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Can you tell which zealot belongs to which side?
SC2 has gone backwards with respect to coloring. Forget micro/macro, politics between Kespa vs Blizzard, and other issues that could kill SC2 as a spectator sport. The difficulty in differentiating sides because SC2 coloring sucks will kill SC2 as a spectator sport!
My zealots and the opponent zealots look almost identical. How are people supposed to micro when they can't pick out their own units? If I can't tell the difference between units and I'm the one playing, how does Blizzard expect spectators to differentiate the units when their streams have lower resolution?
Edit: I've started a thread about this in the Blizzard SC2 Beta forums. If you're in Beta, please bump this thread so Blizzard does something about it:
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425469959&postId=234233734774&sid=5000#3
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425469994&sid=5000
Unlike many casual SC2 beta players, we in TeamLiquid care about the future of SC2 as a spectator sport.
Edit2: Here is the full resolution version:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9299/badcolors2.jpg
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Yea this looks really bad from a spectators point of view. Obviously playing would be a bit different, but still kinda annoying.
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On March 07 2010 05:43 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
Yea this looks really bad from a spectators point of view. Obviously playing would be a bit different, but still kinda annoying.
No, I was the one playing, lol. It is very bad when you play - they need to fix this.
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100% agree tbh, but the same thing happens in sc1 when we have yellow protoss vs white protoss. Hopefully you can change colors when spectating so you get two distinct colors.
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Canada5565 Posts
I've thought of this many times, it's such an obvious problem I don't see how they won't fix it.
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If unit coloring is the biggest hurdle for SC2 being a prime spectator sport then I am sure blizzard is quite pleased with themselves.
I can't imagine that is too hard to fix.
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Or play with lowest graphic settings. More BW feel, and much clearer and easier to distinguish stuff
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On March 07 2010 05:44 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Zoom in!
Zoom in what? I was playing at 1680 x 1050 resolution, and the colors are indistiguishable.
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On March 07 2010 05:45 petered wrote:
If unit coloring is the biggest hurdle between SC2 and being a prime spectator sport then I am sure blizzard is quite pleased with themselves.
This.
And if you turn it to low graphic settings (probably more practical for playing, rather than looking), everything is easy to distinguish.
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On March 07 2010 05:46 StarcraftMan wrote:Zoom in what? I was playing at 1680 x 1050 resolution, and the colors are indistiguishable.
Use your mouse scroll wheel to zoom in! It's like wc3.
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On March 07 2010 05:44 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 05:43 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
Yea this looks really bad from a spectators point of view. Obviously playing would be a bit different, but still kinda annoying. No, I was the one playing, lol. It is very bad when you play - they need to fix this.
I know you were the one playing, i was saying from my view it is retarded, and from yours its kind of annoying also.
You can select your units while you're playing to find out which ones are yours, as a spectator i wouldn't be able to tell whos units are who's until they are all dead lol
This just adds to the big-ball-mess battles that seem too common in sc2. No one can tell wtf is going on until the fight is over!
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in terms of playing the game i just raised the gamma a little and its k but in terms of spectating this is going to be a huge issue in terms of the quality and how its set up.
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Strange, why aren't the zealot's psi blades using team colors in that picture? In my experience they do... is that a bug?
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Colors are too bland and hard to distinguish yes.
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In BW lings were basically YOUR color with some outlines. In SC2 lings all look the same save for a little highlight or detail with your color.
This trend has kind of followed all around SC2 =(
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On March 07 2010 05:54 Inschato wrote:
Strange, why aren't the zealot's psi blades using team colors in that picture? In my experience they do... is that a bug?
Yes, in reality Zealots have huge Player-colored glow on their psi blades that makes it really easy to tell which is which. I don't know why they don't have it in that shot.
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I could tell pretty easy..
But still, teamgames are for nubs/casuals I guess so this thing will never happen in 1on1.
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i have exactly the same problem. in PvP games i often dont know which zealot is mine, the shitty effects and the slow mouse do the rest...
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Pretty sure you can change your color in game just like in sc1. Always switch the color scheme if your worried about it--Although this doesn't work for replays yet.
On just the color issue, I had hoped that SC2 would learn from Warhammer and allow real control of unit colors (and decals) so each player could get known by their schemes. Just having the standard yellows and pinks is disappointing and many units come off odd because of their normal colors overwhelming the player color.
I hope they add more customizability with time.
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Yeah lowering the graphics settings helps quite a bit, but that is sort of a cop out imo. I shouldn't have to play on low graphics settings just to tell what units are mine. Luckily I play terran and it usually isn't that big of an issue for terran. Marauders can be a bit of a pain sometimes, but the other units are generally pretty clear.
Overall the models need more team colors imo. Compare a marine to a marauder. The marine is mostly colored by the team color it belongs too ... but the marauder is mostly black/gray.
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On March 07 2010 06:07 789 wrote:
Yeah lowering the graphics settings helps quite a bit, but that is sort of a cop out imo. I shouldn't have to play on low graphics settings just to tell what units are mine. Luckily I play terran and it usually isn't that big of an issue for terran. Marauders can be a bit of a pain sometimes, but the other units are generally pretty clear.
Overall the models need more team colors imo. Compare a marine to a marauder. The marine is mostly colored by the team color it belongs too ... but the marauder is mostly black/gray.
Zerg vs zerg battles on creep are also hard to figure out who is who.
