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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On February 26 2010 18:11 Schnake wrote: Well you can check this post and protosses didn't seem bad at all: Proof that Terran is weak? top 8: 21 Protosses, 19 Zergs, 3 Randoms, 12 Terrans. Top Ranks: 4 p, 2 z, 1 random. 0 t can we get one of these plat division rankings for US servers? | ||
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Hollow
Canada2180 Posts
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
- HT ability change - Mothership Mass Recall added. I missed it ingame. - Infestor abilities changes What i dont like: - Mothership Temporal Rift removed. It was rather cool ability. Maybe even cooler than Vortex.  - No Roach/Hydra nerf, especially Roach - No Nydus nerf, it's so imbalanced - No Sentry changes, it kinda sucks in current build | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Can me has your key? k thx! Seriously guys, this is the first patch in closed BETA. I know it's lame and redundant to say, but quit the whining about your scores, and test the frigging game or make room for the people who will. Just see it that way: If Protoss actually becomes hard to play in SC2, you will not be a newbie A-Mover anymore :-P [Bring on the flaming now!!] | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
This shouldn't be a discussion of "this race beats this race". What they should be patching for is interesting gameplay and overwhelming strategies. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
0 30 40 1,8 60 40 2,5 60 80 3,6 90 80 5 90 120 5,4 120 120 7,2 150 120 7,5 150 160 9 180 160 10 180 200 10,8 210 200 12,5 210 240 12,6 240 240 14,4 270 240 15 270 280 16,2 300 280 17,5 300 320 18 330 320 19,8 360 320 20 360 360 So at many points at time previously the reaper even if undisturbed and being able to constantly fire was stronger then he is now. There are some timing windows where the new reaper is stronger though. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 26 2010 20:10 CharlieMurphy wrote: so basically reapers are better for early game bunker rush or something then? Basically they are less "hit and run able". If you are running around and only stopping for one shot before moving again you must stop a lot more and move less to do the same damage. In other words it's a nerf to their "harass" damage on buildings. But if they are left to just attack a building they will do the same damage. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On February 26 2010 19:53 Jenia6109 wrote: What I like in this patch: - HT ability change - Mothership Mass Recall added. I missed it ingame. - Infestor abilities changes What i dont like: - Mothership Temporal Rift removed. It was rather cool ability. Maybe even cooler than Vortex. - No Roach/Hydra nerf, especially Roach - No Nydus nerf, it's so imbalanced - No Sentry changes, it kinda sucks in current build posts like that show why its good that blizzard seems to do things seemi slowish. hydra nerf? they are a 2nd tier 2 supply 90hp unti with no armor and no special ability. also a roahc nerf would be overall very heavy on the zerg atm since they are pretty 1dimensional right now and are 70% roach vs evrything. they first need to sort out how to give zerg other possibilities before they just nerf roaches. and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like? nydus while sick keep zerg somewhat onpar with all the cliffhopping,walking,blinking,dropping and warping of T&P. only time will tell if its too strong beeing a new mechanic mnost players dont even know about (hasuobs didnt even know how the mechanics of nydus were before yesterday in the esl thing) | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
But i still think they should make more radical changes with completely removing certain Units and implementing new ones. There are several examples of "good" units in SC2 and several examples of "bad" ones: Good Units should have the following qualities: 1) They should be versatile. 2) They shouldn't just be built to counter another Unit(-Type). 3) They should make Micro possible and encourage it. 4) They should synergise well with other Units Some good examples in SC2: Reaper/Hellion/Marauder: 1) Reaper and Hellion are fast and can be used to harrass, to defend quickly, but are also good in bigger Battles. 2) They don't just counter other Units and if they're too good against a certain unit-type, you can easily balance them and because they're so versatile, you don't make them useless. 3) Hellions are very fast, they're attack has interesting Aoe you have to micro well etc. With Reapers, youc an also do nice Micro with hopping up and down a ramp etc. marauders are also nice, because you have to target as many different units as you can, to utilize the slow properly. 4) Hellions are well with Dropships, to protect tanklines etc. Marauders work well with Marines, any type of AoE-Dmg and Reapers are very good in larger groups to destroy buildings, but not as much if they're in small numbers. Now for some bad examples (yes; I really think those units should be kicked out of SC2 immediately, because balancing won't help to make them "good") Immortal, Roach, VoidRay, Collossus: 1) All of the above Units have one certain porpuse or counter a certain amount of Units. They're slow and can't really be Utilized for other purposes than for the single one intended by Blizzard. 