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On March 02 2010 00:04 Artosis wrote:
ok? so? no one in sc1 makes more than 5k a year cept idra. a few will. so they switch. the entire scene moving over is good + healthy.
That was sort of my point, no one who have been playing BW have been making money so people are obviously playing the game for other reasons, still now everyone seems crazy delusional and expecting to make lots of money despite that very few will manage it and this seem to be the main reason for lots of people changing game. Hence I think people are changing the game for all the wrong reasons, you even have people like Inka saying he don really like the game but he follows the money. That leads back to my original question how much money do people really think it will be in this game?
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If sc2 was never announced, how big do you think the foreign scene would be right now? I doubt that there would even be a TSL if not for sc2. That's debatable, but what's not is that a good majority of us (pro's and noobs included) just want to play sc2, and for many of us we've wanted to play it for over ten years. You shouldn't be surprised at people jumping ship.
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On March 02 2010 00:09 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 00:04 Artosis wrote:
ok? so? no one in sc1 makes more than 5k a year cept idra. a few will. so they switch. the entire scene moving over is good + healthy. That was sort of my point, no one who have been playing BW have been making money so people are obviously playing the game for other reasons, still now everyone seems crazy delusional and expecting to make lots of money despite that very few will manage it and this seem to be the main reason for lots of people changing game. Hence I think people are changing the game for all the wrong reasons, you even have people like Inka saying he don really like the game but he follows the money. That leads back to my original question how much money do people really think it will be in this game?
To phrase it concisely: Foreign players playing Broodwar have 0 chance of making good money. Might be blunt but come on, who is going to catch up to Korean A team players at this point? Sc2 the playing field is leveled again, so foreigners have the same chance/
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I don't know why this is an issue..i feel like you have the wrong mindset - SC2 isn't KILLING the SC1 community...The community is simply evolving. We've been tapping B for 10 years.
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On March 02 2010 00:07 TestSubject893 wrote:SC2 will have the infrastructure and sponsorship needed to allow competition to reach a whole new level, even for those players who are not going to be directly competing for cash prizes or Blizzard's "Pro" ladder. I personally can't wait. 
Its a big presumption all these sponsors are going to come out of the woodwork just for SC2. If they had to chose a game to sponsor they'd still go for something more mainstream like Halo, CoD, WoW which already have huge bases but only Halo gets much attention.
Oh as for foreigners versus Koreans, when will that even happen often unless the foreigners go to korea especially for tournaments, the Koreans will be playing SC1 for at least another 2 years minimum as its so established.
The only way to compete with full-time paid professionals of any sport is if you devote yourself to it and can afford to put in the hours they can so you either already can support yourself for the time it'll take to become pro-level or not.
I think the pro's of SC2 in the foreign community will be high-school students, uni students who have the time to put into the game other then ppl that work any old job to make ends meat and play tonnes. Someone said they work as a pizza delivery guy and thats how they are gonna pay to keep playing; thats probably the way to be able to play tonnes.
Koreans will if they take up SC2 dominate simply because of there infrastructure that already exists and there ability to churn out more pro's consistently to give them the ideal environment to improve at the fastest rate.
A way for foreigners to excel is if there are a huge number of foreigners playing at a high level together. This 'should' happen naturally thanks to the new ladder system. But to drive ppl the in-game tournaments system needs to be really aggressive imo. Like achievements and unlock-ables for tournament wins like in Wc3 but something more substantial then just avatars.
Meh, who knows what'll happen just wait and see.
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I think it's really just the fact that most people have been playing starcraft for 5-10 years, and lots of people have become bored of it. Starcraft II is something fresh and we have been waiting for a long time.
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On March 02 2010 00:13 Adeeler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 00:07 TestSubject893 wrote:SC2 will have the infrastructure and sponsorship needed to allow competition to reach a whole new level, even for those players who are not going to be directly competing for cash prizes or Blizzard's "Pro" ladder. I personally can't wait. Its a big presumption all these sponsors are going to come out of the woodwork just for SC2. If they had to chose a game to sponser they'd still go for something more mainstream like Halo, CoD, WoW which already have huge bases but only Halo gets much attention.
Many games have tried and failed, merely because there is no interest from the community. That isn't an issue with SC2, since it's just picking up where SCBW left off. ESL and ZOTAC already have SC2 cups, which brought in tons of players, despite being both a closed beta, and split between regions. Sponsors will go where customers go.
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Foreigners play mostly for fun, so it's easy to switch or spend some time with a new game. The korean players are bound by contract and make a living out of playing SC1. All leagues in Korea are SC1, the team is playing SC1 leagues -> you play SC1.
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On March 01 2010 23:37 MadNeSs wrote:
Is SC2 really that good, Amber?
I was wondering the same ... you are one of the few talking about it in excitement when comparing it to SC1 ...
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On March 02 2010 00:13 Adeeler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 00:07 TestSubject893 wrote:SC2 will have the infrastructure and sponsorship needed to allow competition to reach a whole new level, even for those players who are not going to be directly competing for cash prizes or Blizzard's "Pro" ladder. I personally can't wait. Its a big presumption all these sponsors are going to come out of the woodwork just for SC2. If they had to chose a game to sponser they'd still go for something more mainstream like Halo, CoD, WoW which already have huge bases but only Halo gets much attention.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will be almost as "mainstream" as those games. I know a lot of people that didn't even realize that people still played BW that are really excited for SC2, but maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there because I want it to be true. 
