EPTI figure it wouldn't affect the balance of other MUs so much and it would be a more viable defense against mutalisks harass, just like it was much more effective in SC1...
Any thoughts on that?
Photon Canons
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
I figure it wouldn't affect the balance of other MUs so much and it would be a more viable defense against mutalisks harass, just like it was much more effective in SC1... Any thoughts on that? | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
that or a psi storm buff | ||
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Defrag
Poland414 Posts
I recently played with a protoss player ( platinum obv ) who got his main / natural destroyed, but in the meantime he sneaked out and turreted two more expos with like 20 turrets each, and held 4-5 HT's in each for defense. I was limit capped and couldnt get in lol. Less static defense = funnier games. With a boost to bunkers/sunkens ( those are terrible thou )/ photo cannons the game is going to change into playing Human of Warcraf3, where u would FE and place 10 towers that were unkillable with armor upgrade. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
Phoenixes are really good in just straight up muta v phoenix fights, If toss starts getting phoenixes after observer scouts spire, like 5-6 supported by a nice mixed ground army of sentries/stalkers/zealots/immortals for a good timing attack, that will crush mutas easily, especially with guardian shield. this works well vs pretty much what any early mutalisking player will have. or you can opt for earlier phoenixes and mass them more, theyre still great in large numbers of mutas vs phoenixes. This is what Response used to do (or still does maybe?) a lot vs zerg.. as well as some other protosses (lorelei aka Insane used to do a ton, he showed me how good phoenixes were, back before he switched to terran). Phoenixes are extremely fast and good harassing.. first few to kill overlords, then after getting around 4-5 start raping queens/drones/lone hydras. ofc theyre really useful for pickign up infestors, and even early roach pushes as well. another misconception about Phoenixes is their weakness to Corruptors. in a straight up battle, they're evenly matched to Corruptors, however Corruptors move MUCH slower than the very fast phoenix, and so the P player gets to decide when he wants to fight, and can always run away if outnumbered. however if the Z is outnumbered and tries to run, the corruptors will all get picked off. it's also very easy to pull away phoenixes just before they die to save them as well, as corruptors cant chase them whatsoever | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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Flames
United States105 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On March 15 2010 03:07 Fayth wrote: thing is, phoenix is not a counter to mutas really, as opposed to corsairs who had splash, more mutas makes phoenix less effective cuz of the bouncing thingies 2 reasons why this doesn't matter. phoenixes are so strong vs mutas even in large army sizes that the bounce doesnt make up enough for the phoenix's strength. the other thing that really clinches it is that if you have sentry's guardian shield supporting, the bounces do almost nothing, and mutas really suck then. 9, 4.5, 2.25 with guardian shield it becomes: 7, 2.5, 0.25 | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
did you read my posts? did you actually experience/test this? because it's completely untrue, especially with guardian shield support as i said | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
 I'd really like to hear some good Zs comments on what they view the best counter to mass muta to be | ||
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On March 15 2010 03:14 Fayth wrote: the bounces are 4.5 and 2.25? this is ridiculous lol, shudnt it be 9 3 1 ? i just guessed. i thought the damage was halved with each bounce, dont know if its rounded, but it wouldnt be rounded from 4.5 to 3 and 2.25 to 1 how does that make sense until youve actually tried using phoenixes in either test custom games or real games you may not really understand just how effective they are vs mutas like i said, 6 phoenixes will instantly 1 shot a mutalisk, 3 will kill in 2 shots. if you read my main post, a timing attack with some phoenixes support by a well balanced ground army, especially with guardian shield, beats muta builds every time | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On March 15 2010 03:18 Zelniq wrote: i just guessed. i thought the damage was halved with each bounce, dont know if its rounded, but it wouldnt be rounded from 4.5 to 3 and 2.25 to 1 how does that make sense until youve actually tried using phoenixes in either test custom games or real games you may not really understand just how effective they are vs mutas like i said, 6 phoenixes will instantly 1 shot a mutalisk, 3 will kill in 2 shots. if you read my main post, a timing attack with some phoenixes support by a well balanced ground army, especially with guardian shield, beats muta builds every time well my friend has been trying several variation of phoenix builds PvZ and he's a pretty solid player (he plays under the id vOidwards on US server) and he told me phoenix were good against mutas in small amount, but once it gets to like 20 mutas you can't do shit anymore with phoenix cuz of bounce | ||
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On March 15 2010 03:18 Muirhead wrote: Well I'm 12th plat so OK but not great, and I haven't had much luck with phoenix vs mass muta. But it's true I haven't used them in conjunction with sentries much... worth a try though it kind of cuts into the mobility of the phoenix I'd really like to hear some good Zs comments on what they view the best counter to mass muta to be as someone who has a lot of experience going mutas vs protoss, i gave you already 2 of the general build ideas already in the first post i made above. you usually dont want to just sit on your ass and let him mass a huge number of mutalisks because theyre so mobile and your bases will be spread out that it becomes increasingly harder to defend them all. timing attacks are more effective | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On March 15 2010 03:22 Zelniq wrote: as someone who has a lot of experience going mutas vs protoss, i gave you already 2 of the general build ideas already in the first post i made above. you usually dont want to just sit on your ass and let him mass a huge number of mutalisks because theyre so mobile and your bases will be spread out that it becomes increasingly harder to defend them all. timing attacks are more effective this is the thing, you can't defend ur base against mutalisks while moving out, at least from what I've heard... unlike in broodwar | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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