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i think one of problems is that the atmospheric coloring is interferring with visibility. For instance, on maps that are nighttime, all of the buildings, units, and scenary have this blueish low contrast happening. While it looks pretty, and camouflages the units making them hard to identify. Just tweaking the colors on units and buildings to make em brighter, will help a lot. Also, Imo, the player colors should be almost fluorescent.
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At first I actually couldn't find the other team's zealots... I thought they all belonged to the same side...  but then i realized that the group of 4 zealots near the ramp were slightly different colouring...
The reason why it worked so well in BW though was that the team colours had such a contrast. Since all of the colours are darker in SC2, it becomes a harder to distinguish.
Also, I wish that people would stop being such asses and just concede facts when they are pointed out. Instead people jump all over these posts and say, "Stop complaining! Your opinions don't matter... blah blah blah." The fact is, the colours ARE harder to distinguish. If you don't agree, then attack the statement, not the person...
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alt + f the solution to all your problems.
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I really hope they open up three colors for players: Main, Secondary, and a Trim. That way one player could have blue, white with yellow trim and another purple, red, with green trim. Make true unique looks for players.
It's probably too late though.
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Zerg vs Zerg is terrible, can't recall the number of times I tried to select enemy units or forget my own because I taught they were enemies 
They need to make the coloring really NOTICEABLE its really annoying.
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alt + f does the same thing as shift + tab in broodwar for the people that don't know this yet.
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Not that anyone in this thread have been negative... I'm just trying thinking about all of the other threads I've been reading lately. "Oh, I've noticed that this aspect of the game might need tweaking." "Oh shut up you n00b and just enjoy what you have! I don't have a problem and if you were a pro, you'd like it too." Man, those types of replies are annoying...
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On March 07 2010 06:25 BeJe77 wrote:Zerg vs Zerg is terrible, can't recall the number of times I tried to select enemy units or forget my own because I taught they were enemies They need to make the coloring really NOTICEABLE its really annoying.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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On March 07 2010 06:24 Ziph wrote:
alt + f the solution to all your problems.
And does this fix the Zerg vs Zerg coloring issue on creep?
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Well I'm not into beta (i wish i could say "im not into beta 'yet!', but i lost all hopes :D), so I watch a lot of streams of various quality.
And I must agree with the original post, this is really, really hard to say who's who and it really is a huge and major concern to me.
I also watched some replays, and as far as I am concerned, it's not as clearer as it was in SC:BW, especially if you're to watch a zvz.
Oh, and by the way, do not even try watching 2v2, it's just wrong.
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Maybe to make the units in 2v2 easier to distinguish, they should introduce a fourth race... hehe.
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Ironically lowering your graphic settings fixes this problem 
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On March 07 2010 06:34 wintergt wrote:Ironically lowering your graphic settings fixes this problem
Or going back to SC1 
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On March 07 2010 06:26 kingjames01 wrote:
Not that anyone in this thread have been negative... I'm just trying thinking about all of the other threads I've been reading lately. "Oh, I've noticed that this aspect of the game might need tweaking." "Oh shut up you n00b and just enjoy what you have! I don't have a problem and if you were a pro, you'd like it too." Man, those types of replies are annoying...
It seems like a pretty complicated fix really. I mean, they probably understand the problem but are trying to find ways to fix it. Better just add a complaint on the b.net forums than rant off here for a couple minutes when full time paid programmers/artists/designers have probably contemplated the coloring issues for weeks if not months.
The whiner side is also just as annoying, you just put a polar spin on them. From what I can see, it's often something like "Oh my god, blizzard has killed starcraft 2 and here's why... blah blah blah" so they're not much better than the responses.
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Yeah, maybe for the player... However, if and when SC2 tries to start up as a "spectator sport", the games would be more aesthetically pleasing to me if they were broadcast in higher resolution. At that point, if the colour problem were not addressed, I'd be confused and have to wait for the end of a battle to figure out who actually survived...
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On March 07 2010 06:37 MeruFM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 06:26 kingjames01 wrote:
Not that anyone in this thread have been negative... I'm just trying thinking about all of the other threads I've been reading lately. "Oh, I've noticed that this aspect of the game might need tweaking." "Oh shut up you n00b and just enjoy what you have! I don't have a problem and if you were a pro, you'd like it too." Man, those types of replies are annoying... It seems like a pretty complicated fix really. I mean, they probably understand the problem but are trying to find ways to fix it. Better just add a complaint on the b.net forums than rant off here for a couple minutes when full time paid programmers/artists/designers have probably contemplated the coloring issues for weeks if not months. The whiner side is also just as annoying, you just put a polar spin on them. From what I can see, it's often something like "Oh my god, blizzard has killed starcraft 2 and here's why... blah blah blah" so they're not much better than the responses.
Well the whole point of beta is to find issues and for them to fix them if Coloring is an issue and people notice it, then they will complain about it. It's simple as that :D...
The only thing we can do is complain and wait for official reply if its being addressed :p
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Yeah I couldn't tell the difference at all. They really should change this.
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Yeah, I definitely agree about the whiners too! "WAAH! The game is broken!"
I say, if you have a complaint, then propose a solution.
Anyway, I do agree that the sides are hard to make out. My original post was really about the b.net forum that the OP linked to. The responses are generally that either there is no problem IF you have a great computer, there is no problem if YOU are the one playing or that the colour contrasts so well, that if you can't tell the difference, you must be blind...
