Protoss * Feedback costs 50 energy, no cooldown and has a range of 9. * Mass Recall costs 100 energy, and has a radius of 6.5. * All units cannot move, attack, or cast for a period of 2 seconds before and after Mass Recall.
Terran * Thor splash damage increased from 3 to 5.
Zerg * Infested Terrans can spawn up to 3 units away. (note: likely a data change that is single player only) * Neural Parasite has graphics for a tentacle. * Fungal Growth damage changed from 1.25 to 2.25. * Air-based cocoons gained armor.
Note: leeched from the data files. I make no claims to absolute accuracy or completeness.
TERRAN Viking The armor value for this unit in Fighter Mode has decreased from 1 to 0. The damage done by this unit in Fighter Mode has changed from 6 (+8 armored) to 10 (+4 armored). Reaper The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8. Orbital Command The build time for this upgrade has decreased from 50 to 35. PROTOSS Observer Gravitic Boosters: The cost of this research has decreased from 150 minerals and 150 vespene gas to 100 minerals and 100 vespene gas. High Templar Phase Shift: This ability has been removed from the game. New ability: Feedback - Drains all energy from the target unit and causes damage equal to the amount of energy drained. Colossus The building pathing radius for this unit has decreased from .75 to .5625. Mothership Vortex: The energy cost of this ability has increased from 75 to 100. Vortex: The target radius of this ability has decreased from 3.0 to 2.5. Temporal Rift: This ability has been removed from the game. Wormhole Transit: This ability has been removed from the game. New ability: Mass Recall - Teleports all of the player's units in the target area to the Mothership. Nexus Chrono Boost can no longer target allies. Gateway The build time of this building has increased from 50 to 65. ZERG Infestor Fungal Growth: The damage done by this ability has decreased from 48 to 36. Fungal Growth: This ability now prevents affected units from burrowing. Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability. Terran Infestation: The ability’s energy cost has reduced from 50 to 25 and Infested Terrans now spawn 1 at a time.
BUG FIXES
Addressed an issue causing people to receive an “Internal Battle.net Error” message with their game client. Muting your microphone will no longer cause your microphone to be turned off in the operating system once the program has exited. Please note that the voice chat functionality has only partially been implemented. There are many known issues with voice chat that we expect to address in a future patch. The “Medium” graphical settings were reconfigured to work better on appropriate machines. The video settings “auto-detect” functionality has been reset as a result. Added a frame rate limiter to the game menus to prevent some graphics cards from running at higher frame rates than necessary.
he just took it from the other thread, there aren't official patch-notes yet, so for all we know this might be incorrect, and this is just a useless thread
Hey guys, I've never made an account always lurk though, basically, I don't have a key but I extracted some files to run as a guest, In this mode it allows the game to go back to an older version which allows you to watch replays, currently watching that 2v2 vs David Kim.
On February 26 2010 10:00 JoshSuth wrote: Terran Infestation: The ability’s energy cost has reduced from 50 to 25 and Infested Terrans now spawn 1 at a time.
Thus this can't be the whole patchnotes, is there even an infestation ability in the current build?
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
On February 26 2010 10:11 Shinshady wrote: I wonder how they can really justify mass recall.... or will it not recall probes too (Much's new BM x3? xD)?
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I want to say this affects colossus moving between buildings set up on cliffs. Since buildings have 100% edges now, it does seem kind of weird, but maybe the colossus was too fat to squeeze through odd building placements. Siege tanks are also too fat to get through my choke sometimes, gotta remember to space the bunker out from the walls. =P
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I want to say this affects colossus moving between buildings set up on cliffs. Since buildings have 100% edges now, it does seem kind of weird, but maybe the colossus was too fat to squeeze through odd building placements. Siege tanks are also too fat to get through my choke sometimes, gotta remember to space the bunker out from the walls. =P
yah the colossus can't travel through most building spots without going around. I think there needs to be about a 2-block matrix for the colossus to go through buildings.
I don't know how accurate the notes are considering how bad blizz is with documenting changes in wow, but these are the same notes listed in my launcher while it downloaded the patch.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
No, if it were faked patchnotes they wouldn't had put such obvious mistakes in.
To me it looks like this is just a semi patchnote, aka patch-notes that are just the most recent notes of their inhouse build. So they probably already changed roaches to T2 etc before these notes, and the reason they haven't posted any official notes is because they haven't made the full list complete yet.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
Infester got no infested terran spell in the current beta version.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
Infester got no infested terran spell in the current beta version.
infested terran spawn was the lamest fucking spell they added into the game too. I was so happy when it was removed T_T
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
On February 26 2010 10:01 genwar wrote: I've never seen a unit get so destroyed like the mothership with a single patch lol.
I dunno about destroyed, if those patch notes are true then it has recall now :p
Can you really imagine slowly flying your Mothership into the opponent's base? Sure it still has tonnes of health, but if it gets caught it can't run away. It's nowhere near as expendable as an Arbiter. And just keeping it in your base to bring units back is such a waste of the unit. Or if you keep it with your army as you normally would, then there's no need for recall at all.
Now its the beta players jobs to find all the changes in the build that AREN'T in these patch notes. There is almost always hidden changes, some that can make a huge difference.
On February 26 2010 10:20 Lyzon wrote: I didnt exactly follow every units information so can someone please explain what these moves did:
Temporal Rift Wormhole Transit
Temporal rift makes a unit stunned and invulnerable. Wormhole transit teleports the mothership to one of your buildings.
On February 26 2010 10:22 daedalusmaestro wrote: How could they ignore the Phoenix? It's practically useless. There should be no useless units in SC2. Also, it would balance PVZ well.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Maybe it's a typo and the damage increased to from 20 to 36? People have been complaining that FG doesn't do enough damage, doesn't seem like it would make sense to lower it.
On February 26 2010 10:22 daedalusmaestro wrote: How could they ignore the Phoenix? It's practically useless. There should be no useless units in SC2. Also, it would balance PVZ well.
I've seen some PvZ streams where mass phoenix has raped the zerg.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Maybe it's a typo and the damage increased to from 20 to 36? People have been complaining that FG doesn't do enough damage, doesn't seem like it would make sense to lower it.
These aren't the complete patchnotes... They are the patchnotes from a version you never saw, that version must have had the fungal growth buffed to 48 which obviously was imba so nerfed a bit now again.
On February 26 2010 10:22 daedalusmaestro wrote: How could they ignore the Phoenix? It's practically useless. There should be no useless units in SC2. Also, it would balance PVZ well.
These aren't the complete patchnotes...
Temporal Rift is a Slowing Field, not a stun. It decresases movement and attack speed in an area.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
Its only happened to me a couple of times but double proxy gates were fairly brutal. The extra 10 or so seconds should let a 13 pool finish in time to at least have a chance. From what i hear they were even worse PvP.
On February 26 2010 10:08 Gallows wrote: Hey guys, I've never made an account always lurk though, basically, I don't have a key but I extracted some files to run as a guest, In this mode it allows the game to go back to an older version which allows you to watch replays, currently watching that 2v2 vs David Kim.
How can I futz with the sc2 folder so that it runs an older version? You have to use the blizzard launcher to start up sc2.exe, so I was wondering where it specifies what version it's using. Registry key? Thanks!
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
Infester got no infested terran spell in the current beta version.
infested terran spawn was the lamest fucking spell they added into the game too. I was so happy when it was removed T_T
Yeah it basically blows, I hope it's a typo or something.
And why the hell did they nerf that fungal thing, considering NOBODY used it?
So will the mothership be used defensively now? Or will people sneak it in behind a resource line like a medivac and just recall everything on their enemy's heads?
On February 26 2010 10:22 daedalusmaestro wrote: How could they ignore the Phoenix? It's practically useless. There should be no useless units in SC2. Also, it would balance PVZ well.
