EPTSome Thoughts on Supply Drop - Page 8
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zealing
Canada806 Posts
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
ps: did dubble post to bump | ||
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yB.TeH
Germany413 Posts
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CheAse
Canada919 Posts
early timing attacks new protoss strat to drop immortals to snipe depos | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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Kinmaul
United States104 Posts
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:46 Kinmaul wrote: Mule is 50 energy and worth ~270 minerals. Apply a little math and we can see that it is worth 5.4 minerals per energy. If the total cost of a depot is 150 minerals (100 cost + 50 mining time) then it's only worth 3 minerals per energy. Now if we reduced the energy cost of supply drop to 30 energy it's worth 5 minerals per energy. Much more reasonable, in fact I might make a post on the b.net suggestion forums. Damn it, people. Read the thread. It's like half the thread is, "I didn't read the thread, but here's why I think MULEs are awesome and nobody should calldown supply ever: MULEs make more money." Yes, MULE brings in a larger amount of minerals tomorrow. Supply drop saves you a smaller amount of minerals yesterday. The yesterday/tomorrow thing also matters, it's not just the larger/smaller thing. | ||
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:46 Kinmaul wrote: Mule is 50 energy and worth ~270 minerals. Apply a little math and we can see that it is worth 5.4 minerals per energy. If the total cost of a depot is 150 minerals (100 cost + 50 mining time) then it's only worth 3 minerals per energy. Now if we reduced the energy cost of supply drop to 30 energy it's worth 5 minerals per energy. Much more reasonable, in fact I might make a post on the b.net suggestion forums. You disregard the time value of money. 270 minerals now is worth more than 270 minerals evenly distributed over 90 seconds into the future. For your model to make any sense, the mule minerals must be discounted by some factor. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:05 TossFloss wrote: You disregard the time value of money. 270 minerals now is worth more than 270 minerals evenly distributed over 90 seconds into the future. For your model to make any sense, the mule minerals must be discounted by some factor. That doesn't work either, since Starcraft isn't a business where your only goal is to mine minerals, and there are investors to borrow money from and investments to invest money in. There is no simple way to compare the value of X minerals now to Y minerals later, you can only look at what you could use those minerals for at the time you get them. | ||
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Kinmaul
United States104 Posts
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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fulmetljaket
482 Posts
this does however give you supply at a momnents notice, if you get a few depots killed, you can call in a supply drop for the loss. it also makes you not have to lose worker minerals to build time. thats just my opinion tho... instead of building depots from 140-150 supply up to 200 supply, you can just use your supply drop to save time and money. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
http://www.starcraft-replay.com/replays/socrates-vs-machine-1270774976.php | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:55 fulmetljaket wrote: i personally feel that supply drop was meant to be used towards the mid-late game, when you already have an expo, or possibly two. once you have so many minerals coming in, it seems pointless to throw mules in, as you are starved for gas, not minerals. this does however give you supply at a momnents notice, if you get a few depots killed, you can call in a supply drop for the loss. it also makes you not have to lose worker minerals to build time. thats just my opinion tho... instead of building depots from 140-150 supply up to 200 supply, you can just use your supply drop to save time and money. At that stage of the game, the energy tension isn't with MULE, but with scan. And the utility of scan can vary greatly. | ||
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:17 Funchucks wrote: That doesn't work either, since Starcraft isn't a business where your only goal is to mine minerals, and there are investors to borrow money from and investments to invest money in. There is no simple way to compare the value of X minerals now to Y minerals later, you can only look at what you could use those minerals for at the time you get them. Expansion and worker production act as investment vehicles. To establish a lower limit, the difference between 400 minerals now and 400 minerals in X time could be used to compute a reasonable discount factor by looking at the difference in mineral productivity. Non-existence of investors does not preclude the time-value of money. I agree with your last point, specifically that: "There is no simple way..." However, I believe that the concept of a discount factor still maintains relevance. | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
You get an immediate +100 minerals as a byproduct of not building the depot, whereas it will take 3 or 4 transfers of the mule to reach that amount. Then a couple more transfers to balance the loss in minerals of the scv spending time building the depot. Money that you get right now is worth more than money you get 30 or 40 seconds from now. Using a mule is like queueing up too many units. That 100 minerals could have been a barracks 20 seconds earlier or something if your build is designed to take that into account. | ||
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Random69
35 Posts
From my own experience I would say that the mule is a much much better way to spend the energy. 1. Supply depots are weak, if you lose 1-2 early (16 supply) depots, it will cripple you in ways you can not really recover from fast enough, nevermind midgame if you were to lose 4-5 of them. 2. Rather use the mule and the extra fast minerals will help to expand faster, a early to mid game strat that I have used and seems to work well is that when I am close to expanding, usually try expand at the high yield mineral patch and then i purely use my mules on the high yield minerals.from both buildings. Since the mules mine such high quanitys i hardly make any scv`s at my high yield expansion except those for gas and i usually only mine it with mules, this way if you expansion goes you do not lose the scv`s and because the high yield gives so much then with muels you can quickly make a 3 command centre which gives again +unit supply and more mules. I might not be as good as the original poster in match but my logic is pretty sound | ||
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Toran7
United States160 Posts
It's a good quick fix that adds to the Terran's adaptability, but it's situational at best.... | ||
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