Gamestar Interviews Dustin Browder

We are looking into bringing the Lurker back, either at some point in the future or if we felt that it had a role to play. Right now, there are simply too many units stepping on its role.

Starcraft 2
In our interview, the Starcraft 2 lead designer Dustin Browder talks about LAN and offline modes, new features and unexpected rushes.
Dustin BrowderDustin Browder In Starcraft 2 closed beta we have already fought countless battles between Terrans, Protoss and Zerg. Though Starcraft 2 essentially plays like its predecessor (including the add-on Brood War) with a couple of new units and abilities, there are some important differences. In our exclusive interview the lead designer Dustin Browder explains the ideas behind the changes. In addition, he finally gets down to business about the LAN mode and whether players will have to be online all the time.


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GameStar:
Will there be a LAN mode?

Dustin Browder:
No.
GameStar:
Why not?

Dustin Browder:
We are trying to encourage players to participate in a single online community. For that purpose we have implemented a lot of stuff like achievements and friend lists. We think that will be a much more positive experience for players. We really want to push our players into a single online community.
GameStar:
Will there be an offline mode for the singleplayer campaign?

Dustin Browder:
Yes.
GameStar:
So you can log into Battlenet and log out again to play offline?

Dustin Browder:
I believe that's how it works, but I don't know the exact user interface. The offline mode is designed for when you've lost your internet connection or when something has gone wrong with your machine. In offline mode, you won't get any achievements. There will also be online save games that you won't have access to. We really want to encourage people to play connected. But if that is impossible, they can play offline.
Protoss are beaming reinforcements into a pylon's energy field.Protoss are beaming reinforcements into a pylon's energy field. GameStar:
Has anything unexpected happened in beta until now?

Dustin Browder:
Yes, there have been some surprises. We've had some complaints about how our revealing system works in 2v2 games if you lose your Command Center, your Nexus or your Hatchery. We've also heard concerns about Starcraft 2 being a little too hard countered with a lot of systems not being muddy enough. There was a lot of muddy gameplay in the original Starcraft but there was a lot of hard counters as well. So we think it is primarily a ratio issue which we are going to adjust. So there will definitely be a lot of changes. Our biggest surprises so far have been the rushes we didn't expect. There were really mean rushes that were unstoppable at some or even at all skill levels, for example in Terran versus Protoss games. Surprisingly, the Zerg rushes were not the worst thing we had to deal with.


GameStar:
So what are you doing about that?

Dustin Browder:
We are identifying the rushes that we are not happy with and we are slowly stamping them out. And we will keep looking at the rushes. But we DO want some rushes, they are an important part of the game. We allow them and we encourage them. But a rush should be as easy to block as it is to do. So we are trying to get rid of the rushes that are super easy to do and very difficult to block.
Terrans, Protoss and Zerg clash for the final battle. As you can see, the camera does not zoom out very far.
Terrans, Protoss and Zerg clash for the final battle. As you can see, the camera does not zoom out very far.
GameStar:
The camera does not zoom out very far. Are you considering to change the zoom level?

Dustin Browder:
We are not going to change the zoom level. This is a complex problem, it's not just about seeing more. If we zoom out too far, the game gets too difficult to micro. If we zoom out too far, our units lose a lot of personality. If we zoom out too far, the performance will suffer and the game's frame rate will drop substantially on lower-end systems. And if we zoom in too close, you won't see enough of the game. So we took a very careful balancing act where we considered all these factors. Can I see the art? Can I micro? Can I successfully see enough of the screen? What's the performance of the game like? Then we made a decision about what's the zoom level going to be. We worked for years on the zoom level, so this is what we are going to go with.
Units like Warp Rays do a lot of damage.Units like Warp Rays do a lot of damage. GameStar:
Starcraft 2 feels a bit faster than the original Starcraft.

Dustin Browder:
I don't know if we sped it up that much. It's definitely a fast-paced game and we have some units that do a lot of damage. So the game may feel a little faster than the initial Starcraft in that respect. But that's just one side of it, sometimes it feels faster, sometimes it feels slower. For example, fighting Roach versus Roach feels really slow. But when you are fighting Colossus versus Marines, that feels really fast. So I think it's a perception issue. It was never our intention to make Starcraft 2 play faster. It was our intention to make it play very quickly though.
GameStar:
The game feeling also feels faster because of the new transport mechanics: the pylon teleport of the Protoss and the Zerg Nydus Network. So both factions can move troops very quickly. What is the intention behind that?

Dustin Browder:
The transport mechanics in the original Starcraft felt too similar to one another. Only the Zerg were a little bit different with their overlords being also their farms. But the shuttle was the same as the dropship in many ways. So we saw this as an option to create more distinction between the races.
Reapers jumping a cliff.Reapers jumping a cliff. GameStar:
The Reaper, the Colossus and the Stalker are able to traverse cliffs. Why did you implement that mechanic?