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On March 07 2010 06:40 BeJe77 wrote:
Well the whole point of beta is to find issues and for them to fix them if Coloring is an issue and people notice it, then they will complain about it. It's simple as that :D...
The only thing we can do is complain and wait for official reply if its being addressed :p
I've started 2 threads about this in the Beta forums. One in general, and one in suggestions/balance:
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425469959&sid=5000
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425469994&sid=5000
Blizzard has not addressed this issue in their last several patches. Few players on the Battle.net forums care about this. I'm asking Teamliquid players in SC2 Beta to support this issue and to bump those threads, as many of us really care about SC2 becoming a successful spectator E-Sport.
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My only issue is how the map can determine the color scheme of the overall game. I'm probably just not used to some games being dark and some games being in the daylight, but I prefer games happening in the daylight for better visibility.
As for mirror battles with units, I have no problem with distinguishing units at all, even on high settings. I think some people just need to get used to it. Keep in mind that we've been playing BW for years so of course we what everything is supposed to look like. I think Blizzard did a great job with at least the silhouettes.
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On March 07 2010 06:29 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 06:24 Ziph wrote:
alt + f the solution to all your problems. And does this fix the Zerg vs Zerg coloring issue on creep?
Obviously because green is way better to see on black/red creep.
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Yeah, while it's nice to hear about these problems, really all these discussions and "yes this is a problem fix it" replies would do more good on the beta forums, it seems. Not saying it shouldn't be discussed here, too. But it would be pretty cool if all these 3/4/5 page threads on little topics also showed up on the official forums.
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On March 07 2010 07:03 Pyrthas wrote:
Yeah, while it's nice to hear about these problems, really all these discussions and "yes this is a problem fix it" replies would do more good on the beta forums, it seems. Not saying it shouldn't be discussed here, too. But it would be pretty cool if all these 3/4/5 page threads on little topics also showed up on the official forums.
Yes, I'm trying to get more TL posters to support me. Some fanboys (maybe lucky WoW opt ins?) don't think it should be fixed. If you're in Beta, go to those two threads in the Beta forums and help get this issue onto Blizzard's plate.
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Pretty much everyone in those threads are responding as to whether they can differentiate on their own computers while playing. Which is prob all they care about.
Somehow we need to get the message to Blizzard that it's exponentially harder to differentiate while watching on a stream as a spectator.
Also the ppl posting that complainers should chill out because this is beta are off. They've been working on graphics for this entire time and this is really what the Blizz dev team believe are the best product. This is not like balancing issues where they are all prepared to make significant changes already. Unless people actively complain, they will be pretty set with their graphics.
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On March 07 2010 07:25 yoshi_yoshi wrote:
Pretty much everyone in those threads are responding as to whether they can differentiate on their own computers while playing. Which is prob all they care about.
Somehow we need to get the message to Blizzard that it's exponentially harder to differentiate while watching on a stream as a spectator.
Also the ppl posting that complainers should chill out because this is beta are off. They've been working on graphics for this entire time and this is really what the Blizz dev team believe are the best product. This is not like balancing issues where they are all prepared to make significant changes already. Unless people actively complain, they will be pretty set with their graphics.
The problem is, I'm fighting an uphill battle against casual players that probably don't care about the spectating aspect of SC2. That's why I'm asking for help from fellow TLers who value the specatating aspect of SC2.
I already complained about the confusion on streams before getting into Beta but many people kept telling me it would be different in game.
Well, I'm in Beta and I'm playing the game, and it's still confusing. I think the best quote is from Wolfe.eflow in that thread http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23425469994&sid=5000:
I was playing with a friend, both of us zerg. I was yellow and he was green.
I kept trying to move his units.
It sucked.
This is exactly how I felt. When my zealots clashed with the opponent's zealots, it was just one random unit mess.
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On March 07 2010 07:07 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 07:03 Pyrthas wrote:
Yeah, while it's nice to hear about these problems, really all these discussions and "yes this is a problem fix it" replies would do more good on the beta forums, it seems. Not saying it shouldn't be discussed here, too. But it would be pretty cool if all these 3/4/5 page threads on little topics also showed up on the official forums. Yes, I'm trying to get more TL posters to support me. Some fanboys (maybe lucky WoW opt ins?) don't think it should be fixed. If you're in Beta, go to those two threads in the Beta forums and help get this issue onto Blizzard's plate. I saw the replies in the threads. :/ Unfortunately, I'm not in beta (I could never even get the opt-in software to work).
On March 07 2010 07:25 yoshi_yoshi wrote:
Somehow we need to get the message to Blizzard that it's exponentially harder to differentiate while watching on a stream as a spectator. This is important. All those replies about it being a compressed image on the official forums sort of missed the mark, since streams are, for the foreseeable future, going to be compressed to hell and back.
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on 11 its easy red and blue, and imo 11 is the most important.
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On March 07 2010 07:37 Pyrthas wrote:
This is important. All those replies about it being a compressed image on the official forums sort of missed the mark, since streams are, for the foreseeable future, going to be compressed to hell and back.
We need to drown out the naysayers and get this on Blizzard's list of priorities. Perhaps if some TL admins could put this at the forefront to get as many TL beta testers to bump this issue - if we could get all TL beta testers to join in, that would make a difference.