Browder said that he expects and wouldn't be unhappy if there were a worthless unit in every race. That being said I have seen a few replays of very good players doing some amazing things with phoenix. Might flukes though.
They didn't nerf it. If it really is 36 damage now, that's nearly double what it used to do. That's potentially harassable, but it still takes two casts to kill probes, and they don't stack. So it won't be easy.
As for infested terran, oh my god, I hope that is not the egg hatching terran. Infest terran building, which was in an earlier build, was not as objectionable. I wonder if the koreans are playing the new patch right now?
Worm hole transit is a big loss for the MS though. That was used all the time against me in my games. I like to counter attack when he attacks me with his army and he would just jump home, stick me in a vortex and then bring his troops back just in time to kill me when i got out of vortex.
It was also used when the MS got into deep trouble and was about to be killed.
Big loss for the Toss.
But Mass recall is gonna be scary. Way faster then a nydus worm.
I'd call these notes out on being fake tbh... Too many errors in it... It seems legit somehow, but the mistakes just seem so weird, let's wait for an official source!
On February 26 2010 10:28 FrozenArbiter wrote: I really don't think the phoenix is useless... From today's ESL games, weren't they used effectively in one of the games between Hasuobs and kaaz?
actually they where used in like 3-4 games . most beeing pvp
On February 26 2010 10:28 FrozenArbiter wrote: I really don't think the phoenix is useless... From today's ESL games, weren't they used effectively in one of the games between Hasuobs and kaaz?
Also, I know they have been somewhat popular lately in PvP (Naz showed me an amazing replay with them being used ).
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
Infester got no infested terran spell in the current beta version.
infested terran spawn was the lamest fucking spell they added into the game too. I was so happy when it was removed T_T
Yeah it basically blows, I hope it's a typo or something.
And why the hell did they nerf that fungal thing, considering NOBODY used it?
The listed values are higher than the in games ones we last saw, more than likely there was an internal build between this one and the one that we were playing on battle net.
These are some serious changes, with more sure to come. They should just release it, let us guinea pigs 'playest' it for a year, then come out with an expansion so we all forget about the horrible first release.... Didn't they do that before?
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
2 gate zealots was the only way to play PvP. Hopefully this nerf will make it easier to tech as Protoss. I always felt nooby getting 2 gates every PvP.
On February 26 2010 10:28 FrozenArbiter wrote: I really don't think the phoenix is useless... From today's ESL games, weren't they used effectively in one of the games between Hasuobs and kaaz?
Also, I know they have been somewhat popular lately in PvP (Naz showed me an amazing replay with them being used ).
On February 26 2010 10:00 JoshSuth wrote: Terran Infestation: The ability’s energy cost has reduced from 50 to 25 and Infested Terrans now spawn 1 at a time.
Thus this can't be the whole patchnotes, is there even an infestation ability in the current build?
yeah i was wondering too, but not that i know of ^^
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
2 gate zealots was the only way to play PvP. Hopefully this nerf will make it easier to tech as Protoss. I always felt nooby getting 2 gates every PvP.
2 gate isnt the only way to play pvp. a lot of people can do 1 gate core tech and wall off easily or get some cannons instead while teching. i think the increased gateway build time is because a lot of people have been doing 9/10 supply double proxy gate in 2v2s which has been really hard to stop.
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
2 gate zealots was the only way to play PvP. Hopefully this nerf will make it easier to tech as Protoss. I always felt nooby getting 2 gates every PvP.
If i wanted to end a game quickly i 3gated!
Seriously though, i've had alot of long PvP games.
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
they buffed the reaper... it now does over 0.6 more DPS
40/2.5 = 16 dps
30/1.8 = 16.66666 dps
But it means it's less effective on the move so hit-and-run attacks should be more ineffective, assuming you have a couple of units to harass the reapers attacking you.
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
This is a BIG fuckin deal! ALL units now can be MCed PERMANENTLY INCLUDING
Colossus Archon Immortal Siege Tank Thor MOTHER SHIP?!! WORKERS!!!!
I would really take a step back and calm down, this is more than likely only a portion of the changes that went in today. The notes only list the changes between an internal build we never saw and the new build. For instance the notes list fungal infection as nerfed
(* Fungal Growth: The damage done by this ability has decreased from 48 to 36.)
However the fungal infect did 20 damage in the version we were playing until this morning. All changes between the beta version we were playing and this internal version we never saw are not documented.
On February 26 2010 10:01 Day[9] wrote: source? : ]
I second that... these notes seem bogus. There aren't even any infested terran in the game and fungal growth stats are wrong... it does 20 damage so how could it get reduced from 48 to 36...
Actually infested terran have been in the game for quite some time. Although some members of the community don't like how they've been implemented (marines pop out of the eggs with armor). Currently they are spawned from the infester.
Infester got no infested terran spell in the current beta version.
infested terran spawn was the lamest fucking spell they added into the game too. I was so happy when it was removed T_T
Yeah it basically blows, I hope it's a typo or something.
And why the hell did they nerf that fungal thing, considering NOBODY used it?
I tired using it once but infester are too slow and the range is too short and the aoe is too small i could barely touch the terran ball.
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
On February 26 2010 10:39 sob3k wrote: DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS!?!?!?
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
This is a BIG fuckin deal! ALL units now can be MCed PERMANENTLY INCLUDING
Colossus Archon Immortal Siege Tank Thor MOTHER SHIP?!! WORKERS!!!!
Did not realize 10 seconds was permanently. Overall Hope they release more keys today
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
no, it means it last 10 seconds. When your infestor dies before the 10 seconds are over, it stops.
On February 26 2010 10:39 sob3k wrote: DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS!?!?!?
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
ALL units now can be MCed PERMANENTLY
well... no they cant.... for 10 seconds or until the infestor is destroyed -_-;;
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
no its the other way around. 10 seconds tops, but shorter if the infestor dies
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
hmm, this could either mean that the duration is ten seconds, no matter what, and less if the infestor is destroyed. OR it could mean that (i was assuming this one since its usually how "channeling" works, the MC is permanent until infestor's channeling is terminated (death), with a minimum MC time of 10sec
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
I guess it depends on how you read it? "Which lasts 10 seconds OR until the Infestor is destroyed". My first reading was 10 seconds or if you kill the infestor it ends sooner, but I'm not entirely sure.
EDIT: Woah, thread moves fast. Already pointed out by half a dozen people before I was able to reply to this.
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
More likely, it means that you get to control a unit for 10 seconds or until the infestor dies, whichever comes first (i.e. kill the infestor to get your units back)
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
French and spanish version are more explicits.
It's the amount of space between buildings, needed for a colossus to take that path. Before, a colossus could only walk between two buildings if they were at least spaced by 0.75 units, now reduced to 0.56.
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
hmm, this could either mean that the duration is ten seconds, no matter what, and less if the infestor is destroyed. OR it could mean that (i was assuming this one since its usually how "channeling" works, the MC is permanent until infestor's channeling is terminated (death), with a minimum MC time of 10sec
EDIT:
somebody go Neural parasite a Mothership for us!!!
On February 26 2010 10:39 sob3k wrote: DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS!?!?!?
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
This is a BIG fuckin deal! ALL units now can be MCed PERMANENTLY INCLUDING
Colossus Archon Immortal Siege Tank Thor MOTHER SHIP?!! WORKERS!!!!
lol perma mind controlled for 10 secs... and we don't even know if this is a cast range channeling thing too.
The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
I think Artosis was being sarcastic. The ability lasts 10 seconds, or less depending if the infestor dies earlier.