Dustin Browder:
We were looking for options to use terrain and cliffs in different ways. The Stalkers' »Blink« ability was never designed to be used for cliff walking. It was designed to improve ground mobility. But obviously with an Observer or a Phoenix the Stalkers can be used as cliff walkers. The general idea was to create more use out of terrain and to get more gameplay out of it. It is the same thing as with the line of sight blockers, the destructible rocks and the watchtowers.


GameStar:
Why did you decide to improve the terrain in that way? Did you think that the maps were too boring in the initial Starcraft?

Dustin Browder:
We only have so many directions we can go with Starcraft 2 while still being true to the legacy of the original title. So we wanted to add more gameplay and more choices for the players, but we didn't want to add more complexity. We have added some automation which allows us to add a little bit more complexity because the game is doing more for the players in certain areas. But we didn't want to have 20 units per faction because that would be too much to memorize. So adding more gameplay to the terrain was an option to add more choice and more strategy without making the game to difficult to control or manage.
You can clear the fog of war by capturing watchtowers.You can clear the fog of war by capturing watchtowers. GameStar:
You mentioned the automation which brings us to our next topic. Why did you implement automining?

Dustin Browder:
We saw that as a basic thing to keep up with the rest of the industry. Physically moving a worker does not create an interesting choice for the player, because it's the same all the time. We are comfortable with that kind of automation. We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks.

GameStar:
But professional players don't like too much automation.

Dustin Browder:
That's why we don't over-automate if we can avoid it. And we certainly don't automate if that would lead to dumb decisions by the player. For example, when you select barracks you have to toggle between those with tech labs and those with reactors. If we hadn't done that, it might encourage players to make bad choices. They might hit the »build Marine« key over and over and over again, so they get a bunch of marines though they maybe intend to get Marauders. That's different from the automining, where it's clear what a player wants nine out of ten times. And if you want to move a worker to build or repair, you can easily do that too. Our automation is used to give the players good decisions instead of just a lot of klicks.
The Terrans attack a destructible rock.The Terrans attack a destructible rock. GameStar:
You already mentioned that players can select multiple buildings. Does this rule also apply to that?

Dustin Browder:
Absolutely. When we first experimented with multiple building selection, you could select nine Hatcheries and all their lava and just hit the »z« key to get a thousand Zerglings. That was the simplest version of it. But when we started playing we realized again that this level of automation was useful but was leading to bad decisions by players. It was very difficult to build five Zerglings, three Overlords and ten Roaches. So now you can still select all the larva. But you also have to make an individual selection per larva what you want to build.
GameStar:
Though we've got automining and multiple building selection, it feels like there is more micro management in Starcraft 2. Or are we imagining things?

Dustin Browder:
We haven't done a study to determine how many klicks are happening. With automining, you click less. At the same time, we've got a few more unit abilities than we had in the original Starcraft, so that makes a little bit more clicking. With multiple building selection, it's less, with our new economy mechanics it's more ... I don't know what the sum total is. Starcraft 2 is definitely a difficult game to master. But is it more or less than the first Starcraft? We have to wait and see.

GameStar:
Speaking about the new economy mechanics like the abilities of the Zerg queen: What was the general idea behind those?

Dustin Browder:
We want Starcraft to be very much about the tension between your army and your base. Warcraft 3 was largely focussed on your army, which felt right for that game. But in Starcraft, base building is an important part of the game, so being able to manage you economy is a key skill for your success. So while our automation was good and positive, it removed a lot of focus from your base. Instead of taking out all the automation and making you do more klicks, we thought it would be more enjoyable to give you more interesting choices within your base. That's why we implemented the economy mechanics to allow for new strategies.
GameStar:
In earlier versions the Protoss used the Dark Pylon to boost their economy. Why was it removed?

Dustin Browder:
It provided a little bit of complexity for not enough benefits.
GameStar:
Instead you added the »Chrono Boost« to the Nexus. Did you think the Protoss were too slow at the beginning of the game?

Dustin Browder:
We wanted a reason for Protoss players to focus on their base. We tried a lot of economy mechanics for the Protoss, and this was the one that provided the most interesting strategic choices. Because it forces you to choose between accelerating production at your nexus, gateway, stargate or robotic factory, or boosting upgrades at your cybernetics core or forge. So the strategic choice is not whether to use the chrono boost but what to use it on. Almost every building in your base becomes an option. This is one of our goals for Starcraft 2: Players who want to focus on their base get a benefit from it. And players who want to focus on their armies get a benefit from that. Focussing on both is very difficult, so it makes the game very hard to master.
The Terran nuke will reappear in Starcraft 2.The Terran nuke will reappear in Starcraft 2. GameStar:
In the initial Starcraft certain units were doing less damage to certain other units. Now there is a specific amount of bonus damage. Why did you change that system?