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On March 07 2010 06:24 Ziph wrote:
alt + f the solution to all your problems.
Yeah, really.
Stating that this will be the single reason to kill SC2 as a spectator sport makes me laugh, when there's a clear solution available. =P
edit: I like how like 5 people have mentioned this and nobody is actually acknowledging it or reading the thread.
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I doubt pro maps will have the night-time lighting scheme. I assume spectator maps will have a bright overhead light a la blistering sands or desert oasis. Also, if they can pick colors, they can make sure they contrast enough.
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FIX COLORS PLOXXX BLIZZARDPLOYEEZ REDEN DIS!
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I have the same problem with WC3. Why can't they just make your units be completely your color like in SC1 instead of trying to make shit look more realistic or whatever? Flashy graphics don't make an RTS.
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On March 07 2010 07:43 Mikilatov wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 06:24 Ziph wrote:
alt + f the solution to all your problems. Yeah, really. Stating that this will be the single reason to kill SC2 as a spectator sport makes me laugh, when there's a clear solution available. =P edit: I like how like 5 people have mentioned this and nobody is actually acknowledging it or reading the thread.
Does alt-f really solve the issue with Zerg vs Zerg on creep? Because you can alt-f through many color variations, and you may still have difficulty seperating zerg units from different sides in creep battles.
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On March 07 2010 06:37 MeruFM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 06:26 kingjames01 wrote:
Not that anyone in this thread have been negative... I'm just trying thinking about all of the other threads I've been reading lately. "Oh, I've noticed that this aspect of the game might need tweaking." "Oh shut up you n00b and just enjoy what you have! I don't have a problem and if you were a pro, you'd like it too." Man, those types of replies are annoying... It seems like a pretty complicated fix really. I mean, they probably understand the problem but are trying to find ways to fix it. Better just add a complaint on the b.net forums than rant off here for a couple minutes when full time paid programmers/artists/designers have probably contemplated the coloring issues for weeks if not months. The whiner side is also just as annoying, you just put a polar spin on them. From what I can see, it's often something like "Oh my god, blizzard has killed starcraft 2 and here's why... blah blah blah" so they're not much better than the responses.
How complicated is it to program in a "make my units bright colors" option?
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On March 07 2010 08:03 PJA wrote:
How complicated is it to program in a "make my units bright colors" option?
I'm suggesting an "enhance player color" slider in the options menu. People that like the colors gritty can leave the default setting of the slider as is. People that like brighter identifiable colors should be able to change the slider to something they like. This would be invaluable to streamers.
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Maybe some of you just have poor eyesight. I actually have a very easy time distinguishing the units apart, even the blue/teal zealots. The only time I can see this being a problem for spectators is if the broadcast isn't in HD and is instead grainy/blurry.
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Change yourself to green and enemies to red, problem solved.
Also, you gave us a "borked" screenshot. That isn't how you see it on your screen so why would you resize it? I'm sure it looks fine on your actual resolution.
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This is how extreme the colors are in BW. Look at the RED zerg. its fricken red! /// Please blizzard make at least the colors like they were. The "color" really needs to be changed. especially on the zerg side of things. ahem. the creep color.
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On March 07 2010 08:35 RyanS wrote:
Change yourself to green and enemies to red, problem solved.
Also, you gave us a "borked" screenshot. That isn't how you see it on your screen so why would you resize it? I'm sure it looks fine on your actual resolution.
If you had read the entire post, you would have seen the link to the full screen resolution. The issue is, when you have random zealots clumped together in battle, it's hard to pick out which one is yours and which one isn't. It's not micro friendly at all and it's not spectator friendly either.
It's probably easy for Blizzard to fix. They just need to add an "enhance player color" slider in their options menu. People that like the colors gritty can leave the slider alone. People that want brighter defined colors can change the slider.
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On March 07 2010 08:45 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 08:35 RyanS wrote:
Change yourself to green and enemies to red, problem solved.
Also, you gave us a "borked" screenshot. That isn't how you see it on your screen so why would you resize it? I'm sure it looks fine on your actual resolution. It's probably easy for Blizzard to fix. They just need to add an "enhance player color" slider in their options menu. People that like the colors gritty can leave the slider alone. People that want brighter defined colors can change the slider.
This is probably the best solution for this.
Particularly for mirror match-ups, color poses a problem. However, if you watch high quality VODs in non-mirror match ups, its quite easy to distinguish whats going on.
I imagine this isn't at the top of Blizzard's priorities at the moment, but I can see them doing something to fix this. Whenever I get my beta key (come onn.....:[), i'll be sure to post in your threads supporting a fix like this.
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i thought of this problem since the beginning.
alt+f does not solve the issue.
why force spectators to only watch with green/ red team colors, when the alternative is to have all colors distinguishable???
alt+f is only for the actual players, who want consistency in their gaming.
i don like how units blend in with everything in general.
