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When the Thor was first introduced (along with the original concept of the queen and the original mothership), it seemed like it would of destroyed much of the infrastructure of the game of what it was known for.
Now that the beta is finally out which actually gives us something to base our arguments on. What role does the Thor actually play?
The Thor sucks vs capital ships (IE carrier), and its limited splash damage making it a very poor unit to use against smaller swarming ariel "ships" like mutas. Which just leave its ground attack and special ability.
Granted, 4 Thors + 4 drop ships = a dead cc/hat/nexus in less than 10 seconds thanks to its ability (awesome!), but honestly, that does indeed seem to be the only real use for them, besides mineral drainers when your bank is getting high (If thats the case, why not get BCs?)
Compared to say, the original tank thats been nerfed (-10 siege damage, -20 unsiege damage) but with bigger ground splash. Now, I loveee tanks, But their price, nerfed damage, the fact that they just dont damage other units like they used to, and the ridiculously amount of counters against them (protoss... >_< )
Which brings the question, which is better to use when you want a strong "pow" attack?  (provided they are covered by marines)
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Tanks attack much faster than in SC1. I prefer tanks.
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that and I would much rather have 60 damage instead of 75 *explosive* damage. If anything I see that as a buff.
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i dont use them
id start use them if their special ability had about 1-3 more range so it could actually have a say to colosus in a battle
they should be good vs ultralisks but imo the best way to kill a zerg by then is just massing bio and raven, it feels like thors r overall not as good as i expected them to be
tanks kill the marines like crazy. thats why i dont think tanks r good in tvp or tvz
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The thor is meant as a support unit, it's not something to base your entire army around. Give it time and people will find a use for it.
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thor is like the new ultralisk for Terrans, it provides the O CRAP when your opponent seams like 4 of them storming down the ramp with a bunch of other units. i've never really used them so i cant say much but they just look like the unltra/archon for terran kinda deal
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thors suck against capital ships? i don't find that they do. Some rines and helions holding off a small toss army while 4-5 thors battle it out with 3-4 carriers usually ends with a terren win in my experience.
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Thors are pretty effective in late game TvP when banshees or MM don't seem to pack much of a punch anymore. They 2 hit zeals/stalkers, 1 hit sentries and HTs, and 4 hit colossi. They 8 hit immortals and immortals 8 hit them as well. The rest of your troops should be able to take care of immortals quite easily.
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What would you think if the Tank and Thor switched positions?
What I mean by this is the Tank would be buffed into a much stronger more costly unit and moved to the Thor's position on the Tech tree. Its tank mode would have a higher armor value than its siege mode allowing it to actually 'tank' (lol).
Meanwhile the Thor would be switched to the Tank's current position on the Tech tree. It's stats would be reduced and so would its cost and build time.
Graphically the Tank model would be basically enlarged while the Thor's was decreased.
Thoughts?
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Thors provide some serious anti-air, even if it's slow. Thors kill Mutas in 2 volleys, and one thor can kill 4-5 mutas on its own.
Additionally, a Thor with 1 weapons upgrade kills Banshees in 2 volleys as well.
It's important that you keep SCVs around set to auto-repair, so they'll keep them topped off. After that, it's just a matter of making sure they don't get swarmed using Marines or Hellion backup.
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On March 07 2010 03:42 RPGabe wrote:
Thors provide some serious anti-air, even if it's slow. Thors kill Mutas in 2 volleys, and one thor can kill 4-5 mutas on its own.
Additionally, a Thor with 1 weapons upgrade kills Banshees in 2 volleys as well.
It's important that you keep SCVs around set to auto-repair, so they'll keep them topped off. After that, it's just a matter of making sure they don't get swarmed using Marines or Hellion backup.
Not true. Thors absolutely blow against mutas. lol.
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The Thor is a kind of a glass canon he fall fast under focus fire but do very good damage. Nearly 100 damage to ground can't spit on it!
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The problem with thor is how fast they die and how easily they get focused because they are retardedly big and slow.
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I'm just telling you what the unit vs unit matchups show. One Thor kills 3 or 4 mutas and just about ties vs 5 Mutas. Of course bounce attack skews things in larger groups, but one Thor is cheaper than 5 mutas and they don't really represent the bulk of your army. Thors offer a long range deterrent to keep harassing mutas away, much like Goliaths used to.