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
hmm, this could either mean that the duration is ten seconds, no matter what, and less if the infestor is destroyed. OR it could mean that (i was assuming this one since its usually how "channeling" works, the MC is permanent until infestor's channeling is terminated (death), with a minimum MC time of 10sec
nonono channeling means it has to be channeled for 10 seconds. after 10 seconds it returns to previous ownership
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
I agree, but maybe there was some severe imbalance issue in 2v2 they werent sure how to solve without fucking up 1v1?
On February 26 2010 10:41 Artosis wrote: which lasts 10 seconds = permanently?
or until the infestor is destroyed
I'm guessing the "10 second" thing is incase your infestor dies the moment it parasites something, so you can at least mind control something for a short time.
IMO it means it lasts max 10 seconds. But if your infestor dies before it, the spell ends.
the whole 'or until the infestor dies' just explains what channeling means ..they use it in wow a lot. it just means that if you kill the infestor while it's mind controlling it, the mind control will end immediately.
Well NP is still gonna be limited by the number of infesters and the energy cost of the spell. Even if its still cheap and spam able NP doesn't have that great of range, probably around 7-8 range? Gonna have to get awfully close to the front lines to reach collosi and siege tanks in the rear. And even if the zerg gets the cast off the infester should with micro die quickly to any range generalists in the area; ie hydra, stalkers, M&M
Potential additional info posted by a user on the Battle.net beta forums.
Protoss * Feedback costs 50 energy, no cooldown and has a range of 9. * Mass Recall costs 100 energy, and has a radius of 6.5. * All units cannot move, attack, or cast for a period of 2 seconds before and after Mass Recall.
Terran * Thor splash damage increased from 3 to 5.
Zerg * Infested Terrans can spawn up to 3 units away. * Neural Parasite has graphics for a tentacle. * Fungal Growth damage changed from 1.25 to 2.25. * Air-based cocoons gained armor.
Note: leeched from the data files. I make no claims to absolute accuracy or completeness.
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
I agree, but maybe there was some severe imbalance issue in 2v2 they werent sure how to solve without fucking up 1v1?
I enjoyed the Chrono boost in 2v2, but since the other races Macro abilities were useless to the partner (trade minerals with my MULE yo) they probably figured it for the best.
As for the infester change wording, I read that as they can MC any type of unit, not a huge AoE MC.
On February 26 2010 10:02 Highways wrote: Interesting the Roach didn't change.
Protoss got nerfed hard lol.
Apart from mothership, i dont think theres alot of bad Feedback>>>Phase shift Imo Trade teleport for recall, not a huge loss I dont think changing the collision size or whatever from the colossus will hurt much
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
Just guessing, but its because Zerg and Terrans macro boosters cannot be used on allies? They cant give their Protoss parter a mule or give him 4 more larvae (well idk about if your both zerg but i doubt it? Sooner or later every good 2v2 team would involve at least 1 protoss. Just my assumptions tho.
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
Who knows... I wanted to test it in this early stage with my friend though at one point (both of us not in beta). Do a terran infantry build and get the add on to produce 2x the units. Wondered how beautiful that would have looked!
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
2 gate zealots was the only way to play PvP. Hopefully this nerf will make it easier to tech as Protoss. I always felt nooby getting 2 gates every PvP.
If i wanted to end a game quickly i 3gated!
Seriously though, i've had alot of long PvP games.
Yeah, after both players 2 gate and trade off zealots the game can turn into late game.
On February 26 2010 10:09 Day[9] wrote: what is a "building pathing radius" ?
I think its how the unit acts around buildings when it moves, i think by making the radius smaller they made the colossus not get stuck easily on buildings by mis-rally.
edit: I'm just curious about the gateway build time, what is the justification for that? did a bunch of ppl get 2 gate rushed or something?
2 gate zealots was the only way to play PvP. Hopefully this nerf will make it easier to tech as Protoss. I always felt nooby getting 2 gates every PvP.
If i wanted to end a game quickly i 3gated!
Seriously though, i've had alot of long PvP games.
Yeah, after both players 2 gate and trade off zealots the game can turn into late game.
I've 1gated and blocked off with sentry plenty of times, you can block your ramp and add 2 cannons as well if you so like. The possibilities are endless with a little flexibility.
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
well in larger games like 3v3 all tosses could channel one player, so you could get something ridiculous like one guy with collosi while the opponents just popping out their first stalkers. 50% increase in tech/build time for EVERYTHING is pretty imba if you can chain it.
or, mega-fast DT rush that can hit before opponent can get detection
On February 26 2010 10:05 Xinliben wrote: Oh man, it is like...blizzard actually listens to the community. A lot of these changes are perfect. I thought reapers were fine, but whatever.
Poor mothership, the loss of the wormhole ability is critical.
source??
Blizzard would be pretty fucked if they didn't listen to the community, no?
this patch really cannot be expected to include tester feedback that much. it took a few days for testers to learn the game and find out if X was really balanced or not. the beta was released a week ago, after feedback they'd have to still make a decision, try it out, and send it in for Q&A testing approval..just be patient
On February 26 2010 11:03 Teejing wrote: changes are really minor except for ht and mothership; i wonder how such a huge and slow unit could sneak into a base for a recall...
It's not like you have turret rings in sc, and it's not like an 800 hp (shields, hp) unit cares about turrets
I think sensor towers are gonna be useful, tho. Also, it will be nice for protoss when defending vs things like nydus in their main I would imagine.
On February 26 2010 11:03 Teejing wrote: changes are really minor except for ht and mothership; i wonder how such a huge and slow unit could sneak into a base for a recall...
On February 26 2010 11:07 Teejing wrote: yea right, but you also do not want to lose a 400/400 for just one recall, or it has to be one hell of a recall!
Just sad that i never got to use the teleporting mothership : /
Ah this is true, I'd have liked to have used it once as well >.<
On February 26 2010 11:06 Ronald_McD wrote: LOL The Infestor got nerfed? I thought nobody used it as it was
It looks like it got nerfed from an INTERNAL build, but boosted from the first beta build. Because the Infestor's current version of Fungal Growth only does 20 damage.... Also, the new MC is better.
On February 26 2010 11:08 Mohdoo wrote: Gateways going from 50 seconds to 65. Gotta be kidding me. More than 25% increase...
I'm sad they removed Wormhole transit, it would have made proxy pylons that much more useful.
Perhaps they could give it back a weaker version of the same thing if it turns out it needs it, Wormholes to Nexus only or something. As it stands, when Recalling you're pretty much committing your Mothership and Units entirely, its basically all or nothing.
On February 26 2010 10:46 z]Benny wrote: The weirdest thing is the "Nexus - Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.". Why the hell not? I thought it was pretty awesome that they added such cool support for 2v2, now they take it out? How does that help anybody? It added extra awesomeness to 2v2
Just guessing, but its because Zerg and Terrans macro boosters cannot be used on allies? They cant give their Protoss parter a mule or give him 4 more larvae (well idk about if your both zerg but i doubt it? Sooner or later every good 2v2 team would involve at least 1 protoss. Just my assumptions tho.
Yeah, come to think of it that must be it. It was still awesome though. Sigh
On February 26 2010 11:09 killstereo wrote: I'm sad they removed Wormhole transit, it would have made proxy pylons that much more useful.
Perhaps they could give it back a weaker version of the same thing if it turns out it needs it, Wormholes to Nexus only or something. As it stands, when Recalling you're pretty much committing your Mothership and Units entirely, its basically all or nothing.
Yea i agree, instead of removing teleport they could have just upped the mana costs
As a random player, I found the teleport ability on the Mothership to be pretty imbalanced... If they upped the mana cost significantly (say 125) then maybe, but it was pretty trivial to keep it alive indefinitely otherwise.
can other people log in after dling the patch? i get an error message saying invalid login and then an error saying battlenet is down just after putting in the email
On February 26 2010 11:13 IdrA wrote: can other people log in after dling the patch? i get an error message saying invalid login and then an error saying battlenet is down just after putting in the email
On February 26 2010 11:13 IdrA wrote: can other people log in after dling the patch? i get an error message saying invalid login and then an error saying battlenet is down just after putting in the email
No, it seems like no one can login right now (to the US servers at least).
