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I will say it again ITT: new people to Starcraft jumping on to a competitve Starcraft site and trying to tell me that they have great ideas about how starcrAft should play. Yep all the probes drones and scvs reAding this really know where me / most of the tl community is coming from when we talk about micro macro and mechanical skill.
Most of you have no idea what you are talking about. Forming baseless opinions about what sc1 is like when you don't competitevly play it is a joke. What's worse is these same people are then comparing sc2 to sc1. How can you try and tell me with a straight face that sc2 is better if you have never played sc1 at a competative level? He'll most of you don't even have the beta.
Most of the people disagreeing with nazgul and the more senior tl membors are simply casual gamers that jump from one shiny new game to another. Pro tip- stop talking about things you do not understand.
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On February 26 2010 01:36 Misrah wrote:
I will say it again ITT: new people to Starcraft jumping on to a competitve Starcraft site and trying to tell me that they have great ideas about how starcrAft should play. Yep all the probes drones and scvs reAding this really know where me / most of the tl community is coming from when we talk about micro macro and mechanical skill.
Most of you have no idea what you are talking about. Forming baseless opinions about what sc1 is like when you don't competitevly play it is a joke. What's worse is these same people are then comparing sc2 to sc1. How can you try and tell me with a straight face that sc2 is better if you have never played sc1 at a competative level? He'll most of you don't even have the beta.
Most of the people disagreeing with nazgul and the more senior tl membors are simply casual gamers that jump from one shiny new game to another. Pro tip- stop talking about things you do not understand.
Forming baseless opinions about people when you don't know them is a joke.
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On February 26 2010 01:29 Chill wrote:
lol at people suggesting the unit ai be changed to inject micro, specifically nazgul. thats such a stupid mindset. i guarentee if the game is competitive there will be as much micro as brood war. i dont even have to play it to make this claim.
whenever anything 2 comes out, people complain how it's so much easier now, but in the end it requires more mechanical skill to play. this is true in almost every situation throughout history.
Chill halo 2 to halo 2.5 was a big step backward. Don't you agree? Or what about melle to brawl?
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On February 26 2010 01:29 Chill wrote:
lol at people suggesting the unit ai be changed to inject micro, specifically nazgul. thats such a stupid mindset. i guarentee if the game is competitive there will be as much micro as brood war. i dont even have to play it to make this claim.
whenever anything 2 comes out, people complain how it's so much easier now, but in the end it requires more mechanical skill to play. this is true in almost every situation throughout history.
You just broke a forum rule with this post!
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On February 26 2010 00:32 Squallcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:16 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:00 flabortaster wrote:
Elitist fucks... Get out. Get out now. TL does need trash like you. On February 26 2010 00:05 Squallcloud wrote:
What do the units do in BW when their path is blocked when they attack a group of unit? Well if you don't micro your zerglings well in a zvz, then the other zerglings will sit behind the others, and wait till a spot opens up. IE you are basically only fighting with half of your army, while the other half waits in line lol. That is why it is very important to always make sure that your zerglings can have the maximum surface area on the enemy. Generally the idea of an arc or concave is used, to maximize your zerglings and DPS output. Thank you  Is this point the only complaint about micro? It's not enough to say the game suck in my opinion. PS : This thread sounds like the Wow forums with the war casual against hardcore gamer. It's funny since there's some sort of general opinion the Sc player is superior to the Wow player
Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW
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On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW
How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd.
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On February 26 2010 01:46 Bane_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd.
Because Starcraft: Broodwar (I refuse to call it SC1 because SC2 more like WC4 MIRITE) is HARDCORE and you're just a NOOB who doesn't KNOW anything MAN, GOD. I bet you're some sort of CASUAL gamer who's never even HEARD of Starcraft 1 and just plays WORLD OF WARCRAFT because you're such a NOOB.
Err, sorry, I think I caught something.
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On February 26 2010 01:29 Chill wrote:
i guarentee if the game is competitive there will be as much micro as brood war. i dont even have to play it to make this claim.
This part was very stupid. Almost to the level of bendez posts.
Micro is very limited in SC2 and some stuff is kinda retarded (like zergling chasing perfectly a worker so you can't scout at all). The game will be more revolved on builds, timings and strategy. It's not as entertaining as scbw if you watch it but still it should be fun to play.
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On February 26 2010 01:46 Bane_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd.
they can not distance themselves when a game is so easy to play. I mean MBS and automine coupled with improved ai means that everyone will be playing perfect Starcraft with like 150apm lol
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We should think how exactly the SC2 AI should be changed, so we can actually get some micro in this game.
