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On March 03 2010 19:07 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
In the end it isn't blizzard that gets hurt by Kespa's arrogance however.. it will be the proteams/kespa. Going to war with the company that CREATED/MAINTAINS and OWNS the game you base your entire existence sounds absolutely retarded.
Yes I understand the gray area involved and the "complicated" actuality of this but.. I cannot imagine kespa benefiting in the end from this "war."
better die for something than live for nothing , im totally pro-kespa
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On March 03 2010 18:48 Waxangel wrote:
Blizzard Korea representatives said there were some internal scheduling misunderstandings.
"6'o clock yea?" .. "Yea!"
6 AM Proteams : "Where is Blizz for the dinner lulz?!"
6 PM Blizzard : "FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!"
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On March 03 2010 19:47 MaD.pYrO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2010 19:43 T.O.P. wrote:
I wonder. Do Blizzard retains all rights to games played by it's users? If I play a game, does Blizzard own my replay? If they don't how can Blizzard charge for a license when it's the players (Kespa) who are creating the content? Your replay is just a file on your computer, there's no real ownership to it so it's not quite the same. But if you intended to make money off of showing your replay Blizzard would be entitled to a piece of the cake since they spent 7 years + and alot of money and hard work on creating the game that you would essentially be making money off of.With that being said, seeing how Blizzard sponsored GOM and made them "certified" it really seems like they want to support E-Sport financially, not charge for it, they just want the control of what people are doing with their game, and don't want others to profit from their work. Edit: They don't own "The match" that you played, they just own the platform you played it on, a match is just a series of specific events in time.
How come Ford/Subaru/GM/Chevrolet/etc. don't make money (control) from the cars racing in premier races across the world? Because you own that product once you buy it and you can do with it as you want since it is your property. Blizzard is not entitled to anything once you buy their product. When I buy something I expect to own it.
Anyways, let's be done with this. I hope Kespa goes down the proverbial toilet. There is money to be had, and someone else will fill the void, and you can't get much worse than Kespa....so whoever it is by default would at least be somewhat better!
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On March 03 2010 19:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
lol there are enough talented, diligent korean SC players that the current roster of every pro SC team can be totally absent from SC2 and there will still be a large korean presence
thats not actually really true. most of the talent in sc is already in teams, obviously you get new players coming up but the kind of player who will excel at a new game is few and far between given the robotic style that sc kinda forces on young players trying to make it. if the pro teams stay out of sc2 its gonna be the war3 players on top of korean sc2. i dont actually know many good war3 koreans there are, obviously people like moon and lyn will be good, but itll be absolutely nothing compared to having sc progamers switch.
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yeah i'm interested of how this will be resolved... blizzard controls the leagal rights of their products, kespa to a great extent controls the media and the pro teams who would deliver the final product to the audience. and i highly doubt that blizzard will be able establish it's own leagues as successfully as kespa (proleague and starleagues)
they must come to a agreement or blizzard will have to go through the long and painful process of creating their own pro-scene.
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well, Blizzard can claim any rights it wants in the EULA - but it's up to the courts to decide which parts are reasonable and which parts are struck down. And I do think Korean courts will be sympathetic to Korean businesses. (not a racist claim - many countries are like this)
However, don't forget the teams like Kespa, they created it, it's the players who don't benefit. And although some may argue that Kespa holds even the teams' interests back, the teams want things that way. Kespa keeps the product (starcraft shows) regular and predictable, tries to keep team costs down, etc. to benefit the corporate sponsors of the entire show.
I'm not happy Blizzard routes all multiplayer games through battle.net even those that don't need it (like LAN), so this is a fight I hope Blizzard doesn't necessarily entirely win. And I really don't think esports currently are profitable enough that there's enough to cut in another party. Pro Starcraft works in South Korea because of the locals' efforts to make it big, not really due to Blizzard's actions, and it's still pretty niche.
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Just because something is written in EULA it does not mean that this is the law. If contract is against laws of the country then it has no power, just like you can legally copy your program despite the junk that is written in EULA. Blizzard can't do anything about SC1 progaming, with SC2 it can be more complex as now you will have to log to they servers, but then what will Blizzard do? Shut down SC2 pros accounts? Could KeSPA sue blizzard for that?
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On March 03 2010 19:50 zee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2010 19:35 Scorch wrote:
KeSPA better shut the hell up, or else they'll get major problems trying to make big money playing Blizzard games, in SC2's case even on Blizzard's servers. The Korean Starcraft phenomenon yields huge profits for Blizzard, but that doesn't mean KeSPA can fuck with Blizz as they please. ... Or they could just keep playing SC1, which as of right now is better as an esport.
But for how long will this work if all the cool kids buy SC2? Sponsors invest where they get the widest audience. Also, I don't know if Blizz could stop KeSPA/OGN/MBC SC1 activities if they wanted and only tolerated them until now.
What I know for sure is that I wouldn't want to escalate a dispute with a multi-billion dollar company like Activision/Blizzard to a legal level.