Dustin Browder:
In the original Starcraft there were different weapon types that did 100 percent damage to certain unit types, 75 percent damage to other unit types and 50 percent damage to other unit types. The units were divided into small, medium and large. We wanted to make that system a lot more transparent and obvious. Before, you had to be a hardcore player or surf the web to understand how the system worked. In Starcraft 2, we put the damage modifiers in the user interface and simplified them a little more. So instead of doing 50 or 75 or 100 percent damage, we added a single damage bonus against certain unit types. That makes it more clear to the player which units to use against which other units.
GameStar:
You also changed the resource system be adding high-yield crystals.

Dustin Browder:
The high-yield crystals are there to create more strategic choice for players. We are placing them at locations that are difficult to get to or difficult to defend. So it's up to the player to decide which expansion he is going to go for after he's taken the expansion close to his base. Do you want to take another expansion that is relatively safe? Or do you take one that's worth a lot more in resources but that's also very difficult to defend? Do you want to commit to destroying the rocks to get access to the high-yield expansion? That might take your army into a position were it's vulnerable or unable to defend your base and threaten the enemy. So the high-yield crystals create a lot more choice for the players.
New: Yellow crystals and dual vespin geysers.New: Yellow crystals and dual vespin geysers. GameStar:
And what about the two vespin geysers at every base?

Dustin Browder:
We did that for the same reasons. You now get the additional choice about when to grab the second source of gas. When to build the second Refinery is a very important strategic choice in the early game, especially when it comes to some of the rushing strategies. Building the first and second refinery can also give clues to other players that are scouting your base. So, if I see a Terran with two Barracks and two Refineries, I can guess there might be some reapers in my future. Whereas with a Protoss players it could mean that he intends to get the stalkers a little more quickly. On the other hand, Terrans with only a single refinery are not really serious about the reaper rush. So the double refineries give more choices to the players, they it also give away their intent.
GameStar:
The Terran Thor has undergone many changes in development history. Now it's an artillery unit with anti-air defense. We like to call it the mammoth tank of Starcraft. But with the siege tank, the Terrans already got an artillery unit. So what's the purpose of the Thor?

Dustin Browder:
The Thor's the Thor, man! It has a lot of uses, because it is an all-round unit. But you also pay for that. You can compare the Thor to the Battle Cruiser. The Cruiser has got the Yamato Canon which makes it a siege weapon. At the same time, the Cruiser is powerful against ground and air units. But it is expensive, so you pay for its being all-round. Like the Battle Cruiser, the Thor has weaknesses. It is very vulnerable against many small units. If you're up against a lot of zerglings, you're going to have a bad day with your Thors.

GameStar:
So the Thor is the Battle Cruiser of the ground.

Dustin Browder:
Yes. Or if you were mean you could call it the »super goliath«, because it's a very powerful anti-air weapon. I build it for a couple of reasons. I'm using it largely against other Terran players where its all-round nature helps me against marauders and banshees which are a pretty significant threat in Terran versus Terran games. I have also gotten some use out of the Thor against Zerg opponents who go for Roaches and Mutalisks. Because the Thor's powerful cannons can break a roach line and its anti-air-missiles can thrash a Mutalisk threat. But when I'm facing a lot of Zerglings or a lot of marines or a large force of zealots and immortals, I'm not feeling a lot of love for the Thor. Still, it's got a lot of uses. So if you have a lot of factory units and a lot of money, it's never a bad idea to build some Thors.
GameStar:
Another unit that has changed a lot is the Protoss Mothership. Aren't you afraid it will end up too powerful?

Dustin Browder:
We're not seeing that right now. But if we do, we will certainly nerf it. It depends on your skill level how powerful you find the Mothership. At the gold and platinum levels we're not really seeing the Mothership be that dangerous. Though it's quite fun to see it come into play, but it is not built that often. On the silver and lower levels, it's a much more significant threat, but that's true to a lot of our units, for example for Battle Cruisers or Carriers. They're not much of a threat on certain levels of play but on other levels they're very dangerous. So if we find out that the mothership is really ruining some level of play, if all cooper games end with mothership destruction, then it will be nerfed. But we are not seeing that right now.
In Starcraft 2, Firebats will only appear in solo mode.In Starcraft 2, Firebats will only appear in solo mode. GameStar:
How does a single very powerful unit fit into the philosophy of Starcraft?

