 157
Fuzer 149
djWHEAT68
ArmadaUGS65
Livibee63
QueenE53
oskar29
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco3966
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2034
League of Legends
• Nemesis3631
• Jankos2327
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
2h 18m
Bly vs TBD
TriGGeR vs Lambo
Replay Cast
10h 18m
RSL Revival
20h 18m
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
1d 5h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.