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On March 03 2010 19:55 Rothbardian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2010 19:47 MaD.pYrO wrote:On March 03 2010 19:43 T.O.P. wrote:
I wonder. Do Blizzard retains all rights to games played by it's users? If I play a game, does Blizzard own my replay? If they don't how can Blizzard charge for a license when it's the players (Kespa) who are creating the content? Your replay is just a file on your computer, there's no real ownership to it so it's not quite the same. But if you intended to make money off of showing your replay Blizzard would be entitled to a piece of the cake since they spent 7 years + and alot of money and hard work on creating the game that you would essentially be making money off of.With that being said, seeing how Blizzard sponsored GOM and made them "certified" it really seems like they want to support E-Sport financially, not charge for it, they just want the control of what people are doing with their game, and don't want others to profit from their work. Edit: They don't own "The match" that you played, they just own the platform you played it on, a match is just a series of specific events in time. How come Ford/Subaru/GM/Chevrolet/etc. don't make money (control) from the cars racing in premier races across the world? Because you own that product once you buy it and you can do with it as you want since it is your property. Blizzard is not entitled to anything once you buy their product. When I buy something I expect to own it. Anyways, let's be done with this. I hope Kespa goes down the proverbial toilet. There is money to be had, and someone else will fill the void, and you can't get much worse than Kespa....so whoever it is by default would at least be somewhat better!
I think you should read the Terms of use and licence agreement. You don't own shit but are given permission to use the game which is still the property of the creator of it.
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On March 03 2010 19:05 Romanian from wrote:
KeSPA is make players and teams listen so progamer not like Blizzard
What is this i don't even
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Wow, Kespa makes me so angry everytime I read about this issue.
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On March 03 2010 19:24 esla_sol wrote:
one of the reasons i thought wc3 was a failed game was because of the lack of korean support (not that they didnt try). esports just isnt popular enough around the globe. the infrastructure the koreans made for sc1 is really remarkable. sc2 will be an international hit, however i feel without support from the korean pro scene it will not survive.
If i remember correctly Wc3 worked pretty well in Korea for time but it failed because of the cheating incident. They lost the public trust after that
There's an article on it somewhere on TL.
edit : it was in one of the SC2 article The Short Happy Life of Saint Snorlax MBC Map Scandal
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On March 03 2010 20:16 sib-pelle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2010 19:05 Romanian from wrote:
KeSPA is make players and teams listen so progamer not like Blizzard What is this i don't even
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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I dunno but i expect to own the product that i buy. If not why even bother?
That said i guess that kespa will be losing out even though i feel that they are doing somethibg just to protect their interests since everything that had made starcraft bw so popular was due to the fact that people like flash boxer saviour and every living scbw legend showed them stuff that was never intended to be part of the game.(muta stacking)
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I think what is being left out of this discussion is the culture in Korea.. I imagine there is a strong sense of solidarity among the teams/KeSPA and the entire organization, I think leaving KeSPA out does nothing to help blizzard or SC2. No matter how much the foreigners here dislike them, they are still the main organizing body of the Starcraft scene.. I think it's a mistake to leave them out.
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On March 03 2010 20:32 streamofhonour wrote:
I dunno but i expect to own the product that i buy. If not why even bother?
That said i guess that kespa will be losing out even though i feel that they are doing somethibg just to protect their interests since everything that had made starcraft bw so popular was due to the fact that people like flash boxer saviour and every living scbw legend showed them stuff that was never intended to be part of the game.(muta stacking)
To be honest, I pretty much agree. Blizzard owes the Korean scene quite a lot for its own success. However, I can also understand Blizzard's point-of-view. It's a company after all. All in all, I think KESPA will be fighting a losing battle if they go on with this. It might take a while but the Korean youngsters will end up prefering newer games and the foreigner scenes will catch up.
I hope they come into some agreement, I really do.
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I honestly think that most of you guys here are totally wrong.. So what if B made the game? without KeSPA SC would be dead long time ago. It's like saying England(or whoever came up with soccer) has the right to claim UEFA CL as their own? Or? Is this what people are trying to say?
This meeting is like if the queen of England went to to Milan, Barcelona and Real Madrid saying they should come play this new sport (lets call it "soccer 2") and stealing them from UEFA. Honestly, pretty ridicoulus move from B. This shows that B realizes how much Korean pro gaming scene means to the game itself, and im sure they are willing to put some money out to get them over to SC2.
Even if KeSPA has made some bad stuff during the years with some rules here and there, they are still #1 in Korea. I'm pretty sure the teams see them as fathers, and the spectators of the game see them as creators of this scene.
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Those pro teams will never turn KeSPA down. It is just kind of Korean culture, they are very protective, thats what make Korea become a economic power so fast as they are right now. They ditched the foreign car and use Korean cars when they were worse products compare to US and Jap cars.
Same can be said for SC2. Pro teams will back KeSPA decision and will ignore SC2. We can only hope that somehow KeSPA and Blizzard will both back down and try to listen to each other.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 03 2010 20:53 _EmIL_ wrote:
I honestly think that most of you guys here are totally wrong.. So what if B made the game? without KeSPA SC would be dead long time ago. It's like saying England(or whoever came up with soccer) has the right to claim UEFA CL as their own? Or? Is this what people are trying to say?
This meeting is like if the queen of England went to to Milan, Barcelona and Real Madrid saying they should come play this new sport (lets call it "soccer 2") and stealing them from UEFA. Honestly, pretty ridicoulus move from B. This shows that B realizes how much Korean pro gaming scene means to the game itself, and im sure they are willing to put some money out to get them over to SC2.
Even if KeSPA has made some bad stuff during the years with some rules here and there, they are still #1 in Korea. I'm pretty sure the teams see them as fathers, and the spectators of the game see them as creators of this scene.
You REALLY need to be educated on the development of the Starcraft scene because everything you just wrote is so wrong.
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Please enlighten me. Don't just say im wrong, say where and give what you think.
I'm fairly new to SC community but this is my impression. Exactly how is it then? And can someone confirm what this guy is saying?
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EPT