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Why exactly are thors bad versus mutas?
Just theorycrafting here... but 10 damage per shot, +6 damage vs light, X4 for 4 shots. That's 64 damage per volley, per thor. Meaning, 2 hits will kill a muta before you upgrade at all.
then, consider return damage. Even if you have massed thors vs mass mutas, you have each set of 3 muta (which cost more than a thor) doing 8+2+1, or thereabouts damage, due to armor. That's about 11 damage per shot, or 33 damage per volley. Compared to the thor's better armor, double damage attack, massively superior range, and repairability. And that's mass thors versus mass muta.
Even assuming that the attack rate is double for muta (guess, haven't tested), that would put the thor against 4 muta as 128 damage to kill the first muta, 96 to kill the second, 64 to kill the third, and 32 to finish the fight.... Meaning the thor would still have 80 hit points left. And that neglect mass repair, when I bet a thor could kill 5 mutalisks, and possibly even a 6th, though the splash damage would hurt a lot of scv's. And that's just one thor. A pair of thors can work together to one shot muta.
Then consider the range difference. The thor has ridiculous range, making him almost garunteed to get the first shot. And he's also great in base defense in general, as he is really strong versus banelings and roaches, and I suspect, not terrible against small amounts of hydralisks.
What about the thor makes him bad against muta? He has a ton of hit points, some armor, a brutal anti air attack, and the range to really punish a player who is trying to outmaneuver him. Plus, mass repair seems like an extremely good option.
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On March 07 2010 03:42 RPGabe wrote:
It's important that you keep SCVs around set to auto-repair, so they'll keep them topped off. After that, it's just a matter of making sure they don't get swarmed using Marines or Hellion backup.
THIS.
Thors require either SCVs (for endurance) or Medivacs (for mobility) to do anything. They also require a good army composition to avoid counters. If you have these though, they'll steamroll anything.
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On March 07 2010 04:19 timmins wrote:
Why exactly are thors bad versus mutas?
Just theorycrafting here... but 10 damage per shot, +6 damage vs light, X4 for 4 shots. That's 64 damage per volley, per thor. Meaning, 2 hits will kill a muta before you upgrade at all.
then, consider return damage. Even if you have massed thors vs mass mutas, you have each set of 3 muta (which cost more than a thor) doing 8+2+1, or thereabouts damage, due to armor. That's about 11 damage per shot, or 33 damage per volley. Compared to the thor's better armor, double damage attack, massively superior range, and repairability. And that's mass thors versus mass muta.
Even assuming that the attack rate is double for muta (guess, haven't tested), that would put the thor against 4 muta as 128 damage to kill the first muta, 96 to kill the second, 64 to kill the third, and 32 to finish the fight.... Meaning the thor would still have 80 hit points left. And that neglect mass repair, when I bet a thor could kill 5 mutalisks, and possibly even a 6th, though the splash damage would hurt a lot of scv's. And that's just one thor. A pair of thors can work together to one shot muta.
Then consider the range difference. The thor has ridiculous range, making him almost garunteed to get the first shot. And he's also great in base defense in general, as he is really strong versus banelings and roaches, and I suspect, not terrible against small amounts of hydralisks.
What about the thor makes him bad against muta? He has a ton of hit points, some armor, a brutal anti air attack, and the range to really punish a player who is trying to outmaneuver him. Plus, mass repair seems like an extremely good option.
Thors build slowly, don't do as much as you'd think vs muta, and by the time you have a good push going with Thors, if he has enough mutas, he will roll them quickly. This is based off my own games in Beta.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I think the Thor does fine vs Mutas until they start reaching huge numbers... at which point you should have ravens.
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I don't get why thors are easy to focus down. You aren't going to be keeping them all by themselves, now are you? I assume, you would mass them at your mineral lines, and even build a couple turrets so that when you are ready to move out, you aren't leaving your base undefended.
If anything, they should be really really hard to focus down, as they can support each other without even being in the same zip code, given how badly they outrange pretty much everything. Plus, lots of surface area means easy repairing.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
right now its ability seems to be pretty useless. Thor is hella strong against Ultralisks, but focus-firing is far stronger than using its big guns
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EPT