2) As said above, they're counter-units and balancing them won't ever do the trick to make them better Units in terms of versatility, micro-possibilities etc. 3) All of the above Units are slow and you really can't do anything else in terms of Micro than A-Move. Compare the Micro-intensity of those Units with Units from SC1 (Mutas / Shuttle+Reaver / Scourge / Spellcasters without intelligent casting / M&M's VS Lurkers / Vulture-Patrol-Button-Micro and Micro against Vulture Mines) - Those aforementioned SC2 Units just feel very slow and boring and totally not versatile compared to the excellent SC1-Units, but also the "good" Units from SC2 I've mentioned before. I also wan't to see changes in the gamemechanics, like: - I don't have a problem with Automining and Multiple-Building-Selection, because Blizz came up with neat stuff to keep players busy in the base macroing. That was because of one reason: The SC-Community raged heavily against MBS and AA, so Blizz had to come up with something. We didn't realize how the better pathfinding, non-microable-units, non-existing mutastacking, intelligent casting etc. would affect the Micro-aspect of the game, because all we were worried about was the Macro - now we have the problem with unsatisfiying micro and that needs to be said and fixed to make SC2 a really great game. | ||
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Konni
Germany3044 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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Nenor
Bulgaria4 Posts
On February 26 2010 16:46 Virtue wrote: Protoss still can't island expo... without recall lulz, anyone else notice that toss has no dropship. What are you talking about?! | ||
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Risepile
China12 Posts
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like? So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss | ||
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RiGun
Argentina155 Posts
On February 26 2010 22:02 Jenia6109 wrote: So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss Guardian shield is a huge advantage against ranged attacks, Force field is excellent to manipulate terrain to your advantage, make a choke smaller, block out of your ramp the zealots and other units, of course you can't only use sentries against zealots, but as a support unit the sentry is excellent. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On February 26 2010 22:02 Jenia6109 wrote: So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss I'm not too excited about Sc2 so far but i can tell you that the sentry is easily the most entairtaining and "fresh" unit. Force field is brilliant. This is one of the few new units in Sc2 that doesn't look bad and boring compared to reavers or vult. edit: ok i understand, haven't played yet so i can't comment on the balance, just wanted to say that i love the concept  | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
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SpiriTx13
Lithuania36 Posts
On February 26 2010 20:25 kickinhead wrote: Some good examples in SC2: Reaper/Hellion/Marauder: 1) Reaper and Hellion are fast and can be used to harrass, to defend quickly, but are also good in bigger Battles. 2) They don't just counter other Units and if they're too good against a certain unit-type, you can easily balance them and because they're so versatile, you don't make them useless. 3) Hellions are very fast, they're attack has interesting Aoe you have to micro well etc. With Reapers, youc an also do nice Micro with hopping up and down a ramp etc. marauders are also nice, because you have to target as many different units as you can, to utilize the slow properly. 4) Hellions are well with Dropships, to protect tanklines etc. Marauders work well with Marines, any type of AoE-Dmg and Reapers are very good in larger groups to destroy buildings, but not as much if they're in small numbers. Now for some bad examples (yes; I really think those units should be kicked out of SC2 immediately, because balancing won't help to make them "good") Immortal, Roach, VoidRay, Collossus: 1) All of the above Units have one certain porpuse or counter a certain amount of Units. They're slow and can't really be Utilized for other purposes than for the single one intended by Blizzard. 2) As said above, they're counter-units and balancing them won't ever do the trick to make them better Units in terms of versatility, micro-possibilities etc. 3) All of the above Units are slow and you really can't do anything else in terms of Micro than A-Move. Compare the Micro-intensity of those Units with Units from SC1 (Mutas / Shuttle+Reaver / Scourge / Spellcasters without intelligent casting / M&M's VS Lurkers / Vulture-Patrol-Button-Micro and Micro against Vulture Mines) - Those aforementioned SC2 Units just feel very slow and boring and totally not versatile compared to the excellent SC1-Units, but also the "good" Units from SC2 I've mentioned before. ROFL, let me guess you are terran player getting owned by these particular bad units :D Yep, marauders and reapers are totally not counter to anything, totally anything except armored, light and buildings... And yeah, we always just A move immortals or void rays to attack anything and we let collossus to go A move over the cliffs... | ||
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