Is it me or the units box size is much smaller than their real size?? That should explain why the units are clumping in what looks a more exaggerated way than they should.
If this is the case, while Blizzard managed to make the units move/attack more smoothly in a formation, they also removed some nice micro possibilities what made SC1/W3 a different game from RA3 for example.
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I don't think that the pathing has to be "dumbed down" in order for there to be more exciting micro opportunities.
For example, some of the most micro intensive units in BW were that way because of the way they were designed. Vultures were very fast, very fragile, and there attack was came in largeer intervals. You got a huge benefit from intense micro not because of bad pathing but because of the way the unit worked. Same with mutas and reavers.
I think the solution is not to clamor for the same ai mechanics, but rather to ask blizzard to design units that benefit from micro. A lot of the new units in the game like thors, immortals, roaches, broodlords, etc. Are made in such a way that it isn't very hard to maximize their effectiveness.
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On February 26 2010 01:53 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:29 Chill wrote:
i guarentee if the game is competitive there will be as much micro as brood war. i dont even have to play it to make this claim. This part was very stupid. Almost to the level of bendez posts. Micro is very limited in SC2 and some stuff is kinda retarded (like zergling chasing perfectly a worker so you can't scout at all). The game will be more revolved on builds, timings and strategy. It's as entertaining as scbw if you watch it but still it should be fun to play.
How do you not notice his post is over the top-sarcastic and is simply made to troll people?
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On February 26 2010 01:10 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community Hey kimberly, I am just writing this to you wondering when you would like to meet to work on our presentation. Feel free to give me a call anytime At 19202464963 hope to hear from you soon Ben For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. Glad to see your begining to understand. And yes I am 100 percent serious. I don't think you know anything. And considering you probably have not played a true game of Starcraft in quite some time your opinions are out dated. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. Glad you are starting to understand. I don't care what you have to say because you do not understand sc. Then you make baseless opinions about me And tl when you probably just found this site today. Yes I am 100 percent serious.
the thing is ur jumping to conlusions.
u say i dont understand sc which is totaly not true. i didnt stumble across this site yesterday. i just didnt bother posting/registering because i didnt play sc much myself. i however followed the sc pro scene, watched vods, read strategic guides and so on for at least 5 years.
on the other hand i have nearly 10 years of experience in playing RTS games competetive, be it sc (as mentioned not much), wc3, dow1/2, c&n series, btfm the list goes on.
u sir are just a sad because u judge people without knowing them. i don't know u too, but did i ignore ur posts or opinion? no, i read them and said i think u are wrong.
perhaps the way i did so wasn't the nicest but sure its better then what u are doing.
so get off ur horse.
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On February 26 2010 01:46 Bane_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd.
Isn't it a little intuitive that the easier a game is to play the less distancing there is from pros?
On February 26 2010 02:02 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:10 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community Hey kimberly, I am just writing this to you wondering when you would like to meet to work on our presentation. Feel free to give me a call anytime At 19202464963 hope to hear from you soon Ben For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. Glad to see your begining to understand. And yes I am 100 percent serious. I don't think you know anything. And considering you probably have not played a true game of Starcraft in quite some time your opinions are out dated. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. Glad you are starting to understand. I don't care what you have to say because you do not understand sc. Then you make baseless opinions about me And tl when you probably just found this site today. Yes I am 100 percent serious. the thing is ur jumping to conlusions. u say i dont understand sc which is totaly not true. i didnt stumble across this site yesterday. i just didnt bother posting/registering because i didnt play sc much myself. i however followed the sc pro scene, watched vods, read strategic guides and so on for at least 5 years. on the other hand i have nearly 10 years of experience in playing RTS games competetive, be it sc (as mentioned not much), wc3, dow1/2, c&n series, btfm the list goes on. u sir are just a sad because u judge people without knowing them. i don't know u too, but did i ignore ur posts or opinion? no, i read them and said i think u are wrong. perhaps the way i did so wasn't the nicest but sure its better then what u are doing. so get off ur horse.
No matter how much you follow the pro scene, if you don't play the game a lot you wont understand, thx
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On February 26 2010 02:03 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:46 Bane_ wrote:On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd. Isn't it a little intuitive that the easier a game is to play the less distancing there is from pros?
Running is easy but I don't see you in the Olympics.