On February 26 2010 11:13 IdrA wrote: can other people log in after dling the patch? i get an error message saying invalid login and then an error saying battlenet is down just after putting in the email
On February 26 2010 11:15 f10esqftw wrote: I'm not sure this is real. This is just some guy's post on the bnet forums, and he cites another non-blizzard document as his source.
On February 26 2010 11:15 LunarC wrote: I'd love to see a PvP with the high templar doing nothing but feedbacking each other. Also I don't call mass recall a nerf. I call it opportunity.
I don't think its really that its any worse in play, it just sucks that an entirely new unit is now simply a giantic old unit.
On February 26 2010 11:15 LunarC wrote: I'd love to see a PvP with the high templar doing nothing but feedbacking each other. Also I don't call mass recall a nerf. I call it opportunity.
I don't think its really that its any worse in play, it just sucks that an entirely new unit is now simply a giantic old unit.
I don't think most people on this site would be too upset if it was removed entirely. Sentiment a lot of people seem to share is it doesn't really belong.
I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
I don't share that sentiment. What makes this unit not belong? The fact that only one can exist at a time? Would removing this limit make it more "Starcraft-y"? It has a pretty low hitpoint count for its cost and it's damage is nothing extremely phenomenal. Now that it has lost its Wormhole Transit ability and its Vortex has recieved a nerf, gunning it down is much easier than before.
On February 26 2010 11:26 Zealotdriver wrote: I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
Lmao. I'm back into Battle.net now. There's a button that says "Patch Notes" but it takes you to that thread on the Battle.net beta forums with nothing in it. =P
On February 26 2010 11:26 Zealotdriver wrote: I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
They tend to do this a lot during beta; its part of the development phase.
Those unofficial changes posted in this thread a few pages ago look correct, too (based on the data files, as stated).
On February 26 2010 11:26 Zealotdriver wrote: I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
That's how beta is....
Units will be different at the end of beta, it will go trough many changes, developing strats now and expecting for them to still be usable at the actual launch, or not needing change again, that's just ignorant thinking
On February 26 2010 11:26 Zealotdriver wrote: I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
On February 26 2010 11:26 Zealotdriver wrote: I'm sad to see Blizzard undermine the Protoss like this. All the strategy development that's been done by Day 9 and others is all for nothing with these radical balancing changes.
Dude its the beta. When the retail game is released it wont even be the same game that were playing now. It's going to undergo dozens and dozens of changes. You think strategy development in the last 7 days will carry over to retail way down the line? lol.
On February 26 2010 11:19 killstereo wrote: Yeah, I'd rather have Arbiters too, but I wish they had tried to find a new role for the mothership instead of just a replacement for an old one.
Bring Arb's back, make the Mothership something else to worry about!
What really kinda bit, even though the Mothership was actually LESS useful than Arbiters, was that they nerfed it.
Why is the mothership less useful than an arbiter?
First, you could only have one (a single arbiter could cloak several other air and/or ground units, such as Carriers or Void Rays).
Second, you needed greater support than even several Arbiters.
The one useful ability that the Mothership has that the Arbiter lacked is the ability to cloak *ground* units (Stalkers and Colossi in particular); however, a Mothership also needs Stalkers and Colossi for protection.
The big reason that Protoss players in fact WANT the Arbiter back is that it didn't have the one-only self-nerf that the Mothership has.
Unless they are going to bring the Arbiter back, they should have left the Mothership completely alone.
The one useful ability that the Mothership has that the Arbiter lacked is the ability to cloak *ground* units (Stalkers and Colossi in particular); however, a Mothership also needs Stalkers and Colossi for protection.
On February 26 2010 11:19 killstereo wrote: Yeah, I'd rather have Arbiters too, but I wish they had tried to find a new role for the mothership instead of just a replacement for an old one.
Bring Arb's back, make the Mothership something else to worry about!
What really kinda bit, even though the Mothership was actually LESS useful than Arbiters, was that they nerfed it.
Why is the mothership less useful than an arbiter?
First, you could only have one (a single arbiter could cloak several other air and/or ground units, such as Carriers or Void Rays).
Second, you needed greater support than even several Arbiters.
The one useful ability that the Mothership has that the Arbiter lacked is the ability to cloak *ground* units (Stalkers and Colossi in particular); however, a Mothership also needs Stalkers and Colossi for protection.
The big reason that Protoss players in fact WANT the Arbiter back is that it didn't have the one-only self-nerf that the Mothership has.
Unless they are going to bring the Arbiter back, they should have left the Mothership completely alone.
I don't think nerfing the mothership matters much. It's still a helpful unit but not something you should base your gameplan around. So as long as it's still useful I think it's fine.
That's insane. Mothership recall is going to be way more ridiculous than Arbiter's ever was, not only due to increased radius, but:
1) the Mothership is beefier, letting you get better positioning on your recalls (whereas turrets put Arbiters in a pinch)
2) No mines. A big tool in the Terran arsenal for softening recalls was mining up your base so that a lot of a recall gets blown up just as it lands. That doesn't happen anymore. You've got to deal with the full-blown recall every time.
3) Better unit pathing (e.g. units being bunched closer together) means you can fit more units in a recall.
Temporal Rift: This ability has been removed from the game. Wormhole Transit: This ability has been removed from the game.
RECALL IS BACK! WOOT
gateway The build time of this building has increased from 50 to 65.
What?
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
That looks quite a lot like a radius of 6, so it would mean that this one is likely true:
On February 26 2010 10:48 JoshSuth wrote: Potential additional info posted by a user on the Battle.net beta forums.
Protoss * Feedback costs 50 energy, no cooldown and has a range of 9. * Mass Recall costs 100 energy, and has a radius of 6.5. * All units cannot move, attack, or cast for a period of 2 seconds before and after Mass Recall.
Terran * Thor splash damage increased from 3 to 5.
Zerg * Infested Terrans can spawn up to 3 units away. * Neural Parasite has graphics for a tentacle. * Fungal Growth damage changed from 1.25 to 2.25. * Air-based cocoons gained armor.
Note: leeched from the data files. I make no claims to absolute accuracy or completeness.
Lmao. I'm back into Battle.net now. There's a button that says "Patch Notes" but it takes you to that thread on the Battle.net beta forums with nothing in it. =P
God damnit. Infested terran is back... And it is useful too, god damnit. 25 energy per terran, each terran moves slowly and does 5 damage per hit. Each one lasts about 30 seconds. Some idiots are going to like the fact that they make the unit viable and then it's going to stick, I just know it.
Neural parasite is more interesting now, you take control of a unit and it spits out your sucker which graples onto them for the duration of the spell. Costs 50 energy. Works on all enemies now. You can assinate units now by mind controlling them and spawning a few infested terrans to waste them.
Obviously fungal spore does the damage mentioned in the patch, 36 damage. I didn't think to test it before I rage quit.
On February 26 2010 11:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote: uh reapers do MORE dmg per second? How is this a fix?
Because they do less damage per attack, it means if moving whilst attacking should be less effective, so if you have a couple of stalkers/marines/zerglings keeping them on their toes then they shouldn't be able to deal that much damage. However, if you let them just stand there and attack then obviously you're going to lose a lot.
I was hoping they would do something about making Siege Tanks more viable. Maybe it would make SC2 too much like SC1, but I miss dem tanks. You can't use them effectively against Toss any more ;_;
Well, you can now chain Neural Parasites on an enemy worker to make them build a Command Center or Nexus. However, any units you build of your newly controlled race are still within your 200 pop cap. I don't see this being a huge deal in competitive play, but what about in ZvZ? Drop an infestor behind their supply lines, neural parasite a bunch of drones, and use them to build sunken crawlers? I think they should just make this ability a permanent mind control on biological units.