The units are dark toned, so when they are situated in dark toned maps, it's like watching diablo. (it's fine when you control one character against million monsters, but if you control the whole army, it looks blend)
dull zerg buildings in dull creep are also not pleasant to watch for me.
some animations like hydralisks throwing spines and siege tanks firing are like invisible almost,
while protoss in general have so annoying beams that distract players
i only played bw and didn't get into wow or wc3. so i'm biased, but so far, this is how i feel when i watch the streams.
edit) i also hate how engineering bay looks, its like a curvy box with few characteristics that resemble the old ebay. its like sc players complained that graphic looks like 3d toys, so blizzard just made everything dark toned, but kept the curvy 3-d looks. i dont have problem with how units look in general though, but i hate how some of the terran buildings look,,,
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the trouble is that everything in sc2 is so much darker. i noticed this in a recent newspost:
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I don't mean to hijack.... But I thought I'd throw this out there because it's kind of in the same field I suppose.
I find it very annoying that you still see building animations are whatnot after scouting (like a nexus flashing) an area even when you no longer have vision. I also think it is somewhat difficult (more so than in bw) to differentiate between areas which you have scouted but do not have vision of, and areas where you actually do have vision. They should make parts where you do not have vision darker than they currently are imo.
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On March 07 2010 09:10 Jonoman92 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack.... But I thought I'd throw this out there because it's kind of in the same field I suppose.
I find it very annoying that you still see building animations are whatnot after scouting (like a nexus flashing) an area even when you no longer have vision. I also think it is somewhat difficult (more so than in bw) to differentiate between areas which you have scouted but do not have vision of, and areas where you actually do have vision. They should make parts where you do not have vision darker than they currently are imo.
yeah, im having a lot of problems with this too
didnt bother posting it before because of all the HURR DURR ITS UR VISION//BLIZZARD IS FINE//OMG ITS BETA idiots
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On March 07 2010 09:00 Simple wrote:
the trouble is that everything in sc2 is so much darker. i noticed this in a recent newspost:
the darkness can be fixed by upping gamma a bit
it's the color palette and the inclusion of realistic shadows and great texture detail that makes everything so hard to distinguish - if this had been a complaint from the very start, Blizzard would've fixed it by now
the zerg color palette is the worst IMO, especially when the units are all bunched up together on creep
I'm fine with detailed textures, but they need to strengthen the colors and allow us the option to turn off shadows completely
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The picture in the OP is minimized. Click on it to expand and you'll see that the two zealots near the ramp are clearly blue, and the ones away are clearly teal.
Also, the psi blades usually glow with the player's color. I have no idea why it's not working in the screenshot.
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We, Teamliquid, Demand that the colors be more vibrant and noticeable!
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I can tell which zealots are yours and which aren't. If you're having that hard of a time then switch to ally colors, that makes your units green and the enemy's red. You'll have a hard time not telling the difference then.
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When you play every single game with your zealots as bright green and your opponent's zealots as bright red, you get pretty used to picking out your zealots from the opponent's zealots (unless you're red/green colorblind--then you're just screwed).
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On March 07 2010 11:28 Quixoticism wrote:
I can tell which zealots are yours and which aren't. If you're having that hard of a time then switch to ally colors, that makes your units green and the enemy's red. You'll have a hard time not telling the difference then.
LOL, so can I. The issue is when all the units are mixed together and you would like to micro but you spend a little extra time to figure out which unit is which - by that time, your units are dead.
In addition, if you're watching this via a stream, the quality degrades further and it's harder to tell which unit belong to which side.
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Imo color the zealots lightsabers their team color and do shit like that for alot of units their coloring is bad natively it's a bit better on bigger units but it's still bad
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Also, the psi blades usually glow with the player's color. I have no idea why it's not working in the screenshot.
This. Either this is a bug, or it's different on different graphics settings...which I highly doubt.
On Blizzard's list of known bugs for this patch is the removal of certain effects when shaders are set to High. Maybe this is your issue?
Imo color the zealots lightsabers their team color and do shit like that for alot of units their coloring is bad natively it's a bit better on bigger units but it's still bad
The Zealot's psi-blades are team-colored. Watch any stream/video you want.
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On March 07 2010 11:56 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +Also, the psi blades usually glow with the player's color. I have no idea why it's not working in the screenshot. This. Either this is a bug, or it's different on different graphics settings...which I highly doubt. On Blizzard's list of known bugs for this patch is the removal of certain effects when shaders are set to High. Maybe this is your issue? Show nested quote +Imo color the zealots lightsabers their team color and do shit like that for alot of units their coloring is bad natively it's a bit better on bigger units but it's still bad The Zealot's psi-blades are team-colored. Watch any stream/video you want.
The blades don't glow team colors if you turn down graphics settings. Easy to verify. Try it out
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I agree about the colors.
Red and blue in particular look very faded. They need to be more vibrant.
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the point is units show less team color than in sc1. so its harder to distinguish teams in sc2 than sc1, although the difficulty varies between type of units, size of the army, the team color, and the graphic setting. and this added difficulty can negatively impact 1v1, team game, and spectating.
experience and tweaking settings will help 1v1 games. (but some people hate low setting, and they shouldn't be forced to pick it to play well. it compromises the experience)
the biggest problem is with spectating. not everyone who follows bw streams watches live 720p. a lot of times, we watch shitty resolution, but telling teams apart was never a problem. now, a lot of units look like a big blob of grey with tints of team colors. sure i don't have experience with the game yet, but in dark terrain, big blobs of dark armies with shadows all over the place, with beams and rays covering half the screen, i don't have the grasp of what's really happening like i did in sc1. it's not so much wow, this player really pulled it off in a difficult situation. i'm more likely to go, oh this guy came out winning after that big blob of action.
sure micro is important also in sc2. but if you cant really tell apart these genius moves besides the obvious spells, then a crucial factor that kept sc exciting has just been compromised.
