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On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:02 nodule wrote:
say it with me, people: THE VOID RAY WAS NOT NERFED
It gained significantly more initial (stage 1+2) dmg, especially against non-armoured units, and does more average damage over time to all units.
It was also made slightly more expensive, mineral-wise, and takes a bit more dmg.
Just because there are some relatively small negative changes to a unit does not mean it was nerfed. Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way.
Mhmm... I guess the DMG against the Queen is higher, cuz queen isn't Armored right?
But the -1 Armor is gonna be a really big deal against the queen which is firing 9 DMG with fast attack-speed and the 50 more mins will be quite annoying as well.
But other than rushing being less powerful (as written before, VR-rushes weren't that good against Z that actually scouted anyways IMHO) you can now incorporate a Starport better into a standard build with using Phoenix to scout and kill overlords and VR to defend against Lings/Roaches etc.
It's also not that necessary anymore to go Immortals and you won't get raped so hard by Muta-techswitch if you have a starport and didn't invest a crapload of ressources in Immortals, which can't shoot up in the air. These are little changes, but they could have very positive effects on the diversity of strategies IMHO.
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On April 08 2010 04:10 bountyface wrote:
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right?
Just wall off till slow is reasearched. Terrans always wall anyway
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On April 08 2010 04:09 CandleJack wrote:
Am i correct in assuming that Terran will have to expand more to be viable? It seems that by decreasing mech build times without decreasing the cost they're trying to push Terran to be more aggressive about taking extra bases (to afford a bigger army), rather than just take your natural -> turtle to 200 food -> attack.
Blizzard wanted to stop turtling! Why do u think they weakened the tank? Stop thinking of BW SCII IS A DIFFERENT GAME! U hear me? A different game!
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On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:02 nodule wrote:
say it with me, people: THE VOID RAY WAS NOT NERFED
It gained significantly more initial (stage 1+2) dmg, especially against non-armoured units, and does more average damage over time to all units.
It was also made slightly more expensive, mineral-wise, and takes a bit more dmg.
Just because there are some relatively small negative changes to a unit does not mean it was nerfed. Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way.
Not sure if you're simply stupid or just dumb. Seeing how the queen is NOT an armored unit and the void ray does increased damage to non-armored unit and does more damage to ALL after 5 seconds. I don't really see the damage nerf anywhere in here.
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On April 08 2010 04:12 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:10 bountyface wrote:
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right? Just wall off till slow is reasearched. Terrans always wall anyway
That's not the point. Terran shouldn't always have to rely on walling every game. They'd be the only race forced to.
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Generally disappointed with the patch. I'm not sure I like these "tweak 2 item" patches. There are bigger issues to address. Zerg doesn't need nerfs without new improvements to their diversity.
I feel like I can do 101 different things with terran. But playing zerg, my ground army options are severely lacking (ling roach bling hydra ultra infest). Let's knock off the last two because ultras have their own problems and while I try to use infestors EVERY game, their short range and disappointing 36 damage over time (owned by medivacs) makes me feel like 4 more hydras would do more damage for the cost.
That leaves us with the excellent selection of zerglings, banelings, roaches and hydras. Our air choices are muta, corrupter (would rather have mutas except vs BC, carrier and mothership) and broodlords.
I'm all for keeping an open mind and maximizing your possibilities with all the tools at your disposal. But let's face it, zerg has 6 units to choose from with 3 of those being broodlord (way too high on the tech tree) and then the 2 lings.
Boring marauder "nerf" that does nothing to address the power of this unit. They are a staple item in any army and the slow is certainly not the game-breaking aspect once mid game hits and large battles start taking place.
Here's to hoping the "content" patch actually adds to the game and not just the utilities around it.
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Protoss is going to dominate now
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On April 08 2010 04:10 bountyface wrote:
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right?
Zeal/Sentry is going to own hard against incompetent players. Anyway, I am done with this thread. We need to actually play the game with the new patch before we can conclude such things.
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On April 08 2010 03:56 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 03:51 zomgzergrush wrote:On April 08 2010 03:51 Alou wrote:
Why exactly are void rays nerfed in this? It seems more of just a change, rather than a simple nerf or buff. I think we need to try it some before we all jump on the raging bandwagon. If a queen can kill a voidray or if hydras can pop out in time before 1 voidray rush kills the hatch, then all is good. Perhaps you don't understand the full nature of this Void Ray "nerf." Before, a Queen could kill a single VR one on one. This is no longer the case. The VR does much more damage to Queens in the lower stages. Once the Queen dies, the VR will be fully charged, and can immediately target the Hatch at maximum power. So Zerg players are going to have to get Spore Crawlers if they even smell VRs coming from the Protoss. Show nested quote +And actually it's ridiculously easy for Z to deal with Voidrays - just build additional queens. While a Hatchery is producing a Queen, it cannot also be making a Lair/Hive. So building a Queen delays your tech massively.
