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(-10 siege damage, -20 unsiege damage)
I believe you mean 15 +10 to armored unsiege damage. The tank actually does more DPS unsieged in sc1 than it does in sc2 because it attacks twice as fast. The siege mode attack is also considerably faster. Factor in that it doesn't overkill anymore, and tanks still have a place in the Terran army.
Yes, they are expensive. I think they should be reduced from 3 supply to 2.
As for vs Thors, Tanks have a clearly defined roles. Thors have no splash on land and their attack is slow. They are single target killers, aka Ultralisks. Tanks are best against stuff like Stalkers, Hydras, M&M&M, things that will kill a Thor in a few seconds because the Thor wastes all of its firepower on that one target.
The Thor is big, and that's a good thing. It keeps those lanky dawgz from wrecking your shit. Thors are giant, meaty walls you stick in appropriate locations for great profit.
Thors are great vs Muta. Don't try them vs Mustache Lords. It ain't gonna work out.
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On March 07 2010 04:19 timmins wrote:
Then consider the range difference.The thor has ridiculous range, making him almost garunteed to get the first shot. And he's also great in base defense in general, as he is really strong versus banelings and roaches, and I suspect, not terrible against small amounts of hydralisks.
The Thor doesn't have such a huge range against air (and that's too bad  ). It's range 4 if i remember correctly. Muta are range 3 but they have mobility so it's a pain in the ass to manage some Thor against them.
I'm not saying Thor sucks against them but there's others factors. Nevertheless they own ground unit long range style.
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Thors are not good when opening bio imo but I love going the Moon build as mech and expand aggressively with almost no units. Just Thor / some Tanks and making all the CCs into Planetary Fortresses. Seems like this only works on maps where main and nat are close together and third is in a line with those two. So the only maps I've won with this build on is Scrap Station and Metalopolis. Since the three bases can be defended decently with one siege line and slow thors (and the added vikings vs air).
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Actually, the thor DOES have a huge range versus air. It's ten. I just checked sc2armory.com, and then loaded up the beta myself and tested. I can't, of course, without a key, test against mutas, but one thor can solo 3 banshees without getting repaired or having any upgrades. It's fairly close, but he still wins, and banshees do WAY more damage than mutalisks.
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thors are hard counter to muta since they do bonus damage against light air and light ground
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the thor has been a pretty big letdown thus far
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Dont know about balance, but it FEELS like the Thor should have more armor
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Thors are good vs Ultras in TvZ
They are a strong and underused unit I think
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i've seen it contribute to fights. it doesn't really have a strong niche, but it has a decent attack against everything and it attracts fire from your opponent - the army it supports is doing most of the damage but a support of 4 thors or so is nothing to sneeze at, so does the opponent focus down the thors while taking full damage from the rest of the army, or ignore the thors at risk of a barrage, not to mention all the support it's providing to both gtg and gta. it won't take care of either of these things by itself but i think the point is that until the thors are gone, the terran army can still address both to a limited degree. i'm really curious to see how all this overlap in sc2 plays out over the years.
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i love how people think the tank got nerfed. the tank is 100x better in sc2 than broodwar.
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isn't it less that it got nerfed than there are better counters to it now?
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On March 07 2010 06:34 danl9rm wrote:
i love how people think the tank got nerfed. the tank is 100x better in sc2 than broodwar.
No it's not , but it's still a good unit in any MU to have .
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You know, when build orders and unit usage methods become more and more defined, and people start defending 2 base off 3 tanks and a bunker, I wanna see strats that involve 3 base thor-BCs and 2 base tank-heavy marine tank composition. Like 10 tanks without siege at the front soaking melee damage with armor ups while marines dps from behind.
Kinda like what it is today in warfare, since tanks in mobile mode fire so much faster than SC1. Collossi would absolutely rape the tanks, but the marines ought to be able to destroy everything else, the tanks are just there as meatshields and cover for the marines.
Also, anyone thinks that vikings in ground mode look alot like thors?
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Definitely the thor right now. Siege tanks are really only good against cost effective units like Hydras and Roaches, the thor is overall much better to take out the "big units" of each race.
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On March 07 2010 05:05 timmins wrote:
Actually, the thor DOES have a huge range versus air. It's ten. I just checked sc2armory.com, and then loaded up the beta myself and tested. I can't, of course, without a key, test against mutas, but one thor can solo 3 banshees without getting repaired or having any upgrades. It's fairly close, but he still wins, and banshees do WAY more damage than mutalisks.
My bad, you're right. 10 range, 4 attacks. They're beast on paper.
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Tank is better vs tier 1 masses while thor is meant to take out tier 2 and 3 units.
I like sc2 tank cause it does 60 dmg to everything and atks faster. my only thing against the tank is that it's now a support unit rather than the heart and soul of the terran army...
i rly hate that thors don't do splash, but 90 dmg to a single unit is pretty good for sniping stuff. However, there is usually very little to snipe besides spellcasters and collosi...
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On March 07 2010 06:52 sArite_nite wrote:
Also, anyone thinks that vikings in ground mode look alot like thors?
eh... they're both walkers, so i guess yeah. vikings have that backwards knee walk thing going on though like the goliath had, and they have gatling guns.
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I agree with the sentiment that the thor "feels" like it needs a lot of armor, gven the look of it. But a unit that is meant to be countered by lots of little things with many weak attacks, like zealots and zerglings, Would be a fair bit too powerful If it came with a lot of stock armor. Even 1 armor is pretty good against a zergling.
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Thor needs splash damage to it's anti air rockets. It would be a perfect counter to mass mutas then. Maybe as an upgrade at factory tech lab? It's kind of empty anyway.
Heh, I just noticed Viking and Thor are only terran units without some kind of special upgrade. It's understandable for massable Viking (although speed upgrade wouldn't hurt there), but for Thor, the supposed pinacle of factory units?
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thors annihilate ultras in tvz because of its ability. so if u see a few ultras around u can use thors to target them with its ability acting almost like an eradiate as long as u can keep it alive. cant really think of any other use for them other then taking down ccs/nex/hatches/ultras with its 500 dmg cannon thingy. just about anything and verything can take thor down. there only really dangerous if u mass them tho.
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EPT