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On March 07 2010 12:11 DN2perfectionGM wrote:
the point is units show less team color than in sc1. so its harder to distinguish teams in sc2 than sc1, although the difficulty varies between type of units, size of the army, the team color, and the graphic setting. and this added difficulty can negatively impact 1v1, team game, and spectating.
experience and tweaking settings will help 1v1 games. (but some people hate low setting, and they shouldn't be forced to pick it to play well. it compromises the experience)
the biggest problem is with spectating. not everyone who follows bw streams watches live 720p. a lot of times, we watch shitty resolution, but telling teams apart was never a problem. now, a lot of units look like a big blob of grey with tints of team colors. sure i don't have experience with the game yet, but in dark terrain, big blobs of dark armies with shadows all over the place, with beams and rays covering half the screen, i don't have the grasp of what's really happening like i did in sc1. it's not so much wow, this player really pulled it off in a difficult situation. i'm more likely to go, oh this guy came out winning after that big blob of action.
sure micro is important also in sc2. but if you cant really tell apart these genius moves besides the obvious spells, then a crucial factor that kept sc exciting has just been compromised.
I totally agree with this post. The point is not that YOU as the player can make it out because you guys are so much cooler than the people who can't, but that the colours are hard to make out for some people. If even one person speaks out about a problem, then it's definitely possible that others are too. Sometimes when I'm watching a stream, I can't even tell what colour the team is supposed to be. I mean, it's obvious which units belong to a given race, but if I can't even figure out the team colour when the view is only showing one army, how am I supposed to do it when two armies clash?
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When watching a replay (and while playing) Blizzard should add an option to make the different sides glow with very bright different colors (perhaps even neon). Not just the blades or an emblem, but every part of the unit should shine with for example yellow and red. This is most important for spectators, and when broadcasting games, the caster should activate the bright color schemes atleast when the two blobs face eachother, because it is certainly more interesting for a non playing spectator to actually see which side that is winning.
Picture a football game (soccer...) where the teams both have the same color on their shirts, for a casual sports watcher this game would never be a major hit. We need to have the non playing spectators hooked on their first viewing, and if they can differentiate the two sides clearly, it would be much more interesting for them to actually quickly grasp that one side is on the verge of winning.
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We, Teamliquid, Demand that the colors be more vibrant and noticeable!
didn't we demand the opposite?
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If you're game is too dark, can't you just adjust it with the gamma correction?
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On March 07 2010 17:02 pzea469 wrote:didn't we demand the opposite?
thats the joke. At first we were like "the colors are too bright, they need to be darker and more gritty"
and now its the opposite
can't please everyone. I think the colors are fine. I have more trouble distinguishing units when all healthbars are on. Then I really can't tell who is who.
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On March 07 2010 16:45 HowardRoark wrote:
Picture a football game (soccer...) where the teams both have the same color on their shirts, for a casual sports watcher this game would never be a major hit. We need to have the non playing spectators hooked on their first viewing, and if they can differentiate the two sides clearly, it would be much more interesting for them to actually quickly grasp that one side is on the verge of winning.
Agreed. A lot of spectators might not even know Starcraft in depth. Look at all the Korean girls that follow pro league. When they go to a live match, do you really think all those girls really recognize all the different units? Of course not. What those girls do recognize are the colors and if they see one side coming out of a battle with the right colors, it gives them a reason to cheer.
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it's true. sometimes when there are a lot of units in base, you can't see what is what. blizzard really needs to do something about this. a game can look dark and gritty without looking like porridge, i'm sure. colors should be clearly distinguishable, not necessarily brighter.
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There's not enough team colors on a lot of the units. Roaches/marauder are mostly brown and gray. Add the clumping and you get the infamous gray blob.
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The one thing that I don't think has been brought up is that the players are red/blue in every ladder 1v1.
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On March 07 2010 08:38 WaveMotion wrote:This is how extreme the colors are in BW. Look at the RED zerg. its fricken red! /// Please blizzard make at least the colors like they were. The "color" really needs to be changed. especially on the zerg side of things. ahem. the creep color.
Umm, you need to have an SC1 comparison with beige and yellow. Sorry, this is apples to oranges.
Like I said, daytime lighting is fine, it's only the nighttime lighting that makes it difficult.
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Yes colors are too washed out and dull and the colored parts of units are too small.
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The blades don't glow team colors if you turn down graphics settings. Easy to verify. Try it out
I see. Blizzard should fix this.
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I actually dont like the twilight tileset at all. its hard to even watch replays on it. just being able to do it doesnt mean you should do it.
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This is a HUGE problem for people who are not totally into the game indeed. Starcraft:Broodwar is so good for spectators because the units are colored brightly, look different, and don't clump together so much when they walk.
Blizzard definitely needs to fix this if SC2 wants to be a success as a spectator esport.
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A thing I noticed is that sometimes it appears that the map is in "nightime". When that happens, its difficult to understand which color is which. Other than that, the average game colorwise is fine.
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i make gamma higher and i can see every different very easy ...
and i take glasses perhaps u need some too ?
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This is a indeed a problem.
Maybe they could add an option for brightskins and make you chose a colour for your enemy. Just being able to switch enemy colour to red kinda sucks for people like me who have red/green colour weakness, you notice stuff so late on minimap TT...