No idea what kind of tard VR's you faced, but a VR going straight for a queen wins easily 1v1.
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On April 08 2010 04:12 Spartan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:12 Marradron wrote:On April 08 2010 04:10 bountyface wrote:
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right? Just wall off till slow is reasearched. Terrans always wall anyway That's not the point. Terran shouldn't always have to rely on walling every game. They'd be the only race forced to.
Uhum... Protoss! We have wall-ins!
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On April 08 2010 04:12 Yamoth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:06 ZergZergling wrote:On April 08 2010 04:02 nodule wrote:
say it with me, people: THE VOID RAY WAS NOT NERFED
It gained significantly more initial (stage 1+2) dmg, especially against non-armoured units, and does more average damage over time to all units.
It was also made slightly more expensive, mineral-wise, and takes a bit more dmg.
Just because there are some relatively small negative changes to a unit does not mean it was nerfed. Void rays are much worse now. Before the patch opening with void rays was almost decent vs zerg, now it costs 50 more minerals, does less damage to the queen, and takes more damage from the queen. It's worse in every way. Not sure if you're simply stupid or just dumb. Seeing how the queen is NOT an armored unit and the void ray does increased damage to non-armored unit and does more damage to ALL after 5 seconds. I don't really see the damage nerf anywhere in here.
The thing we have to know is just what will win the fight: Queen (cuz reduced armor of VR's) or VR (cuz more DMG against Queen), right?
@zomgzergrush: I guess queen can win against VR if the queen kites on the creep. At least 2 queen win easily against 2 VR's, that I'm sure of - just recently saw tons of reps were Toss attacked with 2-3 VR's and they constantly got raped by 2 queens.
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the first 10 pages ppl r asking about the void ray nerf, i was one of them
the next 10 pages ppl explain that it was actually not a nerf, just a change
its funny how fast we post about something just because were so thrilled of this patch before even thinking what really happened, again, i was one of those ppl xD
i think tvz is gonna get alot easier now, tvp is gonna get harder
really awesome patch however
they destroyed my 1rax fe in patch 6, and now they destroyed demuslims marauder fe. i wonder what we will do now in tvp ^^
my guess is reaper fe into marines
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On April 08 2010 04:12 Spartan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:12 Marradron wrote:On April 08 2010 04:10 bountyface wrote:
so everybody realizes how hard Sentry/Zealot pushes are going to own early game, right? Just wall off till slow is reasearched. Terrans always wall anyway That's not the point. Terran shouldn't always have to rely on walling every game. They'd be the only race forced to.
because this is the only race who can do it and don't have to kill a building to get out with a thight wall
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Blizzard wanted to stop turtling! Why do u think they weakened the tank? Stop thinking of BW SCII IS A DIFFERENT GAME! U hear me? A different game!
Do you really want every single game with a terran in it to be one base gameplay? In broodwar people didn't fast expo every single game, and while I agree that aggressive play isn't necessarily a bad thing, fast expo should still be a strong option, so every game doesn't turn out the same.
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On April 08 2010 04:13 Kare wrote:
Protoss is going to dominate now
I know  and we were already dominating before! We'll just dominate 20% more of the time! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!
+ Show Spoiler +Yes I have just gone insane with power!
+ Show Spoiler +MWAHAHAHAHAHA MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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They changed the units I wanted to see changed but not I am still not sure if this is the best way to do it.
marauders won't be such a pain in the ass in early game now, but the patch changed nothing about them being massed in mid/late game 
i am interested to see how the mech changes affect the game.
roach change pretty good actually.
but the hydra nerf!? were they that strong. it feels like they will be crushed pretty fast now.
dunno why they changed the void ray. i guess the change is not bad though.
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On April 08 2010 04:12 3FFA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 04:09 CandleJack wrote:
Am i correct in assuming that Terran will have to expand more to be viable? It seems that by decreasing mech build times without decreasing the cost they're trying to push Terran to be more aggressive about taking extra bases (to afford a bigger army), rather than just take your natural -> turtle to 200 food -> attack. Blizzard wanted to stop turtling! Why do u think they weakened the tank? Stop thinking of BW SCII IS A DIFFERENT GAME! U hear me? A different game!
So you're agreeing with me? Great. I didn't say it was bad, in fact I think it's a good thing. I didn't play any competitive BW so I don't really know what you're yelling about.
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No Immortal changes? No matter how quickly Tanks and Thors come out, they're still going to be largely useless vs Protoss (and not just due to Immortals, mind you). Terran early game is now even worse than ever, and I'm guessing people might actually exploit that more often now.
However, pretty huge TvZ buffs all around. Hydras and Roaches less powerful, tanks/thors come out faster. Still going to dread playing TvP though.
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its ok to nerf roaches but for gods sake give me my lurkers back, im getting tired of losing to wc3 player all in 5 gates 1 base strats....
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EPT