On February 26 2010 12:05 FictionJV wrote: give it time, the beta has been out for 1 week, you can't expect them to do everything in 1 single patch.
If you feel that Siege tanks are really underpowered, send constructive feedback to blizzard about it.
That's a good point, actually. For some reason it feels like the beta's been out for a long time, probably because I've spent so much time obsessing over it lol. Time to stop complaining and be constructive.
As for the person who commented on roaches not getting nerfed, are they really still a big problem? I know Terran can typically counter them now, but are Toss still struggling with them?
wow it is difficult to watch old replays now. I was just trying to find a game to show a mate and every time you load on old replay it has to load the old version, then it has to load the current version again before showing you the map list. It would be good if they allowed you to stay in the old version the whole time instead of getting a million load screens. I'm only up to 42 of inReach's 100 games. This is a pain in the arse between each one now lol.
The changes aren't that big, I'm just not sure why they are adding more incredible spells to the mothership, increasing the necessity of building one and the reliance on a sole unit. Spread that shit out
Just improve the micro mechanics, tweak a few more units, add the lurker back, remove the mule and other stupid macro mechanics that just make the game boring and don't add much depth, tweak again, get rid of auto-split because that will be annoying when trying to send peons to a certain mineral patch to avoid attacks, tweak some more, make sure those micro mechanics are good again, and we might have a good game on our hands here.
On February 26 2010 12:05 FictionJV wrote: give it time, the beta has been out for 1 week, you can't expect them to do everything in 1 single patch.
If you feel that Siege tanks are really underpowered, send constructive feedback to blizzard about it.
Agreed. People are asking for more and more changes that cant happen all in one patch. Also, just because you don't focus on a particular unit doesnt mean it wont be affected by the changing of others.
not sure i agree with giving HT feedback though , unless it's range is small it seems a little too powerful a spell to be giving out willy nilly to a unit P will have a number of
On February 26 2010 12:34 PobTheCad wrote: not sure i agree with giving HT feedback though , unless it's range is small it seems a little too powerful a spell to be giving out willy nilly to a unit P will have a number of
i think this is exactly why they gave it out, many P users were complaining about HT being not worth the tech and how robobay units were better in every respect.
On February 26 2010 12:26 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Nice changes overall.
Just improve the micro mechanics, tweak a few more units, add the lurker back, remove the mule and other stupid macro mechanics that just make the game boring and don't add much depth, tweak again, get rid of auto-split because that will be annoying when trying to send peons to a certain mineral patch to avoid attacks, tweak some more, make sure those micro mechanics are good again, and we might have a good game on our hands here.
Good god lads, I think he's onto something here!!!
On February 26 2010 12:03 GrizzlyAdam wrote: I was hoping they would do something about making Siege Tanks more viable. Maybe it would make SC2 too much like SC1, but I miss dem tanks. You can't use them effectively against Toss any more ;_;
I disagree, I use tanks against Protoss a fair bit actually. they aren't your staple unit, but it never hurts to roll with 6-10 in your army in most cases. Especially for me when my main strat is M/M's with Medivacs and Vikings if needed. Microing back and crawling forward to pick off collosus is mighty nasty! Thors are nice but jesus they are expensive, and I feel like they are just target fired down. These big beefy units in SC2 frustrate me....
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
Why the fuck would you nerf the roach??? It's fine as is. Loving the tunneling ability. If anything the Reaper needs nerfing against building attacks. Don't actually understand what they did with the reaper? Decreased its attack but increased it's attack rate as wel canceling out that last part...
Feedback vs Mothership... if it ever came to that in PvP Feedback vs HT Feedback vs Ghost
There are also a lot of Terran units that use Energy. Feedback could be used to finish off the unit or just drain the energy, but they all have too much HP to be one shotted with any regularity.
Those are really the best uses I can see now. Unless of course infestors actually become used, but who knows :/
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
Why the fuck would you nerf the roach??? It's fine as is. Loving the tunneling ability. If anything the Reaper needs nerfing against building attacks. Don't actually understand what they did with the reaper? Decreased its attack but increased it's attack rate as wel canceling out that last part...
It was explained earlier. When you are microing your reapers and attacking once then moving, then attacking, they do less damage (30) but when they just sit there NOT moving or running away they do slightly higher damage than before. It basically allows units to chase them and take less damage due to it being reduced.
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
Why the fuck would you nerf the roach??? It's fine as is. Loving the tunneling ability. If anything the Reaper needs nerfing against building attacks. Don't actually understand what they did with the reaper? Decreased its attack but increased it's attack rate as wel canceling out that last part...
It was explained earlier. When you are microing your reapers and attacking once then moving, then attacking, they do less damage (30) but when they just sit there NOT moving or running away they do slightly higher damage than before. It basically allows units to chase them and take less damage due to it being reduced.
Didn't understand that one bit.... You mean reapers attack changes on the move but does more when stationary?
On February 26 2010 12:16 Nal_rAwr wrote: this is crazy
sc2 about to release, all these big changes this late in the game
indecisiveness + procrastination = VERY bad rts
its blizzard lolz, game isnt close to perfect, thus changes need to be made
Not to mention, I'm not sure beta can ever be called "close to release", and virtually all games undergo noticeable change between beta and release.
Haven't almost all Blizzard betas taken 6 months+?
On February 26 2010 13:09 WhiteKnight wrote: Didn't understand that one bit.... You mean reapers attack changes on the move but does more when stationary?
The idea is when you're hitting and running, how fast you make attacks isn't based on your attack speed, but on how often you can afford to turn around and fire (determined by your movement). Reapers standing and firing do more damage, but since their move speed is the same as before, their dps when doing hit and run attacks (which is certainly less than their stand and fire rate) is reduced.
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
Why the fuck would you nerf the roach??? It's fine as is. Loving the tunneling ability. If anything the Reaper needs nerfing against building attacks. Don't actually understand what they did with the reaper? Decreased its attack but increased it's attack rate as wel canceling out that last part...
It was explained earlier. When you are microing your reapers and attacking once then moving, then attacking, they do less damage (30) but when they just sit there NOT moving or running away they do slightly higher damage than before. It basically allows units to chase them and take less damage due to it being reduced.
Didn't understand that one bit.... You mean reapers attack changes on the move but does more when stationary?
Reaper The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8.
So when a reaper only shoots 1 shot, he does 10 less damage than before. So, when you are running away from zealots, you turn shoot once, then click away to continue running you are doing less damage to that zealot than before (10 less per reaper) The attack delay doesnt come into play while moving/shooting because you are only shooting 1 volley and then moving again.
However, the attack delay comes into play when you are doing more than 1 volley at a unit or building without moving away. So being stationary they do slightly more damage, but while moving their damage is reduced.
On February 26 2010 10:39 sob3k wrote: DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS!?!?!?
Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
I really like how this lasts longer, but isn't permanent (the infestor probably won't live that long, but it will make for some entertaining infestor-hunting games). I would definitely use this more now if I were a zerg.
proxy 2gate in terran's main was pretty much unbeatable in my experiences, especially on maps like desert oasis where they could pylon outside of your main; if you immediately put all of your scvs on a single gate, you wouldn't kill it. He'd get 2 zlots out and your scvs couldn't possibly kill the zlots. So now terran has more time to scout the proxy, and more time to make a bunker in response.
I don't understand the reaper change, but whatever.
Vikings' changes I assume are to make them more competetive against mutas.
Sad that colos weren't made a little weaker, but whatever.
I like hts having feedback.