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I could'nt agree more. Just look at vikings vs vikings.
Another thing bothering me is the size of the lifebars. I like to play with lifebars always on, but sometimes you just can't see nothing besides a bazilion lifebars vs lifebars fight, and this is annoying.
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On March 09 2010 06:06 0neder wrote:
Like I said, daytime lighting is fine, it's only the nighttime lighting that makes it difficult.
Daytime lighting is not fine for some zerg vs zerg battles on creep. It is often difficult to separate zerg units and their owners sometimes for creep battles, depending on the starting color of each zerg army.
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On March 07 2010 05:45 petered wrote:
If unit coloring is the biggest hurdle for SC2 being a prime spectator sport then I am sure blizzard is quite pleased with themselves.
I can't imagine that is too hard to fix.
I'm guessing their biggest hurdle for SC2 is a broken PvP and ZvZ.
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Yeah i think with the health bar above your heads make it easy to distinguish, but yeah.... green and blue look very similar
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On March 09 2010 06:37 ColorsOfRainbow wrote:
i make gamma higher and i can see every different very easy ...
and i take glasses perhaps u need some too ?
I'm not quite sure how changing gamma settings helps to improve visibility for spectators watching streamed matches ?!?
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I think this has to do with shaders. On medium/low shaders although it looks crappier everything is much more distinguishable.
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On March 07 2010 06:24 Ziph wrote:
alt + f the solution to all your problems.
I was playing 2vs2 and when you alt+f, your opponent colors are different than your teammates. When attacking the opponent, you can specify to your teammates the opponent you want to attack via the target indicator icon, but it's just convenient if you can stay on the same colors as your teammate and announce the color of the opponent you want to attack.
When beta goes up to 4vs4 matches, you will probably have a teammate that types out, "lets attack blue." But if everybody else on the team has alt + f the opponent colors, "blue" could mean a different opponent for everybody on the team.
This was not an issue in SC1 because in typical 2vs2, 3vs3, and 4vs4 matches, you could simply announce the color of which opponent to attack and almost all the time, your teammates had the same opponent colors as you did. Poor coloring is just another inconvenience when playing SC2.
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The problem is more the lighting than the coloring. The light position and properties can be modified in the map editor, so I'm not worried.
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On March 07 2010 05:46 lgd-haze wrote:
Or play with lowest graphic settings. More BW feel, and much clearer and easier to distinguish stuff
Agree with this actually!
I have a monster PC, but play on close to lowest settings because it has a much cleaner and smoother feel to it.
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on the lowest settings u can see team colors pretty easy i think 
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On March 07 2010 05:46 lgd-haze wrote:
Or play with lowest graphic settings. More BW feel, and much clearer and easier to distinguish stuff
I don't have to play on the lowest settings for Company of Heroes, or other modern RTS games where the developer handled colors properly.
Funny that people say SC2 will be the game of the next 10 years but in terms of coloring, it's so bad that people have to tune down the settings just for SC2 whereas in other modern RTS games, they don't.
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Just lower the graphics
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The coloring is poor because when they had the units with a lot of team color there was massive outrage from the community complaining about how everything looked. Blizzard responded by tuning down the colors.
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Coloring problem can be fixed by the following changes:
Marauder: change grey shoulders to player color
Hellion: Paint more of the body to player color
siege tank: paint more of the body to player color
Viking: paint more of the body to player color
Medivac: paint more of the body to player color
Banshee: paint more of the body to player color
Battle Cruiser: paint more of the body to player color
Zergling: paint entire body to player color except wings and claws (like sc1)
Baneling: paint webbing between pulsating green to player color, paint body player color
Overseer: paint more of the body to player color (not so much innate purple/blue)
Roach: paint more of the body to player color (not so much innate grey)
Ultralisk: paint more of the TOP to player color (since the ultra's head is so huge)
Brood Lord: paint more of the body to player color
etc etc
Essentially, we need less "innate" coloring on the units.. meaning, the generic grey on Marauders and Roaches that come with all players. I believe this is Blizzard's attempt at making them look "grittier" but you don't need to keep using greys to make things look gritty. Use mostly player colors for the majority of the body of these units, but make those player colors darker. For example, zerg zerglings ENTIRE skin was the color of the player in SC1, and this didn't make them look silly. They still looked gritty, and can continue to look so in Sc2.
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Take all those statements you just made and replace "player color" with "pink".... shudder...
I think blizzard tried to trade off color visibility with looking retardedness...
Unless you want to take away my pink color option, in which case, sir, I vehemently protest!
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Rumor has it that the next patch will fix coloring? Or perhaps it's only for zerg on creep...
Blizzard obviously want's a pretty game, it is doubtful they will change the coloring too much.
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On March 13 2010 02:50 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2010 05:46 lgd-haze wrote:
Or play with lowest graphic settings. More BW feel, and much clearer and easier to distinguish stuff I don't have to play on the lowest settings for Company of Heroes, or other modern RTS games where the developer handled colors properly. Funny that people say SC2 will be the game of the next 10 years but in terms of coloring, it's so bad that people have to tune down the settings just for SC2 whereas in other modern RTS games, they don't.
You think SC2 has clarity issues and go on to mention Company of Heroes.
What a laugh.
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Agreed. Small things like this need attention as well as the big issues. Things like this make small-scale micro battles a nightmare.