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On February 26 2010 02:02 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:10 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community Hey kimberly, I am just writing this to you wondering when you would like to meet to work on our presentation. Feel free to give me a call anytime At 19202464963 hope to hear from you soon Ben For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. Glad to see your begining to understand. And yes I am 100 percent serious. I don't think you know anything. And considering you probably have not played a true game of Starcraft in quite some time your opinions are out dated. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. Glad you are starting to understand. I don't care what you have to say because you do not understand sc. Then you make baseless opinions about me And tl when you probably just found this site today. Yes I am 100 percent serious. the thing is ur jumping to conlusions. u say i dont understand sc which is totaly not true. i didnt stumble across this site yesterday. i just didnt bother posting/registering because i didnt play sc much myself. i however followed the sc pro scene, watched vods, read strategic guides and so on for at least 5 years. on the other hand i have nearly 10 years of experience in playing RTS games competetive, be it sc (as mentioned not much), wc3, dow1/2, c&n series, btfm the list goes on. u sir are just a sad because u judge people without knowing them. i don't know u too, but did i ignore ur posts or opinion? no, i read them and said i think u are wrong. perhaps the way i did so wasn't the nicest but sure its better then what u are doing. so get off ur horse.
Just a friendly warning--it's against the rules of this forum to disrespect your elders http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06
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On February 26 2010 02:02 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 01:10 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community Hey kimberly, I am just writing this to you wondering when you would like to meet to work on our presentation. Feel free to give me a call anytime At 19202464963 hope to hear from you soon Ben For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. Glad to see your begining to understand. And yes I am 100 percent serious. I don't think you know anything. And considering you probably have not played a true game of Starcraft in quite some time your opinions are out dated. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. Glad you are starting to understand. I don't care what you have to say because you do not understand sc. Then you make baseless opinions about me And tl when you probably just found this site today. Yes I am 100 percent serious. the thing is ur jumping to conlusions. u say i dont understand sc which is totaly not true. i didnt stumble across this site yesterday. i just didnt bother posting/registering because i didnt play sc much myself. i however followed the sc pro scene, watched vods, read strategic guides and so on for at least 5 years. on the other hand i have nearly 10 years of experience in playing RTS games competetive, be it sc (as mentioned not much), wc3, dow1/2, c&n series, btfm the list goes on. u sir are just a sad because u judge people without knowing them. i don't know u too, but did i ignore ur posts or opinion? no, i read them and said i think u are wrong. perhaps the way i did so wasn't the nicest but sure its better then what u are doing. so get off ur horse.
so you have zero sc experience and you admit it. Also no other rts does not make you an expert. Sc is not an rts. It is the best. It is art. It has a pro league for 10 plus years. Nothing else compares.
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On February 26 2010 02:07 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 02:02 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 01:10 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community Hey kimberly, I am just writing this to you wondering when you would like to meet to work on our presentation. Feel free to give me a call anytime At 19202464963 hope to hear from you soon Ben For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. Glad to see your begining to understand. And yes I am 100 percent serious. I don't think you know anything. And considering you probably have not played a true game of Starcraft in quite some time your opinions are out dated. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. Glad you are starting to understand. I don't care what you have to say because you do not understand sc. Then you make baseless opinions about me And tl when you probably just found this site today. Yes I am 100 percent serious. the thing is ur jumping to conlusions. u say i dont understand sc which is totaly not true. i didnt stumble across this site yesterday. i just didnt bother posting/registering because i didnt play sc much myself. i however followed the sc pro scene, watched vods, read strategic guides and so on for at least 5 years. on the other hand i have nearly 10 years of experience in playing RTS games competetive, be it sc (as mentioned not much), wc3, dow1/2, c&n series, btfm the list goes on. u sir are just a sad because u judge people without knowing them. i don't know u too, but did i ignore ur posts or opinion? no, i read them and said i think u are wrong. perhaps the way i did so wasn't the nicest but sure its better then what u are doing. so get off ur horse. so you have zero sc experience and you admit it. Also no other rts does not make you an expert. Sc is not an rts. It is the best. It is art. It has a pro league for 10 plus years. Nothing else compares. Nothing else compares... SC2 has not hope then I guess.
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On February 26 2010 02:06 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 02:03 SubtleArt wrote:On February 26 2010 01:46 Bane_ wrote:On February 26 2010 01:41 SubtleArt wrote:Much improved AI is the complaint about micro, yes. Also no1s saying the game sucks, just that the improvements make it too easy to micro, (and thus do not deem SC an esport), and ultimately too easy to have the same competitive atmosphere as BW How do we know this already though (the beta has been out a week...)? It may well be easier to play at a reasonably competitive level but there are still going to be ways for the top players to distance themselves from the crowd. Isn't it a little intuitive that the easier a game is to play the less distancing there is from pros? Running is easy but I don't see you in the Olympics.
Because theres more to it than just move one foot forward and then the next. If you understood the technique, training, stamina, and physical conditioning required to compete at the olympics then you'd understand how hard it is to compete at that level and the dedication required.
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