Mothership changes are ok, they're making it more of a support unit and/or a riskier investment of a lot of money and less of a YOU JUST COMPLETED EXODIAH THE FORBIDDEN ONE insta win thing. It's not effective as quickly, and can't just vanish from battle to the safety of its base (or a random pylon, w/e).
On February 26 2010 10:02 Spartan wrote: How the fuck does the Reaper tweaked, and the Roach not even one bit?!?!?!?!?
Why the fuck would you nerf the roach??? It's fine as is. Loving the tunneling ability. If anything the Reaper needs nerfing against building attacks. Don't actually understand what they did with the reaper? Decreased its attack but increased it's attack rate as wel canceling out that last part...
It was explained earlier. When you are microing your reapers and attacking once then moving, then attacking, they do less damage (30) but when they just sit there NOT moving or running away they do slightly higher damage than before. It basically allows units to chase them and take less damage due to it being reduced.
Didn't understand that one bit.... You mean reapers attack changes on the move but does more when stationary?
Reaper The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8.
So when a reaper only shoots 1 shot, he does 10 less damage than before. So, when you are running away from zealots, you turn shoot once, then click away to continue running you are doing less damage to that zealot than before (10 less per reaper) The attack delay doesnt come into play while moving/shooting because you are only shooting 1 volley and then moving again.
However, the attack delay comes into play when you are doing more than 1 volley at a unit or building without moving away. So being stationary they do slightly more damage, but while moving their damage is reduced.
The D-8 Charges are for building, so all units are still getting hit for the same amount. This nerf was only for against hit and run to buildings.
I mean its okay they nerfed the mothership, good thing they removed wormhole transit.. shit was ridiculous. But it can recall now?-_- Come on T_T and its still 400/400....
Why don't they just replace the Mothership with the Arbiter?
don't you guys feel like the arbiter would fit much better? I mean, at least to me, the mothership seems like way more of a single player unit. It doesn't really make sense for a protoss mothership to be on the frontlines of battle. They should just put that on singleplayer, make it bigger and more badass, and bring the arbiter for multiplayer....
I still feel though that mutas and roaches are still very strong and need to be nerfed slightly. I would say remove the regeneration upgrade for roaches and decrease the hp of mutas to 110.
Terrans for the time being are the weakest race so theres nothing you can nerf with them although I like the changes to the viking, hopefully its gonna help more vs mutas now. Despite all of this, marines are still really really weak and it doesn't feel like they are the backbone of the terran army anymore which kinda sucks. Against mutas they are terrible and hopefully they will become stronger should mutas be nerfed. Other than that, I would recommend decreasing the energy cost for hunter seekers and decreasing its upgrade time.
I like the changes for toss very much, Considering how fast you can get the mothership removing temporal rift and wormhole transit is a good thing. I still don't really like the mass recall though. Unlike its previous 2 abilities which were new to the game, the mass recall is very unoriginal. Besides, the mothership requires support and it won't move out on its own therefore the ability is not very useful in mothership rushes.
The best thing to do with the mothership is to give it the ability to warp units or groups of units to the nearest nexus. I think that would be a more useful ability especially when you wanna save certain units.
I like the change to Neural Parasite At least the infestor will/could be a priority target now. By adding the channel part, I take it it can not cast this while burrowed? Can it channel it while burrowed?
Hydra with infestor back up viable against protoss now that Zerg got a way to counter colossus?
Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Most of my games were based around the Mothership. It was the only thing that helped deal with how overpowered T and Z are. If they are going to nerf it THIS bad they should have allowed making multiple motherships. Now we are stuck with this awkward and slow unit that takes an eternity to build. We have to wait for 200/200 energy to have a very poweful attack (Mass recall + Vortex). It's going to be very hard to turtle with this unit until 200/200... at least with arbiters we could use one or many to recall and others to statis. We are now limited to only one big slow vulnerable arbiter. Not only that but our GATES take longer to build? Is this so we die to roach rush every time if we don't make multiple cannons at our cliff or something? ... =/
On February 26 2010 15:47 G.s)NarutO wrote: I'm at work so I cant test it, but can anyone check if the replays still work=?
I cant get replays to work anymore (dont have key) =/
The replays were made using an old version of the exe, so they don't work in the new one. SC2 appears to save the exe's from older versions though, for replay compatibility. I think the right one should be in Versions/base13891/sc2.exe
ROFL on some peoples responses and understanding of the patchnotes. based on this thread you can already tell what people will be good in SC2 and what people will suck.
On February 26 2010 11:35 FrozenArbiter wrote: Uh, arbiters in SC1 CAN cloak ground units... Am I not reading what you are saying correctly?
Arbies could cloak ground units, but not buildings. (The building-cloak makes the Mothership useful aas a defensive/base-defense deployment; Arbies are more tactical.)
Unless they are going to allow you to build more than one (as you could with Arbiters), the Mothership nerf was pointless (unless you just wanted to have it not be deployed at all). True; with the big nerfing, it will be deployed far less (cost is way up, and damage it deals, and abilities it has, are way down compared to the increased cost), deployment, even before the nerf, was chancey (if you didn't give it adequate support) unless you deployed it defensively.
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Most of my games were based around the Mothership. It was the only thing that helped deal with how overpowered T and Z are. If they are going to nerf it THIS bad they should have allowed making multiple motherships. Now we are stuck with this awkward and slow unit that takes an eternity to build. We have to wait for 200/200 energy to have a very poweful attack (Mass recall + Vortex). It's going to be very hard to turtle with this unit until 200/200... at least with arbiters we could use one or many to recall and others to statis. We are now limited to only one big slow vulnerable arbiter. Not only that but our GATES take longer to build? Is this so we die to roach rush every time if we don't make multiple cannons at our cliff or something? ... =/
Disappointing patch to say the least..
Yup protosses are useless without the imba mothership.. poor old protosses..
Overall I think the balance team did a good job on this patch, glad they do not pay a lot of attention to the people on the battle.net forums.
I am not sure about the way the infestor is positioned at the moment, the channeling thing is bad enough. But it seems the mind controlled unit has to stay in a certain range of the infestor otherwise it loses control quicker than the 10 seconds. Can anyone else confirm this?
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Most of my games were based around the Mothership. It was the only thing that helped deal with how overpowered T and Z are. If they are going to nerf it THIS bad they should have allowed making multiple motherships. Now we are stuck with this awkward and slow unit that takes an eternity to build. We have to wait for 200/200 energy to have a very poweful attack (Mass recall + Vortex). It's going to be very hard to turtle with this unit until 200/200... at least with arbiters we could use one or many to recall and others to statis. We are now limited to only one big slow vulnerable arbiter. Not only that but our GATES take longer to build? Is this so we die to roach rush every time if we don't make multiple cannons at our cliff or something? ... =/
Disappointing patch to say the least..
Yup protosses are useless without the imba mothership.. poor old protosses..
Wait.. oh nm, most of the league leaders are P
SUP
How are you making a point here? Most of the league leaders did not become leaders after the patch.... most of the ones I personally know including myself used the Mothership quite a lot. Speak for yourself...
Toss is the weakest race right now as far as I can tell. The nerfing won't unable me to stay in the top of my division, but it certainly is going to make it much, much harder. I don't like feeling forced to go for quick games because I fear I'm going to get steamrolled in the late game. My main grip is with the PvZ.
I dont think most of the league leaders being P is any indication that P is stronger.. I think people just realize that P is cooler/funner at this point.. Its like saying Terran is overpowered because out of the ~10 years that BW had progaming, Terran dominated the tops at least 6-7 years (Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, Flash, could go on. Terran has always been THE TOP race on the progaming scene, with 2-3 years of zerg and 1 year of protoss (bisu/stork era)
From watching many replays, it sure looks like zerg is the strongest. and David Kim proves that when he plays full strength.