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On March 07 2010 05:58 _EmIL_ wrote:
I could tell pretty easy..
But still, teamgames are for nubs/casuals I guess so this thing will never happen in 1on1.
I'm fairly sure 2v2 will see much more competition than it did in sc1...well, not hard to beat you'll say, but I've found 2v2 to be a lot more fun to play so far and judging by the number of divisions in 2v2 vs 1v1, I'm not the only one
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Before I got a beta key I was just watching replays and one of the sort replay packs I got hold of was OverSky's 24 hour maraton Which is also where my Medium settings found these units to be very hard to distinguish from one another:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8481/screenshotut.jpg
It doesn't seem so bad now that I've played some games (2nd invite wave) but still could use a fix.
But when visiting a buddy he had everything crancked out on Ultra settings and had connected his PC to his 40" Sony TV. I mean wow that looking stunningly good I think with great and crisp visuals! So either you have to go low settings or ultra on a reasonably sized monitor to have no visibility issues.
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Creating an option for toggling "easy color mode" or something would solve this. Make it so that the team colors of units don't have shading on them, but always are at 100% brightness. It would look "stupid" but come on, some of those fights look incomprehensible.
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This map is mega gay color-wise, its some night time effect that ruins everything. In others maps everything is fine tbh
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On March 07 2010 05:58 _EmIL_ wrote:
I could tell pretty easy..
But still, teamgames are for nubs/casuals I guess so this thing will never happen in 1on1.
The 2v2 teams leading my division are also top 10 in their respective 1v1 divisions (plat), but perhaps your definition of nubs/casuals is everyone below pro? Were the 2v2 matches in proleague (bw) for nubs too?
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Warcraft 3 actually faced a similar problem too. I expect leagues to choose lowest settings, and highest graphical settings to be shiny and stuff to appease the causals.
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this is a big issue to me 2
in BW the colors were so bright it made the units distinguishable and now they are just a BLOB.
-Zabestrial
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It's sad that people are suggesting that lowering your graphics settings in order to better distinguish units is actually an acceptable and/or reasonable fix to this problem...
Blizzard, fix the god damned colors already.
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bleh crappy spec view
i think i could tell when im playing
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I don't know, it the high resolution image you provided I can clearly spot which unit, what color it is.
Generally though I think the zerg have the least color recognition, especially when on creep.
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this was a problem for me even in the days of the battle reports, blizzard should take 3 months to fix the graphics and lag
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For Zerg if they have the body toned more towards the player color instead of just a static color with sections of the unit corresponding to the player color it think it would work. Like BW but maybe not quite as bold, enabling blizzard to show off the artistry and graphical structure of the unit well.
As for Protoss it would probably help if their attacks were in line with the player color. I believe zealot blades reflect this idea but it's a bit pale. Bold use of the player color throughout the entire army and their attacks would help. Things like blue colossus having a blue thermal lance. Although colossus is usually the easiest to distinguish with team it belongs to based on color. Dark templars cloaks could be warping and shifting through the player color. In anycase they just need to be more bold.
I don't have much difficulty distinguishing between all Terran units. I'm sure at some point blizzard will have marauders sholderplates reflect the players color, it's not as big of an issue for me with terran.
It might also help to have an option for broadcasters to enable a unit ground glow type feature. I was also thinking maybe implementing a flag carrier type feature but that might be too WH40K/WC3 (Blademaster)
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Try turning your gfx settings down. Playing on high res + low settings seems best to me. I agree its crap for spectating, but im sure you can tweak gfx settings to make things "pop" a bit more.
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Do you have the shaders turned off? Cause on my client the zealot blades are the color of who ever owns them(green green pink pink etc.)
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On March 21 2010 05:46 Kennigit wrote:
Try turning your gfx settings down. Playing on high res + low settings seems best to me. I agree its crap for spectating, but im sure you can tweak gfx settings to make things "pop" a bit more.
My post was primarily in regards to sc2 as a spectator sport. So far in my limited beta play I haven't encountered any difficulty. Although leading up to beta entry I watched many videos on YouTube and based my ideas around that experience.
On March 21 2010 05:55 Trowabarton756 wrote:
Do you have the shaders turned off? Cause on my client the zealot blades are the color of who ever owns them(green green pink pink etc.)
Just to reiterate my post was all in regards to sc2 from a viewer perspective not a player. I was fairly certain that zealot blades are of the colour, but I think it the colours were more vibrant instead of an off white with a hint/glow of the player colour it would help.
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I didn't read this massive thread but I agree whoeheartedly with the OP. In a match being watched at 420p or less, the colors all desaturate into tinged shades of grey because of the artifacting. In particular, orange\yellow look the same, red\purple can get tough, and purple zerg units it's unclear what color they are at all...
To me the likely solution is a replay mode that emphasizes bright and colorful unit textures which makes it very obvious what unit you see and who owns it... Almost like watching a tactical overlay that replaces the images of hydralisks with icons representing them. Slightly easier to read without completely destroying the look of the game?
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I noticed this too. Pretty much forced me to use alt+f (shift tab x2 in scbw) to change player colors.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz247/gadwin1929/badcolors2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://classic.battle.net/images/battle/scc/zerg/pix/units/screenshots/h04.jpg?rhtml=y)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pangshai/sc2wlwk5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pangshai/br34b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2967/zealots.jpg)
