EPTSome Thoughts on Supply Drop - Page 3
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On March 27 2010 15:11 Funchucks wrote: I think it's just that MULEs are cooler and easier to understand. The advantages of calling down supply are subtle. I expect supply drops to feature regularly in optimized build orders, since they give you a minute+ timing advantage. One way to think of it is that, building 3 permanent SCVs with the time and money you save by supply dropping is obviously more profitable on any timescale than making one MULE which will disappear in 90 seconds. MULEs without pumping SCVs doesn't make sense (with obvious exceptions, such as not needing supply or being saturated). I suppose you're right. I guess I'll just wait for people to optimize their builds before I start seeing more supply drops. It's nice to see I'm not the only one that isn't a supply-drop hater, though. Thanks, everybody. Especially you Funchucks. :D | ||
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lepape
Canada557 Posts
On March 27 2010 13:45 P00RKID wrote: A good use of a supply drop: When the enemy targets and kills off some of your supply depots, dropping you into Red supply, it is better to use Supply drop so you don't have a stall in Unit Production. Sure, you could use mule, and wait for SCVs to build more supply depots, but if you NEED those units SOONER than LATER, supply drop is your fast fix. No need in having extra money from the mule if you can't spend it from supply block. Another good use that might work would be to insta rebuild your wall-in, as soon as your opponent kills the first depot to save a few more seconds. (For example, versus a baneling rush) | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
On March 27 2010 15:15 ComradeDover wrote: I suppose you're right. I guess I'll just wait for people to optimize their builds before I start seeing more supply drops. It's nice to see I'm not the only one that isn't a supply-drop hater, though. Thanks, everybody. Especially you Funchucks. :D The problem is that the supply drop isn't really a + timing advantage, mules give you more money than supply in any game before you get mined out, which is ALOT of the time. | ||
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mcneebs
Canada391 Posts
On March 27 2010 15:16 lepape wrote: Another good use that might work would be to insta rebuild your wall-in, as soon as your opponent kills the first depot to save a few more seconds. (For example, versus a baneling rush) It won't work, it has to be placed on an EXISTING depo, you can't drop it once it's been ruined. I'm not sure, however, if dropping a depo upgrade refills its health though. | ||
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ELESSAR
Bulgaria173 Posts
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On March 27 2010 15:21 Tinithor wrote: The problem is that the supply drop isn't really a + timing advantage It does. Read the thread. Under the right circumstances, supply drop can save you about 150 minerals before your MULE has even been called. It takes close to a minute for a MULE to bring in 150. 150 minerals a minute earlier can be a pretty big difference in build timing, especially if you're rushing tech. | ||
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
Does it have to be used ón already built Supply Depots, or can you make it anywhere? If you could toss 'em around freely I could see some very interesting uses. Like putting them up in expansions so you don't have to scan to see if an expo is being taken, or if you want to immidiatly stop your opponent from landing his CC at his natural  | ||
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squ1d
United States178 Posts
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On March 27 2010 17:01 3nickma wrote: How does the Calldown Supply mechanic actually work? Haven't tried it since I play Zerg. Does it have to be used ón already built Supply Depots, or can you make it anywhere? If you could toss 'em around freely I could see some very interesting uses. Like putting them up in expansions so you don't have to scan to see if an expo is being taken, or if you want to immidiatly stop your opponent from landing his CC at his natural It has to be cast on an existing Supply Depot, and gives it a permanent visual change and status buff which provides an extra 8 supply, but doesn't change hp/armor/anything else. I think it takes a second or two to take effect after casting, but nothing too major. | ||
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Spartan
United States2030 Posts
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
On March 27 2010 17:05 ComradeDover wrote: It has to be cast on an existing Supply Depot, and gives it a permanent visual change and status buff which provides an extra 8 supply, but doesn't change hp/armor/anything else. I think it takes a second or two to take effect after casting, but nothing too major. Oh okay Them it doesn't matter. Maybe that should be changed? Think a cool idea in a TvT would be to engage an keep the opponent busy whole dropping a Supply Depot in his main for scout Maybe a little enemy coloured blip on the minimap would be noticeable. Otherwisw just make sure there's so enemy units to kill it and it would work like an unseen Changeling But all that doesn't matter anyway as it is now. | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On March 27 2010 17:22 3nickma wrote: Oh okay Them it doesn't matter. Maybe that should be changed? Think a cool idea in a TvT would be to engage an keep the opponent busy whole dropping a Supply Depot in his main for scout Maybe a little enemy coloured blip on the minimap would be noticeable. Otherwisw just make sure there's so enemy units to kill it and it would work like an unseen Changeling But all that doesn't matter anyway as it is now. To just have it create a free, regular supply depot at a target location? Maybe. I don't know. I'm picturing some epic supply walls being dropped in a way similar to how protoss would use Force Field. I doubt that's going to get implemented. To be honest I think the time for such sweeping changes has passed. I'm really trying to approach this from the perspective of a player, trying to figure out how best to use the ability, not how best to change it, you know? | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
MULE just isn't a great macro gimmick when juxtaposed with scan. Chrono boost and queen both let you get MORE workers, which are permanent. They also have benefits to actual unit production. 2 boosts gets a colossus faster than I can make a reaper. A queen lets you build units at a ridiculous rate. Terran has no such option - they have to choose between scans (when P has obs and Z has speed overlords / overseers) and economy (when P and Z have superior macro mechanics, without sacrificing anything). Sacrificing the short term income for a scan can have legit tactical benefits, but there is no situation early on other than a very specific (and probably all in) rush timing. | ||
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RatherGood
Canada147 Posts
People mostly talk about Supply Depot is used defensively. I think, when people begin to understand timing attacks better, it'll really shine as an offensive tool. The thing is, Starcraft is all about windows of opportunity. The faster you can get into those windows, when they're open, the more successful you will be. Supply Depot gives you a time advantage at the cost of mineral efficiency over time. There is unquestionably periods in games where few extra, immediate minerals can change the course of things instead of more minerals gathered over a longer period of time. I think it can be looked at like this: you don't need the extra minerals if you can make a push or attack more effective at a specific period of time. The extra effectiveness of your attack pays for itself. Again, the question is, do you have the timings down to make this effective? | ||
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RatherGood
Canada147 Posts
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MeruFM
United States167 Posts
I feel like the fact that it doubles as a low level crutch is just a plus for blizzard. One hypothetical example would be fast expanding. While a mule can gather mineral faster, a command center up 2 SCV build times faster is better in the long run. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
On March 27 2010 17:48 MeruFM wrote: Supply drop is absolutely a very high level play item. Their arguing with KESPA and trying to make it the premiere E-sports game shows their dedication. I feel like the fact that it doubles as a low level crutch is just a plus for blizzard. One hypothetical example would be fast expanding. While a mule can gather mineral faster, a command center up 2 SCV build times faster is better in the long run. I can't understand this post, can someone explain? I'm pretty sure you would have the money for an expansion faster if you used mule rather than just supply drop. I honestly do NOT see how supply drop would be good in any sort of timing push. More money from mules means more units which is what a timing push is all about right? Maybe if at the very end right before you pushed you would use it for that last few minerals right before your attack but that seems about it. | ||
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