Dustin Browder:
The philosophy of Starcraft is a little bit of everything. We have no core philosophy of »You can't do this« and »You must do that«. Our fans certainly might see it like that sometimes. But Starcraft is a game of hard counters and of muddy counters. In the initial Starcraft I could point to Archons, Ultralisks and Firebats, all of which are really hard counters. I could also point to Dragoons, Hydralisks, Zealots and Marines that are very muddy counters. So the original Starcraft had tiny units like marines that die in dozens. And Starcraft also had very dangerous units like battle cruisers that were very difficult to bring down. So the philosophy for Starcraft is that there is no philosophy for Starcraft. We are just doing lots of different things to keep the game feeling fresh and fun.
GameStar:
Still, there have never been super units.

Dustin Browder:
The question is: Is there room in Starcraft for one race to have a super unit? I think there is. We don't have any other super weapons except for nukes. And even nukes have their rules and are challenging to use. So they don't match the high range and firepower of a C&C super weapon. The same holds true for the Mothership: Compared to the super units in other games this super unit is very easy to kill. It doesn't even have the survivability of a Warcraft 3 hero. So it still fits the rules of Starcraft.
GameStar:
Zerg fans are complaining that you removed the lurker.

Dustin Browder:
The Lurker was removed because there simply were so many other units stepping on its role that it wasn't seeing a lot of use. Though it was used in certain areas, there was too much overlap. The Roach and the Infestor both use the burrow trait in far more interesting ways. And Banelings are used for splash attacks. As we were getting closer to beta the Lurker had been push to tier 3 and it turned into some kind of artillery unit. But his cloak was almost completely ineffective, because at tier 3 there are simply too many detectors in play for its cloak to be meaningful. So on tier 3 he was simply some kind of a funny gun.
Like the Arbiter, the Mothership can teleport troops to its location as well as cloak them. This screen was captured from a replay.
Like the Arbiter, the Mothership can teleport troops to its location as well as cloak them. This screen was captured from a replay.
GameStar:
And on tier 2, it was useless.

Dustin Browder:
Exactly. When we moved him back down to tier 2, he was useless compared to the roach and the Baneling. But still the Lurker is an interesting weapon; I love its lying damage. And I miss its ability to stop the game. Like when I'm rushing on the zerg and ... Oh my god, there are three Lurkers, I guess I've to stop and we're all going to tech a bit right now. We are looking into bringing the Lurker back, either at some point in the future or if we felt that it had a role to play. Right now, there are simply too many units stepping on its role. Our goal for Starcraft is not having the maximum number of units possible, but the minimum. We are not trying to make the biggest game, we are trying to make the smallest, best game.
GameStar:
So you're always looking to cut?

Dustin Browder:
Right. For example, the Archon was on the chopping block for a long time. And it still could be on the chopping block if we decide we don't need it any more. That's not the case right now, so the archon is still in.
The Lurker was removed.The Lurker was removed. GameStar:
One feature that didn't survive the chopping block is the upgrade system of the Battle Cruiser. In earlier versions, you could chose between three different weapons upgrades. Now we've only got the yamato cannon.

Dustin Browder:
Because the upgrades were not good enough. We do not want any stuff that overlaps with other units or is useless to play with. And the Battle Cruiser upgrades were not very useful at the end of the day. They saw some use at the silver and copper skill levels, but to the more advanced players it was yamato or nothing. So we noticed that the upgrades made the unit more complicated but not any better. We threw them out in order to make the Cruiser cleaner and easier to understand. But we keep them for solo play, so you get to use them there. In solo play we are less concerned about making the game really tight because the player has more time to deal with stuff, and we want that level of customization.
GameStar:
One thing we wondered about is that you moved the broodlord upgrade from the mutalisk to the corruptor. Why?

Dustin Browder:
We noticed that the corruptor needed a way to stay in the game after I swept the sky. So if I fly around with my corruptors and kill everybody, what's use are these corruptors any more? The same applies to the Protoss Phoenix: What do I do if I have killed everything in the sky? That's why we added the anti-grav ability to the Phoenix so it remains useful. Without some mechanic to give the unit a way to »recycle« itself, air-to-air fliers become very difficult to use.
The Dark Pylon was removed as well.The Dark Pylon was removed as well. GameStar:
If you build too many of them you can lose the game though you have won in the air.

Dustin Browder:
Exactly. After the Phoenix we looked at the Zerg and said: »Oh my god, there is a very easy way for the Zerg to recycle their units as they can turn into something else.« The Mutalisk does not need a way to recycle. If I have 25 Mutalisks, that's really good! If I have 25 corruptors, I can lose the game. So it makes sense to have the Zerg recycle their anti-air unit into something else. And that is the brute lord.
GameStar:
One recent change concerned the Zerg infestor. At the beginning of beta it could drain enemy units to replenish its energy. Now it spawns infested Terrans. What's your guess as to which mechanic will stay in the game?

Dustin Browder:
Maybe it will be the one we have right now, maybe it will be something else. What we have in the beta is the best we have seen yet, but we might learn something new. If we don't like the infestor, we will change it.
GameStar:
Thanks for your time.