But of course, since people need a race to pick on, they will always be picking on protoss. Its just like the foreigner scene in BW, everyone picks on protoss, its just carrying over. Yet when the #1 player in the world is Zerg, it makes it a moot point.
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Most of my games were based around the Mothership. It was the only thing that helped deal with how overpowered T and Z are. If they are going to nerf it THIS bad they should have allowed making multiple motherships. Now we are stuck with this awkward and slow unit that takes an eternity to build. We have to wait for 200/200 energy to have a very poweful attack (Mass recall + Vortex). It's going to be very hard to turtle with this unit until 200/200... at least with arbiters we could use one or many to recall and others to statis. We are now limited to only one big slow vulnerable arbiter. Not only that but our GATES take longer to build? Is this so we die to roach rush every time if we don't make multiple cannons at our cliff or something? ... =/
Disappointing patch to say the least..
Yup protosses are useless without the imba mothership.. poor old protosses..
Wait.. oh nm, most of the league leaders are P
SUP
How are you making a point here? Most of the league leaders did not become leaders after the patch.... most of the ones I personally know including myself used the Mothership quite a lot. Speak for yourself...
Toss is the weakest race right now as far as I can tell. The nerfing won't unable me to stay in the top of my division, but it certainly is going to make it much, much harder. I don't like feeling forced to go for quick games because I fear I'm going to get steamrolled in the late game. My main grip is with the PvZ.
Well you can check this post and protosses didn't seem bad at all:
On February 25 2010 01:21 Nafaltar wrote:
Platinum League 1v1 Rankings for the EU at ~3PM GMT on the 24th of February. I have played a couple of the Rank1's and the most devastating for me personally was Draco by a decent margin.
Infestor can move while burrowed. If he can cast while burrowed, you can wait for the observer'less toss to pass your infestors, (who the hell gets observers as toss PvZ), NP the collosus/templar for instant lulz and WTF's ^_^.
They should give feedback to DT's seeing as it fits better with the lore (dark archons had feedback therefore a dark protoss discipline) and also would make dt's a bit more viable than the apprently uselss unit they are now.
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore. Most of my games were based around the Mothership. It was the only thing that helped deal with how overpowered T and Z are. If they are going to nerf it THIS bad they should have allowed making multiple motherships. Now we are stuck with this awkward and slow unit that takes an eternity to build. We have to wait for 200/200 energy to have a very poweful attack (Mass recall + Vortex). It's going to be very hard to turtle with this unit until 200/200... at least with arbiters we could use one or many to recall and others to statis. We are now limited to only one big slow vulnerable arbiter. Not only that but our GATES take longer to build? Is this so we die to roach rush every time if we don't make multiple cannons at our cliff or something? ... =/
Disappointing patch to say the least..
Yup protosses are useless without the imba mothership.. poor old protosses..
Wait.. oh nm, most of the league leaders are P
SUP
How are you making a point here? Most of the league leaders did not become leaders after the patch.... most of the ones I personally know including myself used the Mothership quite a lot. Speak for yourself...
Toss is the weakest race right now as far as I can tell. The nerfing won't unable me to stay in the top of my division, but it certainly is going to make it much, much harder. I don't like feeling forced to go for quick games because I fear I'm going to get steamrolled in the late game. My main grip is with the PvZ.
Well you can check this post and protosses didn't seem bad at all:
Platinum League 1v1 Rankings for the EU at ~3PM GMT on the 24th of February. I have played a couple of the Rank1's and the most devastating for me personally was Draco by a decent margin.
Proof that Terran is weak? top 8: 21 Protosses, 19 Zergs, 3 Randoms, 12 Terrans.
Top Ranks: 4 p, 2 z, 1 random. 0 t
can we get one of these plat division rankings for US servers?
Guys, I never said toss was the weakest since the start.. I said they were the weakest right nowas far as I can tell. This means post-patch. A good zerg seemed unbeatable mid to late game for me no matter what I was doing and that was pre-patch, so I can't even imagine how much struggle it must be now. Of course I don't mean to say that my own experience of playing the game for a week is an absolute and zerg is imbalanced, but it's definitely my feeling so far.
What I like in this patch: - HT ability change - Mothership Mass Recall added. I missed it ingame. - Infestor abilities changes
What i dont like: - Mothership Temporal Rift removed. It was rather cool ability. Maybe even cooler than Vortex. - No Roach/Hydra nerf, especially Roach - No Nydus nerf, it's so imbalanced - No Sentry changes, it kinda sucks in current build
On February 26 2010 16:45 Hollow wrote: Man, I don't even feel like playing anymore.
Can me has your key? k thx!
Seriously guys, this is the first patch in closed BETA. I know it's lame and redundant to say, but quit the whining about your scores, and test the frigging game or make room for the people who will. Just see it that way: If Protoss actually becomes hard to play in SC2, you will not be a newbie A-Mover anymore :-P
Anyone who says that reaper got buffed is forgetting that the weapon isn't on cooldown initially, thus after 1x Cooldowntime the unit has shot twice. The following table (first column = time in seconds , second = new damage done at that point of time , third = old damage done at that point of time.
So at many points at time previously the reaper even if undisturbed and being able to constantly fire was stronger then he is now. There are some timing windows where the new reaper is stronger though.
On February 26 2010 20:10 CharlieMurphy wrote: so basically reapers are better for early game bunker rush or something then?
Basically they are less "hit and run able". If you are running around and only stopping for one shot before moving again you must stop a lot more and move less to do the same damage.
In other words it's a nerf to their "harass" damage on buildings. But if they are left to just attack a building they will do the same damage.
On February 26 2010 19:53 Jenia6109 wrote: What I like in this patch: - HT ability change - Mothership Mass Recall added. I missed it ingame. - Infestor abilities changes
What i dont like: - Mothership Temporal Rift removed. It was rather cool ability. Maybe even cooler than Vortex. - No Roach/Hydra nerf, especially Roach - No Nydus nerf, it's so imbalanced - No Sentry changes, it kinda sucks in current build
posts like that show why its good that blizzard seems to do things seemi slowish.
hydra nerf? they are a 2nd tier 2 supply 90hp unti with no armor and no special ability. also a roahc nerf would be overall very heavy on the zerg atm since they are pretty 1dimensional right now and are 70% roach vs evrything. they first need to sort out how to give zerg other possibilities before they just nerf roaches.
and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
nydus while sick keep zerg somewhat onpar with all the cliffhopping,walking,blinking,dropping and warping of T&P. only time will tell if its too strong beeing a new mechanic mnost players dont even know about (hasuobs didnt even know how the mechanics of nydus were before yesterday in the esl thing)
I think it's good to see that they're willing/capable of removing/implementing stuff in SC2 and not just give Unit X more HP and Unit Y a shorter buildtime etc.
But i still think they should make more radical changes with completely removing certain Units and implementing new ones.
There are several examples of "good" units in SC2 and several examples of "bad" ones:
Good Units should have the following qualities: 1) They should be versatile. 2) They shouldn't just be built to counter another Unit(-Type). 3) They should make Micro possible and encourage it. 4) They should synergise well with other Units
Some good examples in SC2:
Reaper/Hellion/Marauder:
1) Reaper and Hellion are fast and can be used to harrass, to defend quickly, but are also good in bigger Battles. 2) They don't just counter other Units and if they're too good against a certain unit-type, you can easily balance them and because they're so versatile, you don't make them useless. 3) Hellions are very fast, they're attack has interesting Aoe you have to micro well etc. With Reapers, youc an also do nice Micro with hopping up and down a ramp etc. marauders are also nice, because you have to target as many different units as you can, to utilize the slow properly. 4) Hellions are well with Dropships, to protect tanklines etc. Marauders work well with Marines, any type of AoE-Dmg and Reapers are very good in larger groups to destroy buildings, but not as much if they're in small numbers.