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On March 02 2010 00:23 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 00:13 Adeeler wrote:On March 02 2010 00:07 TestSubject893 wrote:SC2 will have the infrastructure and sponsorship needed to allow competition to reach a whole new level, even for those players who are not going to be directly competing for cash prizes or Blizzard's "Pro" ladder. I personally can't wait. Its a big presumption all these sponsors are going to come out of the woodwork just for SC2. If they had to chose a game to sponser they'd still go for something more mainstream like Halo, CoD, WoW which already have huge bases but only Halo gets much attention. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will be almost as "mainstream" as those games. I know a lot of people that didn't even realize that people still played BW that are really excited for SC2, but maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there because I want it to be true.
No you're right, a big part of the wc3 and the sc community will flock to this game. Even talking to complete casual gamers that barely play video games are pumped for SC2. Same thing on certain mmorpg forums, they're actually getting the game.
So yeah.. SC2 will be quite the "mainstream" game. While the SC/wc3 community will make out the more hardcore crowd, all the other gamers will create a larger casual crowd.
The modding community will make sure the game becomes even more popular with the mods such as a new dota SC2 version.
e-sport oriented video game with huge player base = success.
Just my predictions.
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On March 01 2010 23:58 IdrA wrote:i lost all my skill when i started playing protoss so i cant really go back even if i wanted to 
You cant, but you can start a truer path; zerg.
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On March 01 2010 23:52 Artosis wrote:
we are all switching over because support for sc1 is leaving immediately. sc2 will take over all rts tournaments.
I just got really, really depressed.
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While I hope that I'll be proven wrong, I think almost everyone is delusional about the expected impact of SC2. Sure, it will be a modern and very good RTS, but I doubt how its popularity will evolve and that sponsors will appear out of nowhere to pay all this money everyone is expecting.
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i still play clan wars and im also in a ingoing bwml in gosugamers. but obviosuly i agree with the main point, sc2 is gonna lower the standards ALOT in foreign scene skill level, personally i will stop improve and start getting alittle worse every day at sc cause i stopped training
i dont really see this as a bad thing. sc2 is here and its awesome, it has the exact same feeling as sc has imo, speed and strategy. i hope everyone moves on to sc2 when it releases and gives it a real chance. everyone who i met ingame of top foreigners (dimaga, white ra, infernal) and more has all said it got nice potential and they like the game (accepting its imba and giving blizzard time to balance)
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I think it is healthy for the scene that everyone is inspired to switch over and make money. You even have WC3 players wanting to become pro. Everyone sees the potential and don't want to miss their opportunity. I think SC2 WILL EVENTUALLY be more famous than sc2 and have a pro scene in a lot more countries. Also as a spectator, SC2 is a lot more fun to watch than sc2. I can't wait to see the builds/strata that unfold in pro matches for sc2.
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it's just that they know sc1 has survived 10+ years of constant evolution in the gaming biz (graphics, gameplay wise etc.) and still kept its fascination to them. apart from that they have the whole infrastructure geared to sc1. this game is timeless in a sense and why should they switch prematurely before even knowing if the korean proscene isn't conservative and still values their old but established game higher than the new fancy one which may wear off as years go by (unlike sc1).
the comparison to CS is quite good:
SC1 = CS 1.6
SC2 = CS:Source
cs1.6 is as old as sc1 and still it remained more popular than its newer brother - why? because the feel of the game - despite the "shitty" graphics - was just superior and couldn't be emulated - the "what you get out of the game".
the big question is: what do the koreans want out of starcraft? and can sc2 satisfy what they want and what they value highly in sc1 or does sc1 have similar unique qualities like cs1.6 which cannot be emulated? maybe these crazy mechanic monsters actually LOVE these additional gameplay barriers like missing mbs/automine because it gives them a higher challenge in their nerdiness to take games to the extreme (analogy: *click*).
foreigners aren't as crazy as koreans. they'll bitch about missing mbs and automine, because it's not up to date, doesn't feel comfortable etc.. they don't see an extra challenge in it which tackles their ambition to become "crazy" in things which are actually pretty dull (sc1 macro) "why should I play an old game if the mechanics in WCIII are way more comfortable?".
I think the "success" - the _long term_ success - of sc2 (whether it can become as timeless as sc1 is) will depend on the question in how far blizzard is willing to make profound changes to their game in this beta stage and if they listen to the right people. if we had a beta phase of half a year and they would implement 100% of TL's suggestions, I guess this game can become pretty fucking awesome from what it is now still. If they are too lazy/indifferent/have other things in mind this game will be cool, will have a huge scene (take WCIII's place at least) but will have to be replaced by something better in the not too distant future.
I derive this whole argument from the question: would anyone in THIS scene have been sad if there never had been a sc2 and we would have been "forced" to continue watching/playing sc1? if I look at the hype of an osl final I can't help but think that it could have gone on for another 10 years with the real fans being content with a game "perfect as it is".
let's hope sc2 will evolve as sc1 did and become as great / even greater. at this stage nobody can really tell.
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Bulgaria5679 Posts
On March 01 2010 23:58 IdrA wrote:i lost all my skill when i started playing protoss so i cant really go back even if i wanted to
Oh Idra how could you ... + Show Spoiler +Should have stuck with Terran or play zerg instead
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On March 02 2010 00:04 Artosis wrote:
ok? so? no one in sc1 makes more than 5k a year cept idra. a few will. so they switch. the entire scene moving over is good + healthy.
What about Nony?
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On March 02 2010 01:11 Dr.Frost wrote:
I think SC2 WILL EVENTUALLY be more famous than sc2 and have a pro scene in a lot more countries. Also as a spectator, SC2 is a lot more fun to watch than sc2.
I completely agree...
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EPT