Now for some bad examples (yes; I really think those units should be kicked out of SC2 immediately, because balancing won't help to make them "good") Immortal, Roach, VoidRay, Collossus: 1) All of the above Units have one certain porpuse or counter a certain amount of Units. They're slow and can't really be Utilized for other purposes than for the single one intended by Blizzard. 2) As said above, they're counter-units and balancing them won't ever do the trick to make them better Units in terms of versatility, micro-possibilities etc. 3) All of the above Units are slow and you really can't do anything else in terms of Micro than A-Move. Compare the Micro-intensity of those Units with Units from SC1 (Mutas / Shuttle+Reaver / Scourge / Spellcasters without intelligent casting / M&M's VS Lurkers / Vulture-Patrol-Button-Micro and Micro against Vulture Mines) - Those aforementioned SC2 Units just feel very slow and boring and totally not versatile compared to the excellent SC1-Units, but also the "good" Units from SC2 I've mentioned before.
I also wan't to see changes in the gamemechanics, like: - I don't have a problem with Automining and Multiple-Building-Selection, because Blizz came up with neat stuff to keep players busy in the base macroing. That was because of one reason: The SC-Community raged heavily against MBS and AA, so Blizz had to come up with something. We didn't realize how the better pathfinding, non-microable-units, non-existing mutastacking, intelligent casting etc. would affect the Micro-aspect of the game, because all we were worried about was the Macro - now we have the problem with unsatisfiying micro and that needs to be said and fixed to make SC2 a really great game.
I'm surprised they would patch the game this early. In the past they mentioned how they liked to let the players try to counter seemingly imbalanced strategies before manipulating the game themselves.
What I don't like about feedback is if it's PvP or PvT where it might be a battle of who can EMP/FB the other person's ghost/high templar first, and making that the most deciding factor in the battle.
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss
Guardian shield is a huge advantage against ranged attacks, Force field is excellent to manipulate terrain to your advantage, make a choke smaller, block out of your ramp the zealots and other units, of course you can't only use sentries against zealots, but as a support unit the sentry is excellent.
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss
I'm not too excited about Sc2 so far but i can tell you that the sentry is easily the most entairtaining and "fresh" unit. Force field is brilliant. This is one of the few new units in Sc2 that doesn't look bad and boring compared to reavers or vult.
edit: ok i understand, haven't played yet so i can't comment on the balance, just wanted to say that i love the concept
1) Reaper and Hellion are fast and can be used to harrass, to defend quickly, but are also good in bigger Battles. 2) They don't just counter other Units and if they're too good against a certain unit-type, you can easily balance them and because they're so versatile, you don't make them useless. 3) Hellions are very fast, they're attack has interesting Aoe you have to micro well etc. With Reapers, youc an also do nice Micro with hopping up and down a ramp etc. marauders are also nice, because you have to target as many different units as you can, to utilize the slow properly. 4) Hellions are well with Dropships, to protect tanklines etc. Marauders work well with Marines, any type of AoE-Dmg and Reapers are very good in larger groups to destroy buildings, but not as much if they're in small numbers.
Now for some bad examples (yes; I really think those units should be kicked out of SC2 immediately, because balancing won't help to make them "good") Immortal, Roach, VoidRay, Collossus: 1) All of the above Units have one certain porpuse or counter a certain amount of Units. They're slow and can't really be Utilized for other purposes than for the single one intended by Blizzard. 2) As said above, they're counter-units and balancing them won't ever do the trick to make them better Units in terms of versatility, micro-possibilities etc. 3) All of the above Units are slow and you really can't do anything else in terms of Micro than A-Move. Compare the Micro-intensity of those Units with Units from SC1 (Mutas / Shuttle+Reaver / Scourge / Spellcasters without intelligent casting / M&M's VS Lurkers / Vulture-Patrol-Button-Micro and Micro against Vulture Mines) - Those aforementioned SC2 Units just feel very slow and boring and totally not versatile compared to the excellent SC1-Units, but also the "good" Units from SC2 I've mentioned before.
ROFL, let me guess you are terran player getting owned by these particular bad units :D Yep, marauders and reapers are totally not counter to anything, totally anything except armored, light and buildings... And yeah, we always just A move immortals or void rays to attack anything and we let collossus to go A move over the cliffs...
I don't know if it has been answered before, but did they fix the bug of workers randomly going back and attacking when you micro them through the base of your opponents?
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss
Not to mention that Sentries are your best counter to mutalisks !
About the good and bad unit post up there, The only unit I find too much of a hard counter is the Immortal. It has 'tank buster' written all over it. It does an insane amount of damage to armored units while taking little from their gigantic blast. It feels too much of a niche for me, but then again, it can serve as a tool in many occasion. It's still a fun unit, and it can't just be massed.
The collosus and void ray are quite versatile. They can be used for harassment or to back up an army. They feel more like decent cannons than just niche units.
For me, niche would be a unit that is good at only killing one type of unit and that is weak or useless against all others. That's why I took the Immortal which is the perfect counter to tanks, but since it also serves against roaches and ultralisk and thors, it can't be said to be 100% niche.
On February 26 2010 20:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: and sentries suck? its one of the most amazing units in the game.a super utility caster that deals decent dmg at range ? what not to like?
So, whats so amazing about sentries? It cant stop mass zealots in PvP, it cant make anything to zerg in tier1, and in PvT its only usefull against marines which are not the biggest danger for Protoss
Not to mention that Sentries are your best counter to mutalisks !
About the good and bad unit post up there, The only unit I find too much of a hard counter is the Immortal. It has 'tank buster' written all over it. It does an insane amount of damage to armored units while taking little from their gigantic blast. It feels too much of a niche for me, but then again, it can serve as a tool in many occasion. It's still a fun unit, and it can't just be massed.
The collosus and void ray are quite versatile. They can be used for harassment or to back up an army. They feel more like decent cannons than just niche units.
For me, niche would be a unit that is good at only killing one type of unit and that is weak or useless against all others. That's why I took the Immortal which is the perfect counter to tanks, but since it also serves against roaches and ultralisk and thors, it can't be said to be 100% niche.
The immortal outdoes the stalker vs everything that doesn't fly in terms of cost in straight shoot outs and it is good vs everything armoured including structures. I would say that it is a quite versatile, it don't have any obvious vulnerabilities except not being able to target air.
On February 26 2010 19:53 Jenia6109 wrote: What I like in this patch: - HT ability change - Mothership Mass Recall added. I missed it ingame. - Infestor abilities changes
What i dont like: - Mothership Temporal Rift removed. It was rather cool ability. Maybe even cooler than Vortex. - No Roach/Hydra nerf, especially Roach - No Nydus nerf, it's so imbalanced - No Sentry changes, it kinda sucks in current build
Something tells me you play Protoss. ''Boost everything in my race and nerf the others!''
Surely I can't be the only one who isn't able to download the patch through the downloader... anyone know what I can do to patch? I can't find a mirror for the patch or anything
I kept searching for the AI issues on the b.net forums where the Move commands becomes attack move-commands if they walk next to an enemy unit or gets attacked, and I only found like 2 small posts..
REALLY hope more people post about this over on b.net forums so it does get fixed.. This has to be considered a bug or i will cry irl for having the AI have priority over my own unit control..
On February 27 2010 00:02 ploy wrote: Surely I can't be the only one who isn't able to download the patch through the downloader... anyone know what I can do to patch? I can't find a mirror for the patch or anything
Finally have time to play but...
Uninstall beta. Reinstall beta. Run it once so it updates. and work from there.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/OodieM/Betapatchproof.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.imgupload.org/images/600_eu_divisons_24.02.jpg)
